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stephking13
19-03-2010, 20:22 PM
if I have tenants who are not paying the benefit they have received to me and the direct payments have now ceased from the social to me also!
Can I now contact the utility suppliers and teminate the contracts as I assume that they arent paying the utilites either! is this a legal action? as this would the the property un inhabitable legal

mind the gap
19-03-2010, 20:33 PM
if I have tenants who are not paying the benefit they have received to me and the direct payments have now ceased from the social to me also!
Can I now contact the utility suppliers and teminate the contracts as I assume that they arent paying the utilites either! is this a legal action? as this would the the property un inhabitable legal
No, you cannot have the utilities cut off to your tenants. It is illegal. Whether they pay the utility bills or not is not your problem (or your business) in any case.

Mars Mug
19-03-2010, 21:11 PM
Can I now contact the utility suppliers and teminate the contracts as I assume that they arent paying the utilites either! is this a legal action? as this would the the property un inhabitable legal

Sorry mate, but I think you're trapped in the last century ;)

mind the gap
19-03-2010, 21:27 PM
Sorry mate, but I think you're trapped in the last century

Or even the one before that :rolleyes:

Snorkerz
19-03-2010, 22:54 PM
if I have tenants who are not paying the benefit they have received to me and the direct payments have now ceased from the social to me also!
Can I now contact the utility suppliers and teminate the contracts as I assume that they arent paying the utilites either! is this a legal action? as this would the the property un inhabitable legalYou would be in line for a visit to the Magistrates Court for Illegal Eviction. Possible £5k fine or 6 months inside ;-)

stephking13
20-03-2010, 09:04 AM
I really dont understand why these people who have sponged off the state for all their lives wasted our tax pounds and stolen the housing benefit money that should have come to me! Can have so many rights and I can do nothing except spend 5 months throwing more money at a lawyer to get these peopele out of my house!
They give nothing! do nothing! and get everything for free while I pay for their free ride:mad:

davidjohnbutton
20-03-2010, 09:50 AM
Welcome to being a landlord. Did you check these people out before you let them into your house, did you take a deposit and/or guarantor?

Best get possession proceedings started by issuing a S8 notice and commencing court proceedings once that expires in 14 days. Plenty of material on this site to help you - you dont necessarily need a solicitor, it can all be done by a reasonably competent person.

bullybantam
20-03-2010, 10:19 AM
Welcome to being a landlord. Did you check these people out before you let them into your house, did you take a deposit and/or guarantor?

Best get possession proceedings started by issuing a S8 notice and commencing court proceedings once that expires in 14 days. Plenty of material on this site to help you - you dont necessarily need a solicitor, it can all be done by a reasonably competent person.


Can see where the OP's coming from, the law these days is tilted far too in favour of the tenant. In short the tenant can take the p1ss (and most know it) but if the LL makes even the slightest error the law's on top of them.

Pretty much sums up modern Britain IMHO:mad:

mind the gap
20-03-2010, 10:20 AM
I really dont understand why these people who have sponged off the state for all their lives wasted our tax pounds and stolen the housing benefit money that should have come to me! Can have so many rights and I can do nothing except spend 5 months throwing more money at a lawyer to get these peopele out of my house!
They give nothing! do nothing! and get everything for free while I pay for their free ride:mad:

I am afraid that your indignation and outrage changes nothing. As djb points out, it would have been sensible to establish your rights and those of tenants before rushing into landlording, rather than after. Your reasoning (about why you should be allowed to cut the water/electricity/gas off as a punitive measure) is fatally flawed since two rights do not make a wrong. You must stay within the law and - as you are discovering - that can be a protracted and expensive process. Perhaps you will need to revise your business plan to allow for this in future.

If your reaction to what I have just said is 'What's a business plan?', then I think you have probably put your finger on the problem.

mind the gap
20-03-2010, 10:26 AM
Can see where the OP's coming from, the law these days is tilted far too in favour of the tenant. In short the tenant can take the p1ss (and most know it) but if the LL makes even the slightest error the law's on top of them.

Pretty much sums up modern Britain IMHO:mad:
Yawn. If we had a pound for every unprofessional LL who does not think the law should apply to him, and comes on this forum whingeing about how it is always biased towards the tenants...we would be rich.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

If you don't like the law in this country, either campaign to change it through democratic means or live elsewhere, if anywhere else will have you. Perhaps some rightwing dictatorship would look kindly on your application.

bullybantam
20-03-2010, 10:39 AM
Yawn. If we had a pound for every unprofessional LL who does not think the law should apply to him, and comes on this forum whingeing about how it is always biased towards the tenants...we would be rich.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

If you don't like the law in this country, either campaign to change it through democratic means or live elsewhere, if anywhere else will have you.

Not a case of being unprofessional etc, simply stating my view that law is in favour of the tenant.

As for your comment about getting out of the kitchen..I'm no longer investing new money in residential property and might well sell up and invest elsewhere.

As for comment about campaigning to change the law. Only two methods of changing the law actually work - violent protest and paying of politicians. Don't want to indulge in either.

As for your catty comment about not being able to gain residency anywhere else. As the forum know all, I'd thought you'd know that as an EU citizen I can move anywhere else in EU without restriction.

davidjohnbutton
20-03-2010, 10:41 AM
Actually, personally, I think the balance is about right. A prudent landlord, vetting tenants, taking a deposit and keeping a very watchful eye on rent payments and taking action as soon as a payment is missing and issuing a S8 notice as soon as the second payment goes missing wont be all that much out of pocket.

As soon as the landlord proves rent arrears of two or more months - thats it, the tenant loses his/her home - no personal circumstances taken into account, no saying "just lost my job" or "wife's pregnant" - unless there is a valid counterclaim for repairs, a possession order follows sure as night follows day AND you get a judgement for the arrears.

Every landlord should factor this in pro-rata to the number of properties they have - if the landlord is lackadaisical about letting, so too might the tenants be about paying rent. Professional approach - paperwork all correct - steadfast policy on dealing with unpaid rent etc.

Both S21 and S8 notices are relatively simple to fill in - those numpties that dont know how to - find someone who does - same with the possession forms.

Some of todays landlords ought to have been around circa 1979 when Rent Act tenancies ruled - judges gave every chance to tenants time and time again and possession was a very last ultimate and costly since no landlord dared do it himself - no internet help either!!!!! Rents were very low and fixed by a Rent Officer and there was no Housing Benefit - the DSS paid some housing costs and NEVER directly to a landlord so the tenant already in arrears could continue to spend his housing costs on booze, drugs whatever.

Those were the bad old days - its much better for modern day landlords - only thing is they dont realise it!!!!

mind the gap
20-03-2010, 10:44 AM
Well said, djb, however I think there are some on this forum who woud prefer a return to the models of landlording which obtained in the days of Rachmann or even Dickens.: rolleyes:

mind the gap
20-03-2010, 10:56 AM
As for your catty comment about not being able to gain residency anywhere else. As the forum know all, I'd thought you'd know that as an EU citizen I can move anywhere else in EU without restriction.
Not catty - just a statement of fact and an ironic aside based on the generally cynical tenor of your posts in this thread and others. Your assertion that the law can only be changed by illegal or corrupt methods would suggest that democracy is indeed wasted on you. (That was also ironic, by the way!)

Where else in the EU do you think your dislike of what you consider to be pro-tenant legislation (e.g. laws relating to electrical safety, which you have previously attacked as being unnecessary) would be welcome? And do you speak the language of that country fluently enough to understand the legal and business systems in force there? If not, how do you plan to communicate in that country - or will you just shout loudly in English in the expectation that they will understand?

Perhaps a little more thinking-through is indicated before you attempt to shift your business empire to mainland Europe?

bullybantam
20-03-2010, 15:27 PM
Actually, personally, I think the balance is about right. A prudent landlord, vetting tenants, taking a deposit and keeping a very watchful eye on rent payments and taking action as soon as a payment is missing and issuing a S8 notice as soon as the second payment goes missing wont be all that much out of pocket.

As soon as the landlord proves rent arrears of two or more months - thats it, the tenant loses his/her home - no personal circumstances taken into account, no saying "just lost my job" or "wife's pregnant" - unless there is a valid counterclaim for repairs, a possession order follows sure as night follows day AND you get a judgement for the arrears.




If only things were that simple!

A quick scan of this forum shows matters are often more complex than tenant gets into arrears S8, then S21 hey presto..

Also don't forget tenants often don't take eviction quietly. What about the tenant who during eviction process you find out it is a member of a heavy duty football "firm". Or the female tenant who goes round local bars telling people landlord groped them?

Then of course there's all the regulation & red tape these days. Get a foot wrong and it can be a criminal record.

Snorkerz
20-03-2010, 16:11 PM
If only things were that simple!

A quick scan of this forum shows matters are often more complex than tenant gets into arrears S8, then S21 hey presto..

Also don't forget tenants often don't take eviction quietly. What about the tenant who during eviction process you find out it is a member of a heavy duty football "firm". Or the female tenant who goes round local bars telling people landlord groped them?

Then of course there's all the regulation & red tape these days. Get a foot wrong and it can be a criminal record.So don't get a foot wrong, or if you do, accept the consequences - preferably with good grace. If only our youth were taught this very simple premise in schools the country would be far more successful and problem tenants might have more respect for authority and their own responsibilities.

bullybantam
20-03-2010, 16:49 PM
So don't get a foot wrong, or if you do, accept the consequences - preferably with good grace. If only our youth were taught this very simple premise in schools the country would be far more successful and problem tenants might have more respect for authority and their own responsibilities.

I think it comes down to age & upbringing. Everyone these days seem to know their rights, but not their responsibilities.

Call me old fashioned, but if you owe money you pay it back. You don't phone an 0800 number and get a CVA. If you have multiple kids, you look after them, you don't get the state (ie the rest of us) to fork out for them. If you're not up do date with your rent, your trespassing on someone's property.

mind the gap
20-03-2010, 17:02 PM
I think it comes down to age & upbringing. Everyone these days seem to know their rights, but not their responsibilities.

Call me old fashioned, but if you owe money you pay it back. You don't phone an 0800 number and get a CVA. If you have multiple kids, you look after them, you don't get the state (ie the rest of us) to fork out for them. If you're not up do date with your rent, your trespassing on someone's property.

Fascinating. What a pillar of society! (Or perhaps just a pillar). Do we take it then that you have had a 'road to Damascus' conversion as far as your legal responsibilities towards your Ts for electrical safety are concerned, since you posted about your contempt for the legislation in this thread not so long ago:
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=25804
......................:rolleyes:

sundance
20-03-2010, 18:14 PM
I think some of these people delibrately take advanatage of our nannied state & make it a misery for others.I think a good kick in the pants along with cutting of their utilities totaly justified.

mind the gap
20-03-2010, 18:21 PM
I think some of these people delibrately take advanatage of our nannied state & make it a misery for others.I think a good kick in the pants along with cutting of their utilities totaly justified.

Whether you (or anyone else) thinks that cutting the utilities is justified is completely academic, since it is illegal.