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View Full Version : PCOL- "date tenancy started"; adjourning? T's surrender?



Snowcapt
22-03-2010, 22:57 PM
I am dealing with an AST that has become a statutory periodic tenancy (monthly).

In the PCOL form, should I specify the start date of the tenancy the AST start date, or that of the statutory periodic tenancy (ie the day after the AST expiry date)?

Many thanks again for advice.

Snowcapt
23-03-2010, 01:48 AM
One more PCOL question:

The online form for the arrears history is this:


"Date Payment Due - Amount Due - Amount Paid- Accumulated Arrears"

If rent of £300 should be paid on e.g. the 10th day of each month, would the following be correct entries?

Date Payment Due - Amount Due - Amount Paid - Acc. Arrears:

10 Jan 09 - £300 - £0 - £300

10 Feb 09 - £600 [i.e. accumulated arrears plus Feb rent due] - £0 - £600

15 Feb 09 [T pays late] - £600 - £300 - £300

I am uncertain about 2 points:

1. Is the above "Amount Due" entry for 10 Feb correct, or should it only show the rental amount itself, i.e. without adding on the acc. arrears [£300 unpaid Jan rent]?

2. Is it correct to put the date T makes late payment [15 Feb] under the heading "Date Payment Due", since the form doesn't have "Date Payment Made"?

Many thanks in advance for advice.

havensRus
23-03-2010, 05:32 AM
1. Is the above "Amount Due" entry for 10 Feb correct, or should it only show the rental amount itself, i.e. without adding on the acc. arrears [£300 unpaid Jan rent]?

2. Is it correct to put the date T makes late payment [15 Feb] under the heading "Date Payment Due", since the form doesn't have "Date Payment Made"?


1. Yes, Only amounts due for payment on the date.
2. Yes.

See schedule format below:

Date Payment Due - Amount Due - Amount Paid - Acc. Arrears:

10 Jan 09 - £300 - £0 - £300

10 Feb 09 - £300 - £0 - £600

15 Feb 09 - £0 - £300 - £300

10 Mar 09 £300 - £0 - £600

etc. etc.

Snowcapt
19-04-2010, 10:51 AM
Hi,

With the volcanic ash problems, creating uncertainty on whether I will be able to get back in time for my PCOL hearing, I wonder whether it is possible to have a friend go on my behalf? E.g. submit a POA to the court, together with the trial bundle?

Or do I have to instruct a solicitor for this?

Many thanks in advance for advice.

Snorkerz
19-04-2010, 11:38 AM
Hi,

With the volcanic ash problems, creating uncertainty on whether I will be able to get back in time for my PCOL hearing, I wonder whether it is possible to have a friend go on my behalf? E.g. submit a POA to the court, together with the trial bundle?

Or do I have to instruct a solicitor for this?

Many thanks in advance for advice.

You could apply for an adjournment - likely to be accepted given the circumstances.

Bertie Wooster
19-04-2010, 19:05 PM
Hi,

With the volcanic ash problems, creating uncertainty on whether I will be able to get back in time for my PCOL hearing, I wonder whether it is possible to have a friend go on my behalf? E.g. submit a POA to the court, together with the trial bundle?

Or do I have to instruct a solicitor for this?

Many thanks in advance for advice.


Where and when is your hearing? I am an advocate and based in the Midlands, and will accept work on private basis.

In any event I'll be happy to help you through the requirements if you are at all unsure.

:)

Snowcapt
21-04-2010, 07:12 AM
Many thanks Snorkerz and Bertie Wooster, for your replies.

It seems the travel situation is improving and should hopefully be back to normal before my hearing.

The tenant has recently made payments of rent so at the date of the hearing, there will only be £5 unpaid rent (T probably made an arithmetic error). I also have a hope that T is currently planning to move within 1-2 months.

I am therefore thinking about asking T to sign a deed of surrender, to allow me to peaceably re-enter, in return for my withdrawing the claim. Is this a good idea? I should mention that the tenancy in question is a monthly Statutory Periodic (AST expired).

And does anyone have some suggested wording?

Thank you in advance.

Snowcapt
21-04-2010, 07:49 AM
Hi,

I have issued a PCOL claim (s. 8, grounds 10 and 11). However T has since cleared the arrears so that at the hearing there will only be a small amount unpaid (probably attributable to arithmetic error by T).

To avoid the hassle of going to court, I am considering offering to withdraw the claim if T agrees to sign a Deed of Surrender, agreeing to move out at an agreed future date.

However I read somewhere that the surrender must not be done whilst T remains in occupation - is this correct?

As long as T remains pays rent, I don't mind them staying 1-2 months more. However, due to the considerable history of late and very late rent payments and T's almost total failure to respond to any form of communications in the last 3-4 months, I would like T to leave in order to get a reliable tenant.

Many thanks in advance for advice.

Lawcruncher
21-04-2010, 09:50 AM
However I read somewhere that the surrender must not be done whilst T remains in occupation - is this correct?

I used to think so having regard to section 5 (5) HA 1988:

If, on or before the date on which a tenancy is entered into or is deemed to have been granted as mentioned in subsection (3)(b) above, the person who is to be the tenant under that tenancy—

(a) enters into an obligation to do any act which (apart from this subsection) will cause the tenancy to come to an end at a time when it is an assured tenancy, or

(b) executes, signs or gives any surrender, notice to quit or other document which (apart from this subsection) has the effect of bringing the tenancy to an end at a time when it is an assured tenancy,

the obligation referred to in paragraph (a) above shall not be enforceable or, as the case may be, the surrender, notice to quit or other document referred to in paragraph (b) above shall be of no effect.

However, on re-reading the subsection it seems that the agreement to surrender is only unenforceable if made before the tenancy begins. I was once persuaded to the contrary, but am now not sure.

The best practice is to make sure that the signing of the surrender document and the tenant vacating take place simultaneously.

Snorkerz
21-04-2010, 09:52 AM
Hi,

I have issued a PCOL claim (s. 8, grounds 10 and 11). However T has since cleared the arrears so that at the hearing there will only be a small amount unpaid (probably attributable to arithmetic error by T).

To avoid the hassle of going to court, I am considering offering to withdraw the claim if T agrees to sign a Deed of Surrender, agreeing to move out at an agreed future date.

However I read somewhere that the surrender must not be done whilst T remains in occupation - is this correct?

As long as T remains pays rent, I don't mind them staying 1-2 months more. However, due to the considerable history of late and very late rent payments and T's almost total failure to respond to any form of communications in the last 3-4 months, I would like T to leave in order to get a reliable tenant.

Many thanks in advance for advice.A deed of surrender would only get you possession if T actually moved out - if they didn't, you would still need a court order and bailiffs - they are the final stages of any possession.

As Tenant has brought arrears almost up to date, your chances of getting an order under s8 g10 & 11 are reduced - but still not imposible. If you get your order, you could always delay involving the bailiffs for a couple of months.

Might be sensible to issue a section 21 if you haven't already done so as this will ultimately result in guaranteed possession providing any deposit is protected before the issue and you get the s21 form correct. Often, s21 can be done without a court hearing.

Just a thought - you are non resident in the UK? Does your tenant have an address in England/Wales where he can serve legal documents upon you?

jeffrey
21-04-2010, 09:53 AM
Yes, plus the danger with T staying resident after executing the Deed is obviously that T might not vacate.

Snowcapt
21-04-2010, 10:47 AM
Thank you all for very quick and very helpful replies.

I am resident here (just travel a lot), so there is a UK address for service.

I issued the s. 21 notice in tandem with the s. 8 (as advised on this forum), and the depsit is with the DPS scheme. The s. 21 notice expired 4 April, so this seems a readily available alternative course of action. I used s. 8 and PCOL at the time because the rent arrears were substantial.

As the hearing date is exactly the day before the next rent payment is due, I am also considering applying for an adjournment (to postpone the hearing date). That way I can see whether T pays for the next month, and also try again to ask them for a date when they will vacate.

Any tips on adjournment applications would be much appreciated too :-)

Snowcapt
21-04-2010, 11:48 AM
I just found the online option of requesting an adjournment through the PCOL website - very handy!

Snowcapt
21-04-2010, 12:48 PM
Hi,

I would like to postpone an allocated hearing date in a PCOL case by almost 2 months.

There is a facility for applying online for an adjournment and the fee is £75 (since I don't have T's consent nor can give 14 working days' advance notice).

Would it be better to withdraw the claim (and get a small refund of the PCOL fee?) than to pay for an application to adjourn?

Is it likely that the court (assuming my reason of inability to attend due to travel abroad is accepted) will adjourn for such a long time as 2 months?

Again, many thanks in advance for advice.

Moderator1
22-04-2010, 12:02 PM
Five threads by the same member have been merged here. Please do not start a new thread if you merely wish to continue a previous discussion or report on subsequent developments. It can cause unnecessary confusion (quite apart from losing the connection with facts previously established or legal points previously explained).