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WarwickGrad
08-04-2010, 22:40 PM
i've served an s8 notice, with 17 days notice to allow for postage

it expires on the 23rd april - can i submit the papers to the court on that day? or does it have to be the following day?

am i right in syaing i need to fill in these forms to submit to court? forms N5 and N119

if so, does anyone have the online link for me to do this? is the cost the same as the s21 (£150)?

thanks!

WarwickGrad
12-04-2010, 18:16 PM
hi

does anyone have any advice about my last thread?

i've been through the site and came across this web page:
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/agreements.htm

what forms from all these should i submit for rent arrears (ground 8, 10 and 11)?

and can i submit them to the court the day the 17 daynotice expires, the 23rd april?

thanks

jeffrey
13-04-2010, 09:36 AM
Grounds 8/10/11 are found in Schedule 2 to the Housing Act 1988. To use them, serve a Notice under s.8.
[And forget the word 'arrears'; what you need to show is rent unpaid, not the same thing at all.]

WarwickGrad
24-04-2010, 17:14 PM
is it easier and cheaper to apply for the s8 possession order online via pcol?

does it take you through both the n5 and n119 forms online?

thanks

WarwickGrad
24-04-2010, 18:03 PM
hi jeffrey

just going back to this thread

for ground 8 explanation in the section 8 court possession documents i've written: 'there are 12 weeks rent arrears'

should i have written 12 weeks rent remains unpaid?

didnt realise that there's a difference betwwen arrears and rent unpaid!

jeffrey
25-04-2010, 21:38 PM
Yes, because that's what the Act requires L to show.

WarwickGrad
25-04-2010, 21:57 PM
does everyone agree with jeffrey's htread i wonder?

i thought arrears is the same as rent unpaid

if the rent were paid, there would be no arrears

if not paid, there would be arrears

jeffrey
25-04-2010, 22:08 PM
No, they're not the same. Parliament expressly used different terminology*.
Example:
1. Rent is due on first day of each month, in advance.
2. All rent was fully paid up to and inc.the end of February.
3. On 1 March and 1 April, nothing is paid.
4. When does T first owe two months' rent? On 2 April
5. When is T first two months in arrears? On 30 April/ 1 May.

*- here's ground 8 in full, with my underlinings:

Both at the date of the service of the notice under section 8 of this Act relating to the proceedings for possession and at the date of the hearing:
(a) if rent is payable weekly or fortnightly, at least eight weeks’ rent is unpaid;
(b) if rent is payable monthly, at least two months’ rent is unpaid;
(c) if rent is payable quarterly, at least one quarter’s rent is more than three months in arrears; and
(d) if rent is payable yearly, at least three months’ rent is more than three months in arrears;
and for the purpose of this ground “rent” means rent lawfully due from the tenant.

WarwickGrad
26-04-2010, 19:21 PM
ah yes - thank you jeffrey!

i was wondering if you could help me with the 'particulars of claim for possession' form

for section 4, they are the questions:

the reasons the claimant is asking for possession is:
(a) because the defendant has not paid the rent due under the terms of the tenancy agreement (details are set below)
(b) because the tenant has failed to comply with other temrs of the tenancy
(c) because: (including any (other) statutory grounds)

i've only answer (a), as follows: 12 weeks rent (£££) remains unpaid to to date, please refer to rent statement for more details

i've left the rest blank

is this a suitable answer for (a)?

do i need to answer part (b) and (c)? the notice states grounds 8, 10 and 11

thanks v much

havensRus
26-04-2010, 20:24 PM
1. why not use PCOL (https://www.possessionclaim.gov.uk/pcol/). Price is £100, and you'll quite likely get a date earlier than if you send in the paper version.

2. potential answers to your questions. Delete as applicable and fill in figures as applicable.
4(a)
Gnd 8: The Tenant pays rent (monthy/weekly), and at least (two months/8 weeks) rent is unpaid. The (monthly/weekly) rent being (£pcm), and the total outstanding rent being £(amount owing).

Gnd 10: The Tenant owes £(amount owing) which is rent lawfully due and is unpaid on the date on which this notice is served. This is increasing at a rate of £(daily rate) per day.

4(b) Gnd 11: The Tenant has persistently delayed paying the full rent due etc.etc. inspite of reminders requesting full payment.

WarwickGrad
27-04-2010, 08:54 AM
thank you havenRus

1. i'm going to try pcol today - do i need access to a scanner to scan in the AST/ notice etc.?

2. another thing i should add, i am the agent - i am allowed to evict the tenant this way arent i? i'm including a land registry of the landlord and the agreement with the owner that i'm managing the property

3. or shall i exclude this and leave out the owner of the property to simplify matters? would the court waste their time looking into who the actual owner is? the tenant assumes its me - the contract only has my name as landlord

Snorkerz
27-04-2010, 08:59 AM
You don't ned a scanner, the paperwork is submitted by mail or at court.

This situation regarding the tenant not knowing that you aren't the landlord sounds a bit dodgy and I feel could come back and bite you on the b*m. I am sure others will be along shortly to explore that.

WarwickGrad
27-04-2010, 09:02 AM
thanks

the owner is my uncle

he's never got involved tho, i've always managed the property

WarwickGrad
27-04-2010, 10:53 AM
hi

i'm doing the pcol online as advised

1. for the reasons for possession shall i cut and paste the sentences below?
Gnd 8: The Tenant pays rent (monthy/weekly), and at least (two months/8 weeks) rent is unpaid. The (monthly/weekly) rent being (£pcm), and the total outstanding rent being £(amount owing).
Gnd 10: The Tenant owes £(amount owing) which is rent lawfully due and is unpaid on the date on which this notice is served. This is increasing at a rate of £(daily rate) per day.
4(b) Gnd 11: The Tenant has persistently delayed paying the full rent due etc.etc. inspite of reminders requesting full payment.

2. should i write anything for recovery steps already taken? should i mentioned the 16 days noctice i served on the tenant? or should i only fill this in if i have previously put in a claim for possession?

3. why does it ask for financial information from myself (the claimant)?

jeffrey
27-04-2010, 10:55 AM
You'll need more details re the rent. When lodging any s.8 Notice, L needs to ensure that it meets all statutory requirements. For instance, it must:
a. list the ground(s) on which L is to rely;
b. set-out the text of the ground(s) IN FULL; and
c. state explicitly what T has done (or omitted to do) that is in breach.

So a rent-based s.8 needs full schedules showing what T:
a. should have paid (and when); as against
b. actually paid (and when).

WarwickGrad
27-04-2010, 11:33 AM
i've added the full text and the explanation of all the grounds on the 16 day notice i gave the tenant

do i need to repeat all this on the pcol online claim form too, where it asks for the reasons for possession?

shall i post the court the rent statement once i complete the pcol?

WarwickGrad
27-04-2010, 12:04 PM
hi

i'm filling in the pcol form and have 2 questions:

1. when asking for financial information about the claimant (myself), how should i answer this? why does it ask this anyway?

2. it asks whether i want to seek a monetary judgement against the tenant for outstanding arrears - given that my aim is to get possession of the property and that the tenant does have a lot of money, i shouldnt seek a monetary judgement right? if i chose to, would this delay the process?

thanks in advance

Ericthelobster
27-04-2010, 13:40 PM
when asking for financial information about the claimant (myself), how should i answer this? why does it ask this anyway? Not sure. really - I've never put anything in that section other than mentioning that I have issued a Section 21 notice on parallel (don't know if that helps my case but at least makes the point that even if the judge sees fit to deny the claim, it won't have a very significant effect on how long the errant tenant remains in situ!)


it asks whether i want to seek a monetary judgement against the tenant for outstanding arrears - given that my aim is to get possession of the property and that the tenant does have a lot of money, i shouldnt seek a monetary judgement right? if i chose to, would this delay the process?The point of PCOL is that you can instigate repossession proceedings at the same time as claiming arrears (including your court fees), so yes you should definitely include that. It won't affect the timing of the process.

WarwickGrad
27-04-2010, 14:28 PM
thanks eric

on the smme page they ask for the reason for possession - is the following enough info for them?

Ground 8: The Tenant pays rent every 4 weeks, and at least 8 weeks rent is unpaid. The weekly rent being £700, and the total outstanding rent being £2100.
Gnd 10: The Tenant owes £2100 which is rent lawfully due and is unpaid on the date on which this notice is served. This is increasing at a rate of £25 per day.
Ground 11: The Tenant has persistently delayed paying the full rent due, inspite of reminders requesting full payment. No rent has been paid at all in this case since the start of the tenancy.

thesaint
27-04-2010, 16:06 PM
thanks eric

on the smme page they ask for the reason for possession - is the following enough info for them?

Ground 8: The Tenant pays rent every 4 weeks, and at least 8 weeks rent is unpaid. The weekly rent being £700, and the total outstanding rent being £2100.
Gnd 10: The Tenant owes £2100 which is rent lawfully due and is unpaid on the date on which this notice is served. This is increasing at a rate of £25 per day.
Ground 11: The Tenant has persistently delayed paying the full rent due, inspite of reminders requesting full payment. No rent has been paid at all in this case since the start of the tenancy.

Are you sure?

WarwickGrad
27-04-2010, 16:14 PM
mistake already! good thing i'm getting advice from this site!

i'm swapping the red lined sentance with:
the weekly rent is £175 and the total outstanding rent being £2100

is that paragraph in my last thread enough? i dont need to give the full text of grounds 8, 10 and 11 do i? as i did when i served the notice?

thanks

davidjohnbutton
27-04-2010, 16:28 PM
EXTREMELY IMPORTANT YOU MUST INSERT AT SECTION 4 OF THE N119 THE FOLLOWING WORDS

"Possession is sought under ground 8, and/or 10 and/or 11 of Schedule 2 Housing Act 1988 as amended by Housing Act 1996"

Fail to put this in and the judge will either strike out the claim or will suspend the possesion order.

WarwickGrad
27-04-2010, 16:33 PM
thank you david

the wording of section 4 of the n119 form is slightly different to the online pcol - the online pcol says this:
'the reason for possession'

i take it this is equivalent to section 4 of the n119 hard copy form?


so, to finanlise, this is what i have now for that section:

Possession is sought under ground 8, and/or 10 and/or 11 of Schedule 2 Housing Act 1988 as amended by Housing Act 1996

Ground 8: The Tenant pays rent every 4 weeks, and at least 8 weeks rent is unpaid. The weekly rent being £700, and the total outstanding rent being £2100.
Gnd 10: The Tenant owes £2100 which is rent lawfully due and is unpaid on the date on which this notice is served. This is increasing at a rate of £25 per day.
Ground 11: The Tenant has persistently delayed paying the full rent due, inspite of reminders requesting full payment. No rent has been paid at all in this case since the start of the tenancy.

davidjohnbutton
27-04-2010, 17:26 PM
Yes that wording is OK.

Why dont you do it all online at PCOL - its £50 cheaper and you usually get to know time and date of hearing and allocated court details immediately (or sometimes occasionally a few days later) whereas if you submit in paper format, its £150 and you have to wait for a date.

WarwickGrad
27-04-2010, 17:56 PM
thanks david

thats what i've been trying to do all day!

you mentioned this:
EXTREMELY IMPORTANT YOU MUST INSERT AT SECTION 4 OF THE N119 THE FOLLOWING WORDS

but section 4 of n119 isnt online, so it confused me a little

WarwickGrad
27-04-2010, 20:37 PM
regarding this sentance, that i have as my reasons for claiming possession:

"Possession is sought under ground 8, and/or 10 and/or 11 of Schedule 2 Housing Act 1988 as amended by Housing Act 1996"

should i have and/or? or get rid of 'and' or the 'or'

thanks

davidjohnbutton
27-04-2010, 22:28 PM
Section 4 as you say does not appear when you are filling in using pcol, its the section giving reason for wanting possession where you must use my wording.

Dont get rid of the and/or if you have served a S8 notice giving grounds 8, 10 and 11 because if ground 8 fails at hearing because tenant pays up sufficient to reduce to below 2 months/8 weeks unpaid, you may then have to rely on ground 10 and/or 11 discretionary PO if you can subsequently make a case under those grounds or one of them.

WarwickGrad
27-04-2010, 22:41 PM
ok thanks for that!

he hasnt paid anything for 12 weeks now, not even £10!

lets say he does reduce the arrears to below 8 weeks at the date of the hearing - could this 12 weeks of not paying sway most judges to give me discretionary possession via the other grounds?

davidjohnbutton
27-04-2010, 23:50 PM
If the tenant reduces to below 2 months and thereby frustrates ground 8 and you fall back on grounds 10 and/or 11, the judge is likely to give you a suspended possession order on terms to pay so much off the arrears each week and if that is broken, you can go straight to Warrant of Possession OR the judge may adjourn for 12 months with liberty to restore, in which case you can ask for a hearing without starting the process afresh if unpaid rent rises to the mandatory PO level again.

WarwickGrad
28-04-2010, 07:43 AM
ok

if this is the situation that arises, will the tenant be liable for all the courts costs?

what would the court costs be out of interest?

WarwickGrad
28-04-2010, 13:10 PM
hi

i'm doing an s8 eviction

as claimant should i have both our name (agents name) and the landlords name as claimant?

jeffrey
28-04-2010, 13:29 PM
hi

i'm doing an s8 eviction

as claimant should i have both our name (agents name) and the landlords name as claimant?
No, of course not. L's Letting Agents have no rights against T; it's L who litigates.

WarwickGrad
28-04-2010, 13:36 PM
but as agent, i have been managing the property for years

and for s21 evictions its never been a problem with the court

i have my name on the contract, issue claims in my name and include an agreement between the owner and ourselves that we are managing the property

maybe for s8/online evictions its different?

jeffrey
28-04-2010, 14:28 PM
How can YOUR name be on a Letting Agreement (as L) for a property in your client's ownership?

WarwickGrad
28-04-2010, 15:27 PM
its quite normal from what people tell me

i have managed the property for years, therefore i am the landlord

having looked at the online dictionary, this is the expalantion for a landlord:

'a man who owns or runs a lodging house, pub, etc.'

therefore, my interpretation of this is that as i am running the property, therefore i am the landlord

maybe you have all assumed that landlord should equal owner?

if so, some of the answers you give may not be accurate

maybe i'm wrong, would anyone like to add anything into my insight?

davidjohnbutton
28-04-2010, 20:05 PM
Quite simply, if you dont own the property you are letting, you are an agent for the landlord who is the true owner.

As a landlord you have a right of audience in court when acting as a litigant in person (i.e. without a solicitor).

As an agent, you have no right of audience though you can act as a Mckenzie man or woman to assist the landlord who is your principal at a court hearing, but you cannot appear in their stead, only by their side.

davidjohnbutton
28-04-2010, 20:07 PM
You will obtain an order for payment of the court fee and possibly but not always something for loss of time off work and car park fees and travel.

WarwickGrad
28-04-2010, 20:23 PM
ok

the owner doesnt want to get involved in this claim, cant blame him

lets assume i put the claim in, assuming i am the landlord

the tenant thinks i'm the landlord, as i've managed it for years and the owner doesnt ever turn up at the property

will the court look into the land registry to see who the owner is? will they waste their time doing this?

if they dont, then we dont have any issues right?

dc1977uk
28-04-2010, 20:52 PM
Good luck. You are in exactly the same position as me! On wednesday i am sending the claim for possession under the section 8 notice on grounds 8, 10 and 11. Update and let us know how you did. Just make sure you site the reason for possession correctly. Im writing:

"In schedule 2 to the Housing Act 1988, as amended by the Housing Act 1996, which read(s):

Ground 8
Both at the date of the service of the notice under section 8 of this Act relating to the proceedings for possession and at the date of the hearing-
a) if rent is payable weekly or fortnightly, at least eight weeks rent is unpaid:
b) if rent is payable monthly, at least two months rent is required;
c) if rent is payable quarterly, at least one quarters rent is more than three months in arrears; and
d) if rent is payable yearly, at least three months rent is more than three months in arrears;
and for the purpose of this ground "rent" means rent lawfully due from the tenant.

Ground 10
Some rent lawfully due from the tenant-
a) is unpaid on the date on which the proceedings for possession are begun;
b) except where the subsection (1)(b) of section 8 of this Act applies, was in arrears at the date of the service of the notice under that section relating to those proceedings.

Ground 11
Whether or not any rent is in arrears on the date on which proceedings for possession are begun, the tenant has persistently delayed paying rent which has become lawfully due."

Do you know if i have to write in anymore? i.e. details of the rent or can i just cite the above? The rental arrears is in the rent schedule which is supplied on another page when submitting online.

dc1977uk
28-04-2010, 20:58 PM
Or perhaps i should use:

"In schedule 2 to the Housing Act 1988, as amended by the Housing Act 1996:

Ground 8: The Tenant pays rent every month, and at least 2 months rent is unpaid. The monthly rent being £695, and the total outstanding rent being £1390.
Ground 10: The Tenant owes £1390 which is rent lawfully due and is unpaid on the date on which this notice is served. This is increasing at a rate of £22.85 per day.
Ground 11: The Tenant has persistently delayed paying the full rent due, inspite of reminders requesting full payment. "

Mrs Mug
29-04-2010, 09:23 AM
lets assume i put the claim in, assuming i am the landlord

So you are willing to commit perjury, just because a landlord can't be bothered to appear in court or pay for a solicitor.

Snorkerz
29-04-2010, 09:37 AM
Being paid to appear in court (which you would be doing) in place of your landlord appears to be an offence under the 2007 Legal Services Act Schedule 2 section 4(1)(b).

Unless, of course, your 'day-job' is solicitor or barrister. ;)

WarwickGrad
29-04-2010, 09:57 AM
i've just spoken to the court, explained everything to them and they said its fine for us, as agents to have our name on the claim form and contract, without the owners on there

where did you all get the idea that its not ok to evict some without the owners name on the claim form and contract?

Snorkerz
29-04-2010, 10:16 AM
where did you all get the idea that its not ok to evict some without the owners name on the claim form and contract?


Being paid to appear in court (which you would be doing) in place of your landlord appears to be an offence under the 2007 Legal Services Act Schedule 2 section 4(1)(b).It is a 'reserved activity'

Well, there is one example - did you read the act? Please bear in mind that court clerks are not legally qualified - they are administrators.

By all means, ignore the comments on here - but take them to a solicitor for his professional opinion before you bin them.

jeffrey
29-04-2010, 11:06 AM
Both. L needs to state the ground number used, the full text of the ground used, and what T has done (or not done) that triggers the ground used.

thesaint
29-04-2010, 12:34 PM
I have just asked the same question at my local court, and they informed me that an agent can not bring the claim.

I guess it depends on the court clerk, and the subsequent judge not knowing in order to do this.

davidjohnbutton
29-04-2010, 19:31 PM
And if you get caught out (remember the signing of the statement of truth at the end of the claim form) you wont have to worry about council tax, food, or shelter and many other things where you will be going for up to 7 years.

Perjury and making false statements in court is very seriously dealt with.

Poppy35
29-04-2010, 19:42 PM
I am an agent and always tell my clients I cannot act for them as I am not a solicitor however i fill in all the court papers (in the landlords name) as I am agent acting on their behalf. I appear in court with them but not acting for them. I explain to the judge who I am and its never been a problem

Dont lie

Snorkerz
29-04-2010, 21:21 PM
I am an agent and always tell my clients I cannot act for them as I am not a solicitor however i fill in all the court papers (in the landlords name) as I am agent acting on their behalf. I appear in court with them but not acting for them. I explain to the judge who I am and its never been a problem

Dont lieI believe this is th "Mckenzie woman" DavidJohnButton referred to earlier

Ericthelobster
30-04-2010, 08:57 AM
i'm gonna try my luck and will let you know how i get onBut if you're an agent, why would you want to do that, with all the associated risk which has been described above, rather than simply telling the owner/landlord 'no can do'? I don't get it.

thesaint
30-04-2010, 09:33 AM
But if you're an agent, why would you want to do that, with all the associated risk which has been described above, rather than simply telling the owner/landlord 'no can do'? I don't get it.

I don't know the OP's reason, but we have a few properties in which the landlord is receiving a guaranteed rent.

We want to evict one tenant that owes 7 months rent.
The landlord is not interested.

Ericthelobster
30-04-2010, 14:46 PM
I don't know the OP's reason, but we have a few properties in which the landlord is receiving a guaranteed rent.As in, the rent is currently coming out of your pocket?

thesaint
30-04-2010, 15:04 PM
As in, the rent is currently coming out of your pocket?

The landlord receives "x" amount every month, tenanted or not.

If there is no tenant, or they don't pay, the landlord receives his money.

WarwickGrad
30-05-2010, 10:46 AM
morning all

with 2 weeks to go to my s8 hearing, my claimant has started complaining about a couple of things:
1. his front door has a prob and he cant leave without closing it (someone tried to break into his flat and he has a police report)
2. he's claiming his cooker is broken and wants a new one
3. he's claiming his shower holder wasnt fitted correctly and it hit his daughter on the head (his daughter doesnt live there, she was visiting)

what would you do in my situation rgding the above? the main costly expense would be the front door, which was expensive

am i obliged to fix all these repairs, as he hasn't paid rent in the last 4 months? this is despite me treating him v well and refurshing his property 5 months ago! worse tenant i ever had!

Snorkerz
30-05-2010, 11:37 AM
Think of it not as a case of doing these repairs for this "non-paying" tenant, but doing them for your next tenant. By getting the repairs out of the way now, you can minimise your void.

So far as a new cooker is concerned, you have no obligation to provide new if a repair can safely be effected.

One would presume the door would be covered by your insurance.

I would ask for more details regarding the daughter - it is probably just a try-on, maybe to avoid responsibility for some damage already done by the tenant to she shower.

WarwickGrad
30-05-2010, 16:07 PM
the problem with this tenant is that i've spent £££ doing up his place and he isnt paying any rent

the repair to the door can be done in a few hours, but i'd prefer to evict him first then to do any more work

or, assuming i dont do any further work for him, can he use this against me at the hearing?

Mrs Mug
30-05-2010, 16:19 PM
assuming i dont do any further work for him, can he use this against me at the hearing?

From reading on this forum, it seems that the tenant will use the disrepair in court as a reason for not paying his rent. I.e., I haven't paid my rent because X, Y & Z needs repairing. So don't give him any excuses.

WarwickGrad
30-05-2010, 17:04 PM
hi all

i'm finalising my witness pack for the s9 hearing i have in 2 weeks

my labelling will be as follows:
A1 = AST
B1 = rent statement
C1 = Letters to Defendant
D1 = statement of rent account

should i add the claim number on each page?

i have 4 rent reminder letter, along with a rent statement for each and 4 proof of postages

shall i number all these C1, C2, C3.....C12?

should i include a bank statement in this pack? he hasnt paid any rent since the start of his new tenancy, 4 months ago...

jeffrey
30-05-2010, 17:36 PM
L's duties to T under the Letting Agreement continue unaffected by any breach by T of the obligations which bind him/her in the Letting Agreement.

WarwickGrad
30-05-2010, 17:44 PM
ok i will fix it on the first working day (tuesday)

he reported it on friday

as regards to work like this, what is the maximum no of days i should take as a landlord to fix these repairs?

shall i get the tenant to sign something when the hadyman is there, so i have proof that these repairs are being fixed? in case he mentions dis repair in court (the only way he has of escaping mandatory possession)

Paul Gibbs
01-06-2010, 11:38 AM
hi all

i'm finalising my witness pack for the s9 hearing i have in 2 weeks

my labelling will be as follows:
A1 = AST
B1 = rent statement
C1 = Letters to Defendant
D1 = statement of rent account

should i add the claim number on each page?

i have 4 rent reminder letter, along with a rent statement for each and 4 proof of postages

shall i number all these C1, C2, C3.....C12?

should i include a bank statement in this pack? he hasnt paid any rent since the start of his new tenancy, 4 months ago...

I assume you mean section 8 rather than 9.

When you say a witness pack do you mean a witness statement, or a bundle of documents to be used at the hearing?

If it’s a bundle you should also put the pleadings in. I would suggest the following order: -

1. Pleadings (Claim Form, then Defence)
2. Orders (Any orders made by the court with the most recent at the top, going back to most historic).
3. Claimant's Witness statements (if any)
4. Defendant's Witness statements (if any)
5. AST
6. Evidence of deposit protection (I know that it is not strictly needed)
7. Section 8 Notice, together with evidence of service.
8. Schedule of rent arrears (correct as at date of hearing, to include a separate calculation for any interest).
9. Correspondence (starting with most historic first, ending with most recent).

You can number each section (e.g. A1-10, B1 - 6 etc) or you can just number it 1-205 throughout.

The above may not be needed, but will get you extra brownie points. You should send a copy of the bundle to both the court and the defendant.

If you want to be completely sure take a spare copy to court just in case the Defendant claims to have never received it!

Do not put your bank statements in, however, take them along in case the court wants to see them.

WarwickGrad
09-06-2010, 15:41 PM
hi all

i have my long awaited s8 hearing next week

my tenant hasnt paid his rent for 5 months and loves playing games

since he received my witness statement - the one i submitted to court - he's seeked legal advice - and has been complaining about dis repair and him not having a cooker, a wardrobe, his bed's old, his door handle not working etc. - oh and somehow his daughter his her head when the shower handle dropped on her!

this is despite us refurbishing the property just before he moved in!

anyway, i wrote to him 10 days ago, asking him if he had any complaints about his property (kept proof of postage too) - he hasnt responded via post, he's just left a voicemail raising his concerns

any advice on what i should say and what evidence i should gather to counter his claim of dis repair, if as likely he brings it up at the hearing?

thesaint
09-06-2010, 16:48 PM
Why not simply reply to each point he has claimed is in disrepair?

If he had not told you about them, how were you to rectify the "problems".
Is this his defence to the court claim?

mind the gap
09-06-2010, 16:51 PM
hi all

i have my long awaited s8 hearing next week

my tenant hasnt paid his rent for 5 months and loves playing games

since he received my witness statement - the one i submitted to court - he's seeked legal advice - and has been complaining about dis repair and him not having a cooker, a wardrobe, his bed's old, his door handle not working etc. - oh and somehow his daughter his her head when the shower handle dropped on her!

this is despite us refurbishing the property just before he moved in!

anyway, i wrote to him 10 days ago, asking him if he had any complaints about his property (kept proof of postage too) - he hasnt responded via post, he's just left a voicemail raising his concerns

any advice on what i should say and what evidence i should gather to counter his claim of dis repair, if as likely he brings it up at the hearing?

The detailed check-in inventory, preferably supported by photographs, which he agreed at the commencement of the tenancy; any written communications between him and yourself on the subject of disrepair; any invoices/receipts for repairs carried out.

WarwickGrad
09-06-2010, 17:56 PM
didnt do an inventory or take photographs

he hasnt put in a defence as yet - if he doesnt do this and comes along at the hearing and provides it then, will the judge likely discard it as he wasnt provided enough time to read the defendant's defence?

does the following help my case:

i wrote to him 10 days ago to provide me with a list of problems his room has and that we'd reapir any issues if there were any

but he hasnt provided me anything in writing in response (and has ignored all my previous rent arrears letters)

will this letter i setn him be enough for the judge, indicating i was willing to repair anything in dis repair?

dc1977uk
09-06-2010, 18:28 PM
Isnt a pain to have such a poor tenant? I had a similar problem but they paid up in full just before court date. Sounds like you wont be so lucky. The courts will use common sense and its obvious the tenant and legal aid are clutching at straws - especially because they have ignored your recent letter. Im sure they will attend court (but hopefully not) so be prepared to explain that the tenant stopped paying before this supposed disrepair. Go in a nice suit and prepare your statements for each point that the tenant has made against you. Be calm and collective and attend smartly dressed. Im sure you will get an order for the arrears, tenant ordered to leave and they will receive a CCJ. Let us know how you get on.

Paul Gibbs
10-06-2010, 16:35 PM
didnt do an inventory or take photographs

he hasnt put in a defence as yet - if he doesnt do this and comes along at the hearing and provides it then, will the judge likely discard it as he wasnt provided enough time to read the defendant's defence?

does the following help my case:

i wrote to him 10 days ago to provide me with a list of problems his room has and that we'd reapir any issues if there were any

but he hasnt provided me anything in writing in response (and has ignored all my previous rent arrears letters)

will this letter i setn him be enough for the judge, indicating i was willing to repair anything in dis repair?

He does not have to file a defence, however, if he fails to do so the court can take his conduct into account on the issue of costs.

I would state that there is no genuine dispute. You have asked for clarification of the disrepair, and he has not replied.

His evidence is either non-existent, or substantially lacking. (obviously depending what evidence he has produced).

Even if (which is not admitted) there is a claim, or there is sufficient evidence before the court for it to decide there is a genuine dispute it is not substantial. CPR 55.8 requires there to be a genuine dispute on grounds that are substantial.

You can argue that the claims are so minor, any award is never going to be capable of reducing the arrears below 8 weeks/ 2 months. Ask for possession order now, with directions for the remainder of the money judgment claim.

Moderator1
10-06-2010, 21:15 PM
Six threads by the same member have been merged here. Please do not start a new thread if you merely wish to continue a previous discussion or report on subsequent developments. It can cause unnecessary confusion (quite apart from losing the connection with facts previously established or legal points previously explained).

WarwickGrad
14-06-2010, 20:06 PM
one final question before my hearing tomo

how should i address the judge?

your honour?

or sir/madam?

ill let u all know how it goes tomo evening! thanks for all your advice!!

Ericthelobster
14-06-2010, 22:22 PM
how should i address the judge?Sir / madam is the correct answer... good luck

Maddy1
29-06-2010, 13:52 PM
I'm preparing to submit my N5 and N119 under s.8.

I want to know

Do I need to add in the AST, copy of notices and my statement with this

or is it better to wait until the claim form is acknowledged and then submit my documents prior to the hearing?