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Kelstar
27-03-2010, 11:19 AM
I have a tenant whose AST ended on 25th March 2010.

I was planning on issuing the S21 to her before the above date but I sadly had a miscarriage and was hospitalised so have now missed the opportunity to issue it. We do not want her to live there anymore and in all honesty, she has expressed that she wants to leave but doesn't want to evict herself because she will be deemed as making herself intentionally homeless.

I need to know what dates I now put on the S21 in respect of what date we put on it and what date we want them to leave.

Please do not shoot me down in flames or have go at me, its been a very stressful and traumatic 10 days.

Thank you,
Kelly

mind the gap
27-03-2010, 11:29 AM
I have a tenant whose AST ended on 25th March 2010.

I was planning on issuing the S21to her before the above date but I sadly had a miscarriage and was hospitalised so have now missed the opportunity to issue it. We do not want her to live there anymore and in all honesty, she has expressed that she wants to leave but doesn't want to evict herself because she will be deemed as making herself intentionally homeless.

I need to know what dates I now put on the S21 in respect of what date we put on it and what date we want them to leave.

Please do not shoot me down in flames or have go at me, its been a very stressful and traumatic 10 days.

Thank you,
Kelly

I'm sorry to hear how stressful things have been for you.

Assuming that your T's rent is normally payable on 26th of each month, in advance (please confirm), then you have unfortunately missed the chance to serve her with a s21 (4) (a) notice to expire on or after 25th May; so before 25th April, serve one to expire on or after after 25th June. She will be liable for the rent up to that date (and after, if she does not move out). Ask her to move out on the 25th June or before (with appropriate notice to you, if she goes before the expiry of your notice.

If she wants to go before that, you can of course agree an early surrender with her.

Hope that helps.

Edit: could someone just heck I have got those dates correct please?

Kelstar
27-03-2010, 11:41 AM
I'm sorry to hear how stressful things have been for you.

Assuming that your T's rent is normally payable on 26th of each month, in advance (please confirm), then you have unfortunately missed the chance to serve her with a s21 (4) (a) notice to expire on or after 25th May; so before 25th April, serve one to expire on or after after 25th June. She will be liable for the rent up to that date (and after, if she does not move out). Ask her to move out on the 25th June or before (with appropriate notice to you, if she goes before the expiry of your notice.

If she wants to go before that, you can of course agree an early surrender with her.

Hope that helps.

Edit: could someone just heck I have got those dates correct please?

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

The rent is being paid by the council, we receive the payment every 4 weeks and the next payment date is Monday 29th March which we will receive on Thursday 1st April.

Please advise which dates I would need to use based on this information.

Thank you again.

tom999
27-03-2010, 11:50 AM
I need to know what dates I now put on the S21 in respect of what date we put on it and what date we want them to leave.
If the tenancy was an AST in England or Wales, for an annual rent of less than £25k, which began on or after 6 April 2007; then, any deposit must be protected before any valid s.21 notice can be served.

If the fixed period of the tenancy ended 25th March 2010, and the rent is paid monthly, then a new periodic tenancy now runs 26th to 25th of a month.

So, the possession date on the notice must be a day which is the last day of a tenancy period, i.e. the notice may be served on any day, but must expire on the 25th of a month (last day of tenancy period), giving a minimum length of notice as two calendar months from the day on which the tenant actually receives the notice.

If a valid s.21(4)(a) notice is served on the tenant on 29 March 2010, possession would be required after 25 June 2010 (or the 25th of any subsequent month). The expiry date should state: "after 25 June 2010".

Make three identical copies of the s.21(4)(a), send two copies from two different post offices, and ask for a (free) certificate of posting for each. Retain the third copy of the s.21, for your own records, i.e. when the notice expires, you may need to seek possession of the property if the tenant has not vacated.



Please do not shoot me down in flames or have go at me, its been a very stressful and traumatic 10 days.Sorry to hear about this. Hope it works out for you.

tom999
27-03-2010, 11:51 AM
The rent is being paid by the council, we receive the payment every 4 weeks and the next payment date is Monday 29th March which we will receive on Thursday 1st April.

Please advise which dates I would need to use based on this information.
What does the AST agreement state regarding rent payments?
Is rent payable:
(a) monthly?
(b) 4 weekly?
(c) something else?

What date did the tenancy begin?
What is the fixed term of the AST?

Kelstar
27-03-2010, 11:55 AM
What does the AST agreement state regarding rent payments?
Is rent payable:
(a) monthly
(b) 4 weekly?
(c) something else?

It does say monthly but this has all been thrown out because we had to wait for the council to approve her housing benefit claim so its paid every 4 weeks.

Kelstar
27-03-2010, 11:56 AM
What does the AST agreement state regarding rent payments?
Is rent payable:
(a) monthly
(b) 4 weekly?
(c) something else?

What date did the tenancy begin?
What is the fixed term of the AST?

The tenancy began on 25th March 2009 and it was for 12 months.

mind the gap
27-03-2010, 11:57 AM
Then it is monthly and the dates for the s21 are correct as given in my post #2 and Tom's #4 above.

Kelstar
27-03-2010, 11:59 AM
If the tenancy was an AST in England or Wales, for an annual rent of less than £25k, which began on or after 6 April 2007; then, any deposit must be protected before any valid s.21 notice can be served.

If the fixed period of the tenancy ended 25th March 2010, and the rent is paid monthly, then a new periodic tenancy now runs 26th to 25th of a month.

So, the possession date on the notice must be a day which is the last day of a tenancy period, i.e. the notice may be served on any day, but must expire on the 25th of a month (last day of tenancy period), giving a minimum length of notice as two calendar months from the day on which the tenant actually receives the notice.

If a valid s.21(4)(a) notice is served on the tenant on 29 March 2010, possession would be required after 25 June 2010 (or the 25th of any subsequent month). The expiry date should state: "after 25 June 2010".

Make three identical copies of the s.21(4)(a), send two copies from two different post offices, and ask for a (free) certificate of posting for each. Retain the third copy of the s.21, for your own records, i.e. if when the notice expires, you need to seek possession.


Sorry to hear about this. Hope it works well out for you.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

The deposit is in with the DPS.

So, on the S21 which I am going to date 29th March 2010, I am asking to seek possession after 25th June.

Does that mean her moving out date is 25th June and I am legally entitled to take back the property from 26th? Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, I am just trying to understand it all.

I want to be 100% sure that I have all the information correct before this is issued as I know she will be straight down to the council offices with it in hand.

Thanks again!

Kelstar
27-03-2010, 11:59 AM
Then it is monthly and the dates for the s21 are correct as given in my post #2 and Tom's #4 above.

Thank you mind the gap! I am so pleased that I found this website, I truly do not know where I would have been without it!

Kelly

tom999
27-03-2010, 12:05 PM
So, on the S21 which I am going to date 29th March 2010, I am asking to seek possession after 25th June 2010.Yes.


Does that mean her moving out date is 25th June and I am legally entitled to take back the property from 26th?No. This is the s.21 notice expiry date. If the tenant has not vacated by this date, you will need to make a claim for possession of the property (using form N5 or N5B); actual possession of the property may take a further 1 or 2 months. Focus on getting a valid notice served first, and report back here for further advice.


I want to be 100% sure that I have all the information correct before this is issued as I know she will be straight down to the council offices with it in hand.You must ensure that a valid s.21 notice is served, as the Council's Housing officer's are likely to check this.


Note: If the tenant has more than 2 months unpaid rent, then you may also serve s.8 g8, 10, 11 (http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/pdf/servingS8.pdf).

Kelstar
27-03-2010, 12:27 PM
Yes.

No. This is the s.21 notice expiry date. If the tenant has not vacated by this date, you will need to make a claim for possession of the property (using form N5 or N5B); actual possession of the property may take a further 1 or 2 months. Focus on getting a valid notice served first, and report back here for further advice.

You must ensure that a valid s.21 notice is served, as the Council's Housing officer's are likely to check this.


Note: If the tenant has more than 2 months unpaid rent, then you may also serve s.8 g8, 10, 11 (http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/pdf/servingS8.pdf).


Thank you so much for your latest message!

One other question if you don't mind.....Should I have informed the tenant of the prescribed information from the DPS? Someone on another site said I have to do this aswell before I can serve the S21. They also said that I should inform her that she is now on a periodic tenancy?

I don't want to bombard her with loads of paperwork but I do want to make sure that I have covered all bases.

Thanks again.

tom999
27-03-2010, 12:39 PM
Should I have informed the tenant of the prescribed information from the DPS?Yes, deposit should be protected and the tenant sent the prescribed information, before the s.21 is served; keep proof of any info. sent to tenant, e.g. certificate of posting.


They also said that I should inform her that she is now on a periodic tenancy?No, this is not required.

Kelstar
27-03-2010, 12:47 PM
This is a letter that I have typed up today with a copy of the PI....

Your Fixed Term AST has now expired (25th March 2010), and we do not wish to offer you a further Fixed Term.

Now that you remain in occupation after this date, the tenancy now becomes what is termed a Statutory Periodic Agreement which runs from one rental period to the next. All the original tenancy terms remain the same, except that we must give you two months’ notice to end the tenancy. The Notice from either party must coincide with the rental period, which will run from 26th of one month to the 25th of the next.

I enclose a copy of the Deposit Scheme’s Prescribed Information, in case you have mislaid the original copy sent to you on 1st February 2010.

Yours sincerely,

I'm guessing that I don't need to say all of this considering your last reply. Should I now just hand deliver a copy of the PI today and then post the S21 on Monday?

Sorry for all these questions tom999 :o

mind the gap
27-03-2010, 12:48 PM
Does that mean her moving out date is 25th June and I am legally entitled to take back the property from 26th? Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, I am just trying to understand it all.



Not quite. The chances are that she will move out, especially if the council have agreed to re-house her if she is served a s21.

However if she fails to vacate by the 26 June you will have to apply for a court order for possession and if necessary instruct bailiffs.

Kelstar
27-03-2010, 12:50 PM
Not quite. The chances are that she will move out, especially if the council have agreed to re-house her if she is served a s21.

However if she fails to vacate by the 26 June you will have to apply for a court order for possession and if necessary instruct bailiffs.

Thanks mind the gap. All this info is giving me a headache but it's info that I need to have! :D

tom999
27-03-2010, 12:56 PM
I'm guessing that I don't need to say all of this considering your last reply.A letter is not necessary.


Should I now just hand deliver a copy of the PI today and then post the S21 on Monday?You could deliver the PI in person today, providing you take an independent witness who will sign and date a statement to this effect.

You may also use this method of service for the s.21(4)(a) on Monday 29 March 2010 (as an alternative method to the PO's certificate(s) of posting).

Kelstar
27-03-2010, 13:01 PM
A letter is not necessary.

You could deliver the PI in person today, providing you take an independent witness who will sign and date a statement to this effect.

You may also use this method of service for the s.21(4)(a) on Monday 29 March 2010 (as an alternative method to the PO's certificate(s) of posting).

Regarding delivering the PI. The tenant is very hard to get hold of so maybe I should post it and get proof of postage then wait a couple of days and post the S21 again getting proof of postage(s)???

tom999
27-03-2010, 13:08 PM
Regarding delivering the PI. The tenant is very hard to get hold of so maybe I should post it and get proof of postage then wait a couple of days and post the S21 again getting proof of postage(s)???For personal service, you would not have to deliver it to the person*.

* Personal service
Take a digital camera (ideally one that date/time stamp's photos), a national newspaper with the current date, and an independent witness.
(1) Knock on door of property. Wait 2 minutes.
(2) Repeat (1) if no reply.
(3) If still no reply, get the independent witness to take photos of you posting the letter through the letterbox (with the newspaper's date visible in the shot).
(4) The independent witness should sign and date a statement to this effect.

Use whichever method suits you; PO of personal service.

Kelstar
27-03-2010, 13:11 PM
For personal service, you would not have to deliver it to the person*.

* Personal service
Take a digital camera (ideally one that date/time stamp's photos), a national newspaper with the current date, and an independent witness.
(1) Knock on door of property. Wait 2 minutes.
(2) Repeat (1) if no reply.
(3) If still no reply, get the independent witness to take photos of you posting the letter through the letterbox.
(4) The independent witness should sign and date a statement to this effect.

Use whichever method suits you; PO of personal service.

Thank you tom999 thats very useful info!