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vegasgo
22-03-2010, 12:51 PM
Hi, our T ordered a takeaway and the delivery driver reversed into a garden pillar, causing it to collapse.

Our T have had 6 months to organise the repair, but nothing yet.

They leave in 5 weeks and I want this repaired. I have written to the restaurant in question, and if I hear nothing back, how liable would our Ts be? As they invited the delivery driver onto their premises, does the buck stop with them? Thanks.

vegasgo
23-03-2010, 15:18 PM
Neither party budging, who is liable? Any advice greatly appreciate, thanks.

Kaya
23-03-2010, 15:26 PM
Neither party budging, who is liable? Any advice greatly appreciate, thanks.

The cost of repairs should be claimed from the delivery driver's car insurance. Organise the repair yourself and send the food outlet the bill. I know this because I once reversed into my childminder's wall and the cost of the repairs was claimed from my car insurance :)

Kaya

jeffrey
23-03-2010, 16:04 PM
Er, what is a garden pillar?

mind the gap
23-03-2010, 16:46 PM
Er, what is a garden pillar?

's obvious, innit? One of those green and black striped furry wriggly things :)

(Bit like Jeffrey on camouflage drill!)

jeffrey
23-03-2010, 17:07 PM
That's a cat or pillar, I agree, but it's hard for a delivery driver to reverse into or to make collapse.

mind the gap
23-03-2010, 18:00 PM
That's a cat or pillar, I agree, but it's hard for a delivery driver to reverse into or to make collapse.
A cat on a pillar. One of those stone lion jobbies?

vegasgo
23-03-2010, 20:12 PM
The pillar in question is brick built, 4ft high, and sits between one side of our drive and the pavement.

Thing is, this happened last November. I would have expected my T to contact said take away, request car insurance details of the driver, then present to us for a claim. This did not happen.

I don't even know if the driver still works there, and if it came to reporting to the police a 'failure to stop after an accident' incident, I don't even have a car reg number.

Is the negligence of our T then make them liable for the damage? They did not even tell us it happened.

JK0
23-03-2010, 23:56 PM
Could your house insurers help?

Markonee1
24-03-2010, 08:37 AM
For a couple of quid, you could improve your DIY portfolio and build it your self. Surely it's not more than a couple of pieces to fit together Krypton-like...

mind the gap
24-03-2010, 08:42 AM
For a couple of quid, you could improve your DIY portfolio and build it your self. Surely it's not more than a couple of pieces to fit together Krypton-like...

Good idea.

'A man who can't handle tools is not a man...'

Willy Loman ['Death of a Salesman'].

Learning how to bricklay has to be be more interesting and productive than engaging in circular- and ultimately futile - arguments with insurance companies, vague disorganised tenants and insolvent pizza delivery companies.

islandgirl
24-03-2010, 09:27 AM
Police will not be interested and after 6 months it is not going to be easy to prove. I am afraid van reg numbers, pics of the incident, full documentary details etc would be needed for any claim to succeed.
Re DIY - we have got a similar problem relating to a "public service vehilce" reversing into something. Damage is so extensive (documented and admitted by driver) that repair is over £3000....

vegasgo
24-03-2010, 09:29 AM
I built it myself and can rebuild it, but its the principle of the matter. Insurers want £250 excess, so no go there.

islandgirl
24-03-2010, 09:32 AM
Unfortunately we can't do ours as it is a massive job and (although hubby is excellent at this kind of thing) we don't see why we should! However I don't hold out much hope 6 mths later I'm afraid.
Now a question arises - could the OP withhold deposit for this when tenants leave?

mind the gap
24-03-2010, 09:49 AM
Unfortunately we can't do ours as it is a massive job and (although hubby is excellent at this kind of thing) we don't see why we should! However I don't hold out much hope 6 mths later I'm afraid.
Now a question arises - could the OP withhold deposit for this when tenants leave?
But it was not the tenant's fault that a delivery company accidentally demolished his LL's pillar, any more than if any other driver/vehicle legitimately on the premises were to do so. It is not an offence to order a pizza to be delivered. Why should the T be liable?

If OP must pursue anyone, it is surely the piazza company.

islandgirl
24-03-2010, 10:16 AM
well it happened on his watch, so to speak. He was responsible for the property at the time and he invited the pizza company (who may also design town squares as per your post MTG, but I don't know for sure).
I am not saying he can, but if the tenant has done nothing about it for 6 months....

Markonee1
24-03-2010, 11:24 AM
well it happened on his watch, so to speak. He was responsible for the property at the time and he invited the pizza company (who may also design town squares as per your post MTG, but I don't know for sure).
I am not saying he can, but if the tenant has done nothing about it for 6 months....
Would it be usual for deliveries to enter the drive at all? If not, how can the event be foreseeable?
Often there is a heart felt true 'right' but, you don't want on your gravestone:

"Yes, but it was the principle that counted!"

Actually, I'd be quite happy for that, myself:D

mind the gap
24-03-2010, 11:31 AM
the pizza company (who may also design town squares as per your post MTG, but I don't know for sure).

Ha ! Well spotted. (Or checked). Pray that Jeffrey doesn't see this one.:p

mind the gap
24-03-2010, 11:32 AM
Would it be usual for deliveries to enter the drive at all? If not, how can the event be foreseeable?
Often there is a heart felt true 'right' but, you don't want on your gravestone:

"Yes, but it was the principle that counted!"

Actually, I'd be quite happy for that, myself:D
There are lots of things I don't want on my gravestone!

'She worked her way into this pit', for a start.

property mongrel
24-03-2010, 11:55 AM
the police can take action but if you do not bother to report it they will not. you still have time to involve them, and if you do some of the work to make it easy for them it would help them help you.

for the sake of a few letters and maybe a couple of visits and telephone calls you could start a ball rolling that may end up with you getting some satisfation. i can understand why you would have expected your tenants to do something but do not see how they had any obligation to do so. maybe if it was a leaking pipe and they needed to act to prevent more damage they would have done something?

when did they become aware of the damage? how did you/they know it was by that pizza delivery driver?

you can get a statement of facts from them about what happened and when. stick a declaration at the top of the statement so that in the event they move away you still can use their statement in proceedings. not sure what your experience is in these things but the more compelling you make your case against the company the less likely they are to fight you. especially for a relatively small amount.

take photos of the pillar, "before" photos are useful to show what was then and what is now.

assuming the police do not help you for whatever reason priorities, lack of staff etc, the time limit for civil action against the pizza co if they are liable is 3 years from date of incident. plenty of time.

i would not let it go, i too would fight it on principal. happy to discuss if it may help?

good luck

pm

jeffrey
24-03-2010, 12:00 PM
Ha ! Well spotted. (Or checked). Pray that Jeffrey doesn't see this one.
Sorry; you didn't pray hard enough.

mind the gap
24-03-2010, 12:04 PM
Sorry; you didn't pray hard enough.

Come on then, let's have 'em. Gloves off.

mind the gap
24-03-2010, 12:37 PM
Oh, sorry, Jeffrey.

Mality, Mality, Mality, Mality!

jeffrey
24-03-2010, 13:34 PM
Mality of mality; all is mality.
(Except Ovaltine- malty)

jeffrey
24-03-2010, 13:35 PM
Gloves off.
Chapped hands.

islandgirl
24-03-2010, 13:37 PM
Sorry but the police will not under any circumstances want to know about this "it's a civil matter sir...."
The pizza company will no doubt say "it wasn't us" and 6 mts down the line with no evidence it will be monumentally difficult to prove it was....
I had someone demolish something on my site a few weeks ago. Noone fessed up - HOWEVER I happened to have fabulous CCTV footage of the whole incident. How I enjoyed showing it to the guilty party....they did cough up, of course, having seen the incident on my laptop!

mind the gap
24-03-2010, 13:50 PM
Mality, Mality, Mality, Mality!

Just thought I'd better get the Four Malities over with before the gloves came off!

property mongrel
24-03-2010, 16:51 PM
Sorry but the police will not under any circumstances want to know about this "it's a civil matter sir...."
The pizza company will no doubt say "it wasn't us" and 6 mts down the line with no evidence it will be monumentally difficult to prove it was....

I can understand that viewpoint, mostly borne out of frustrating lack of action from the police.

actually it's not a civil matter sir. its an rta(i), road traffic incident. s170 rta applies, "if owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place an accident occurrs causing damage or injury" etc the driver has obligations. a pillar at the boundary of the highway and the property would be in play for the rta, driver has obligations and police may not like it but would have an obligation to record it if it was reported.

however, a pillar at the end of a large driveway or an incident in a car park may not, it depends on a number of other factors such as is there a separate entrance and exit point, but that gets too deep for this question.

on the facts presented this does not appear to be a civil matter. IMHO

as for "without evidence it will be monumentally difficult to prove, actually it will be impossible to prove. but, here there appears to be plenty of information which once put in evidence format would assist in proving a case and supporting a claim. unless of course the tenants are not being open and honest and maybe caused the problem themselves. at the end of a letter exchange and a threat of court action you may get your money. you may have to take out a small claims court action, and the court will then hear the matter.

entirely up to the initial poster what they choose to do, but it is not as difficult a task as you appear to be suggesting it would be.:)

atb

pm

islandgirl
24-03-2010, 23:06 PM
sorry I disagree (that is what this forum is for - an expression of different viewpoints!)
What evidence is there? The tenant's word. OK. His word against the pizza company. Police will certainly not be interested (have you ever tried to get them interested in something like this?). Private land perhaps? Edge of the highway? No other vehicle involved. No injury. Happened 6 mts ago. No registration mark or driver ID.....
Even if it was recorded (which I don't believe it would be) what help would that be? proof that "an incident" had occured. No culprit. No reg mark. No driver to interview. I hardly think they will be pulling the pizza company's delivery records for the night in question...
Exactly what evidence would you produce in court to back up the claim?
Having been a few times to small claims I think you need more than "it was 'im, honest guv"!!!

Mars Mug
25-03-2010, 07:41 AM
Having been a few times to small claims I think you need more than "it was 'im, honest guv"!!!

It's more complicated than that in this case. Not only is the OP talking about an unknown or unprovable driving accident, but there is a suggestion that responsibility for costs is now with the tenant becasue they did not report the incident (assuming they saw it).

islandgirl
25-03-2010, 07:54 AM
That's right. I am not saying you can (or that it is fair) but could you deduct from deposit was the question I put.

Mars Mug
25-03-2010, 08:08 AM
My opinion of the ‘fairness’ is dependent on when the landlord became aware of the situation. If it was only recently then I think the landlord has a reasonable argument, but if the landlord knew shortly after the incident then I would say the tenant’s involvement ended then. I’m still not confident that a claim against the deposit would get through either way though.

property mongrel
25-03-2010, 08:47 AM
island girl - agreed.

if a T fails to safeguard the property or enable prompt action to recover loss can LL legally retain some or all of deposit? would there need to be a clause in a lease to cover this angle? i would have thought that the T had an obligation to prevent damage to the property, and if damage was caused recover costs or enable LL to do same?

do tenants have a resposibility to report damage by a third party to the LL or LA asap? if a T finds a leak can they just step back and report it? do they have a responsibility to take action to prevent further damage?

pm