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ABC123
30-03-2010, 15:59 PM
I rent out rooms in a house share (which I do not live in). After an argument one of the tenants (male) ended up hitting another tenant (female). She called the police (though they didn't take any action) and also had to go to hospital for stitches. The next morning she moved out as she was too afraid to stay in the house with the other tenant there (understandably).

I would like the male tenant to move out. Do I have to go through the normal procedure and give two months notice or is there a quicker way I could get rid of this violent tenant?

His rent payment date is today (30th of the month). Am I able to give him 2 months notice today or should it have been yesterday? I wrote him an email last night telling him I want him to move out - does that count as giving him notice from yesterday?

Does the notice have to given in a precribed format?

Thanks for any advice.

jta
30-03-2010, 16:23 PM
Immediately issue him with a S8 notice using ground 14. You should also make a police complaint if you not done so already, and have the crime number to hand if and when you have to go to court.
You should be able to start proceedings after 14 days have elapsed.
Also serve a S21 as a backup in case he wriggles out of the S8. S21 is a 'no fault' notice requiring possession and if it's done properly is certain to result in a possession order

Rodent1
30-03-2010, 16:25 PM
Have you asked him if he will leave of his own will ..and soon ?
It's good to talk first.

wilfred
30-03-2010, 16:54 PM
Have you asked him if he will leave of his own will ..and soon ?
It's good to talk first.

I can not believe the insensitivity of your advice on such a serious subject.

mind the gap
30-03-2010, 16:54 PM
Why did the police not charge him with assault if the other T needed stitches as a result of his violence ?

ABC123
30-03-2010, 17:04 PM
Have you asked him if he will leave of his own will ..and soon ?
It's good to talk first.

I have spoken to him and he blames the girl for provoking him. He also said he does not want to move out and I am sure he will not go quietly as he is such an awkward character.

ABC123
30-03-2010, 17:06 PM
Immediately issue him with a S8 notice using ground 14. You should also make a police complaint if you not done so already, and have the crime number to hand if and when you have to go to court.
You should be able to start proceedings after 14 days have elapsed.
Also serve a S21 as a backup in case he wriggles out of the S8. S21 is a 'no fault' notice requiring possession and if it's done properly is certain to result in a possession order

Am I able to make a police complaint or is it only the girl who was assaulted that can do that?

ABC123
30-03-2010, 17:10 PM
Immediately issue him with a S8 notice using ground 14. You should also make a police complaint if you not done so already, and have the crime number to hand if and when you have to go to court.
You should be able to start proceedings after 14 days have elapsed.
Also serve a S21 as a backup in case he wriggles out of the S8. S21 is a 'no fault' notice requiring possession and if it's done properly is certain to result in a possession order

Do I have to serve these notices today (as today is his rent day, i.e. start of the contract period)? The 6 months is up and is now a rolling contract.

Rodent1
30-03-2010, 17:28 PM
I can not believe the insensitivity of your advice on such a serious subject.


????????? A short chat could have achieved the desired result.
Nothing insensitive about it at all. Several weeks/months legal activity is far more insensitive to other remaining tenants.

We had a drunkard in a 6 let who bullied and physically abused the other tenants for a few weeks b4 we were made aware of it, I had a telephone call from a very upset female T at the house at around 1:30 am who had locked herself in her room and whose boyfriend left via a first floor window - down a drain pipe, due to being threatened by said drunkard.

I spoke with him the next day and he agreed to leave within 48 hours. I did not threaten him, or even raise my voice but did make it very clear that i and the other T would prefer it if he left ...and very soon.

mind the gap
30-03-2010, 17:33 PM
Do I have to serve these notices today (as today is his rent day, i.e. start of the contract period)? The 6 months is up and is now a rolling contract.

Yes, if you are hoping to evict using section 8, ground 14 (antisocial behaviour) then you can serve it immediately and apply for a possession order at once too. Read up on it here:
http://www.letlink.co.uk/letting-factsheets/factsheets/factsheet-8-claims-for-possession-the-section-8-notice.html

It would however be useful to back it up with a s21 in case the s8 fails.

What is the first day of the new rent payment period - today, 30th March? Is rent payable monthly?

mind the gap
30-03-2010, 17:41 PM
I can not believe the insensitivity of your advice on such a serious subject.
In fairness, I do not think this was insensitive advice. Given that the police have not brought charges against this tenant (it would be helpful to know why not), I do not think Rodent's suggestion was inapproppriate.

It may be that the girl's injuries were self-inflicted and that the man was guilty only of verbal aggression, in which case it may have been possible to resolve the issue without having to evict him.

Two sides to every story? At least by talking to all concerned, you would hear both of them. We had a student tenant once whom every one else in the shared house labelled a real troublemaker, a drug dealer, said he threatened them with violence, was anti-social, etc. When it boiled down to it, they could not produce any evidence of anything and a conversation between the other Ts (overheard by my husband but unbeknown to them), certainly suggested there was an element of victimisation going on. They wanted him out so another friend could move in.

ABC123
30-03-2010, 18:13 PM
What is the first day of the new rent payment period - today, 30th March? Is rent payable monthly?

Yes, he moved in on the 30th of his first month and pays rent every 30th.

ABC123
30-03-2010, 18:17 PM
In fairness, I do not think this was insensitive advice. Given that the police have not brought charges against this tenant (it would be helpful to know why not), I do not think Rodent's suggestion was inapproppriate.

It may be that the girl's injuries were self-inflicted and that the man was guilty only of verbal aggression, in which case it may have been possible to resolve the issue without having to evict him.

I have just spoken again with the girl. She decided not to press charges as she is afraid he will seek revenge.

Another tenant witnessed the assault (or a part of it at least). I have been unable to speak to him yet.

Snorkerz
30-03-2010, 18:30 PM
Yes, he moved in on the 30th of his first month and pays rent every 30th.

Then a section 21 needs to be served today (30/3) seeking possession "AFTER 29th May 2010". Expect to be told you are a day too late - you are not (30 Mar to 29 May inc is 2 calender months EXACTLY) but if that does happen, come back here for advice. You can get a quick and easy s21 form from the agreements section of this website. While you are at it, serve a s8 under ground 14. As Mind The Gap says, you can commence possession proceedings immediately on that one - google pcol.

ABC123
30-03-2010, 19:13 PM
Thanks to everyone for their advice.

I have just called one of the other tenants at the house who says the problem tenant is not at home and also did not stay there last night so it is possible he will not be there tonight. Am I able to serve the s.21 and s.8 if he is not there or would it be acceptable to have delivered them to his place of residence (and if I have witnesses)?

mind the gap
30-03-2010, 19:17 PM
Thanks to everyone for their advice.

I have just called one of the other tenants at the house who says the problem tenant is not at home and also did not stay there last night so it is possible he will not be there tonight. Am I able to serve the s.21 and s.8 if he is not there or would it be acceptable to have delivered them to his place of residence (and if I have witnesses)?

Take a witness and a camera to photograph you putting the notices under his door.

ABC123
30-03-2010, 19:24 PM
I am aware that time is marching on and wondering if I am able to serve s.21 tonight and s.8 tomorrow?

mind the gap
30-03-2010, 19:26 PM
I am aware that time is marching on and wondering if I am able to serve s.21 tonight and s.8 tomorrow?

Why can't you serve them both tonight? Get a good digital photo of each one and of yourself posting each one. There is no requirement to serve them on separate days

ABC123
30-03-2010, 19:36 PM
It looks like there is a ton of information I have to read before filling in the form. Should I not bother reading all the info and just fill it in?

ABC123
30-03-2010, 19:55 PM
It looks like there is a ton of information I have to read before filling in the form. Should I not bother reading all the info and just fill it in?

Ah! I have just downloaded the s.8 form on the agreements section here and it is much simpler than the pcol website so I will go serve both tonight :D

mind the gap
30-03-2010, 19:56 PM
Make sure you have a witness and that you have some photographic evidence that you have delivered it to the right room of the right house!

ABC123
30-03-2010, 20:38 PM
Make sure you have a witness and that you have some photographic evidence that you have delivered it to the right room of the right house!

Thanks, I will.

On the s.8 form it asks me to write down the earliest date on which court proceedings can be brought - this would be tomorrow?

mind the gap
30-03-2010, 21:05 PM
Thanks, I will.

On the s.8 form it asks me to write down the earliest date on which court proceedings can be brought - would this be 2 weeks from today, i.e. 13 April?

I though that with ground 14 it could be immediate.

Anyone know otherwise?

ABC123
30-03-2010, 21:18 PM
I just got a call from the tenant. He says he will start looking for a new place to live. I don't really trust him though and can imagine him dragging it on saying he can't find somewhere suitable or affordable. I'm going to drop the notices round now anyway.

mind the gap
30-03-2010, 21:20 PM
I just got a call from the tenant. He says he will start looking for a new place to live. I don't really trust him though and can imagine him dragging it on saying he can't find somewhere suitable or affordable. I'm going to drop the notices round now anyway.

I agree with your reasoning.

Rodent1
30-03-2010, 23:20 PM
I just got a call from the tenant. He says he will start looking for a new place to live. I don't really trust him though and can imagine him dragging it on saying he can't find somewhere suitable or affordable. I'm going to drop the notices round now anyway.


So it IS good to talk !

Why not assist him in finding a new place to live ?

I had a T who attempted suicide in one of my props, which totally freaked out the other 4 Ts.

He stayed wih his family for a few weeks then called to say he was coming back to the house, the other t were not at all comfortable with this - [for obvious reasons !] he was adamant that all would be okay with housemates[they disagreed], after a fairly lengthy chat, he agreed to move to one of my other properties where people where not aware of the incident and stayed there as a model T for nearly 3 years.

In nearly 20 yrs of letting and a head count of >100 tenants at any one time, i have NEVER needed to resort to legal action EVER [altho i have threatened it once or twice!]

Most people are fairly sensible if treated in a sensible and reasonable manner - no matter what the circumstances are.

If they are not - then your systems need re- evaluating - with particular attention given to initial referencing and explaining management systems at the outset.

Personally I would not be issuing S8 or S21 just yet, the guy has said he is leaving already - now work with him [not against him] to achieve desired result..........and start hoping you are actually getting rid of the correct toublesome T...and that the young lady is not the real problem.

westminster
30-03-2010, 23:26 PM
I have just spoken again with the girl. She decided not to press charges as she is afraid he will seek revenge.
AFAIK, it is the Crown Prosecution Service who decides whether or not to prosecute, not the victim. The girl may have decided to withdraw her cooperation, but the CPS can still choose to prosecute the attacker.

jeffrey
01-04-2010, 15:03 PM
I though that with ground 14 it could be immediate.

Anyone know otherwise?
Yes. There's no waiting period for g14, whether used alone or with other grounds. Serve the s.8 Notice, then immediately begin proceedings.
However, there's a different problem! Is the offender:
a. a sole T of his part of the premises; or
b. a joint T with one or more other people? In this second case, you cannot terminate 'his' tenancy but only the whole tenancy of them all.