Tenant Leaving Furniture Behind

[Handson]

Letting agent verbally told me they had rehoused my tenant last week and therefore that ended our agreement. They have even handed me the keys to flat.

Should letting agent have written to me that agreement is over as well?

=========

Tenant has left furniture in my flat but had informed me [early last week Mon/Tues] she booked a removal firm for last weekend. They never came. T's things are still there. I had planned to change locks over the weekend.

It's now into 2nd week. I've been reasonable and giving tenant enough time to move it out. I want to secure property and start repairs etc. T has my number, but I have to go through letting agent.


What is a reasonable timeframe to give T to move things out ?

Can I change locks and then arrange with tenant a time to pick things up given that tenant has moved out ? Or will that open me up to accusations of things going missing etc..

Can this be done verbally / should I write a letter and have it passed on by letting agent?

[mind the gap]

Letting agent verbally told me they had rehoused my tenant last week and therefore that ended our agreement. They have even handed me the keys to flat.

Should letting agent have written to me that agreement is over as well?

=========

Tenant has left furniture in my flat but had informed me [early last week Mon/Tues] she booked a removal firm for last weekend. They never came. T's things are still there. I had planned to change locks over the weekend.

It's now into 2nd week. I've been reasonable and giving tenant enough time to move it out. I want to secure property and start repairs etc. T has my number, but I have to go through letting agent.


What is a reasonable timeframe to give T to move things out ?

Can I change locks and then arrange with tenant a time to pick things up given that tenant has moved out ? Or will that open me up to accusations of things going missing etc..

Can this be done verbally / should I write a letter and have it passed on by letting agent?

Had you served notice on the tenant (or they on you) - or did the agent unilaterally and unbidden, take it upon himself to tell them to move out, then re-house them?

In other words, why did the tenancy end?

[Handson]

Had you served notice on the tenant (or they on you) - or did the agent unilaterally and unbidden, take it upon himself to tell them to move out, then re-house them?

In other words, why did the tenancy end?

MTG I was told they had rehouse due to property not being in a fit state to live in due to a leak as well as boiler breaking down.

I was given two weeks to rectify or they would.

So tenant has been rehoused but belongings still reside in property. Tenant was compaining about costs of self-storage but didn't pick it up on weekend.

But can I secure property by changing locks?

Also how much notice should I give Tenant to move stuff before I can [its nearly 2 weeks]

Tenant has been quite reasonable. I have contacted letting agent by telephone and asked them to contact tenant and ask T to call me but nothing yet.

[mind the gap]

MTG I was told they had rehouse due to property not being in a fit state to live in due to a leak as well as boiler breaking down.

I was given two weeks to rectify or they would.
.

Told by whom? The T? Your agent? Who are 'they'? (emboldened above).

Was any kind of formal surrender document drawn up and signed? Or do you or the agent have anything in writing referring to Ts' agreement/desire/threat to move out?

[Handson]

The letting/managing agent. There was no surrender document.

I had a letter of repairs and timeframe expected [s weeks] for it to be resolved. Then a further letter to say I had to inform them of whats to be done and if nothing has been done then they would have to take action by rehousing tenant as she wasn't living in the premises. Then on the phone they said the tenant was having to be rehoused.

But also when I met the tenant I was informed she was moving out due to damp. She blamed them for slowness. Rent had been witheld for February due to not living there.

In terms of contract with them, they are the referred to as the 'tenant', the actual tenant who lived there was from local housing association.

[Handson]

Had you served notice on the tenant (or they on you) - or did the agent unilaterally and unbidden, take it upon himself to tell them to move out, then re-house them?

In other words, why did the tenancy end?

mtg - this last line really struck a chord with me last night after my last post. I will have another look at those letters to make sure of wording [especially second - I hope it's not shredded].

I don't know if they told tenant to move out, only to rehouse them. I only heard she was staying at her sisters for 2 weeks or so then a 10 days later, she was to be rehoused. But it is looking like that.

The leak was primary thing mentioned on phone and greatly exaggerated.

The tenant also said she was moving end of March/April and that she had hassle with agent as well as people chasing previous tenant. They probably knew this too. I have been very trusting of lettings agents assessment this whole time due to being some miles away from flat. He has told me it's leak, and to chase flat above as well as insurance. Also "looking at costs of 000's".

But if indeed she has moved out, her stuff still in my flat. She has key to it that she hasn't given back.

[mind the gap]

Sorry, but please could you clarify for me that all the following statements are true:

1. You are employing a letting agency to manage the property for you
2. The LA are not your tenant
3. The woman whom the LA say they are rehousing, is your tenant
4. She has moved out of your property having complained about the damp and boiler breakdown.
5. The LA told her it was OK to do that if you did not effect repairs within 2 weeks from when they asked you to.
6. You were unable to effect the repairs within 2 weeks.
7. There is nothing in writing to suggest that the tenancy has been formally ended.

If the answer to all these questions is 'True', then it sounds as though the agent has acted unprofessionally if not in breach of contact, but you will need to decide what you want to do about that.

What is more urgent is for you to establish that legally and in writing that the tenancy is definitely ended, because if you do not do that, there is an outside chance that your T could come back and claim that the tenancy still continues. If she does that and you have regained possession by changing locks, etc, she could in theory claim you have illegally evicted her and that she ony moved out while you did the repairs, etc., etc. This is unlikely, but not to be risked.The fact that her possessions are still in the property and that she has not returned the keys, make it more complicated, as you will appreciate. Do not go into the property (except to allow the repairs to be carried out) and under no circumstances should you dispose of her stuff until you have a formal surrender in place and you have followed the correct procedure with regard to abandoned goods. See Jeffrey's #43 on this thread:http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=201&highlight=abandoned+goods&page=5

If however I have misunderstood the situation, please correct any of 1-7 above which are not true.

[Handson]

Mtg - Pretty much true to all statements.

no5 - I don't know if tenant had chosen to move out due to no heating/running hot water or if they had told her to as she has a kid and it might help her case to be rehoused. But it looks like that. 4 weeks past.

They have been unprofessional cowboys. The contract between us did state they can 'terminate at any time' but with no notice period specified on their part. I would be happy to be shot of them if it was matter concluded swiftly.

When you say legally and in writing - can verbal be considered legal [they have handed me original keys which no longer of use] and then a letter to confirm. Also shouldn't they have handed me both keys if she has moved into a new place?

Shall I write a letter/call them asking them to write back to me confirm that the agreement between ourselves is concluded. Does it have to be called 'notice of surrender? Would the said tenant need to also sign this agreement ?

Her stuff in the flat as well as keys makes it tricky. Does that mean she would still be considered my tenant and I can collect rent? I will check later this week to see if it has been taken.

I appreciate your insight into the matter.

[mind the gap]

Mtg - Pretty much true to all statements.

no5 - I don't know if tenant had chosen to move out due to no heating/running hot water or if they had told her to as she has a kid and it might help her case to be rehoused. But it looks like that. 4 weeks past.

They have been unprofessional cowboys. The contract between us did state they can 'terminate at any time' but with no notice period specified on their part.

When you say legally and in writing - can verbal be considered legal [they have handed me original keys which no longer of use] and then a letter to confirm. Also shouldn't they have handed me both keys if she has moved into a new place?

Shall I write a letter/call them asking them to write back to me confirm that the agreement between ourselves is concluded. Does it have to be called 'notice of surrender? Would the said tenant need to also sign this agreement ?

Her stuff in the flat as well as keys makes it tricky.

I appreciate your insight into the matter.

You are really confusing me now! Please explain

By 'they' (emboldened text, above) do you always mean your Letting Agent (LA)?
By 'she' presumably you mean your tenant (T)?
By 'ourselves' do you mean you and your T, or you and your LA?

Whatever you mean, your contact with your LA has nothing to do with your T.

[jeffrey]

You are really confusing me now! Please explain

By 'they' (emboldened text, above) do you always mean your Letting Agent (LA)?
By 'she' presumably you mean your tenant (T)?
By 'ourselves' do you mean you and your T, or you and your LA?

Whatever you mean, your contact with your LA has nothing to do with your T.
I agree!
Hanson- do you realise that you (as L) have two separate and independent contracts (one with A and the other with T)?

[Handson]

You are really confusing me now! Please explain

By 'they' (emboldened text, above) do you always mean your Letting Agent (LA)?
By 'she' presumably you mean your tenant (T)?
By 'ourselves' do you mean you and your T, or you and your LA?

Whatever you mean, your contact with your LA has nothing to do with your T.

Yes they - I am referring to letting/managing agent.

she is the tenant.

By ourselves I was referring to letting/managing agent I signed agreement with them.

[Handson]

I agree!
Hanson- do you realise that you (as L) have two separate and independent contracts (one with A and the other with T)?

Sorry Jeffrey, I do realise that.

I was just reading the contract earlier where LA put their names under tenant and got myself in a muddle.

[Handson]

So two things:

1) Ask LA in writing to confirm in writing the contract has been terminated.

and

b) Make attempts to contact rehoused tenant following procedure in link and ask her to remove furnishing from property in timely manner?

[mind the gap]

So two things:

1) Ask LA in wiriting to confirm in writing the contract has been terminated.

and

b) Make attempts to contact tenant following procedure in link and ask her to remove furnishing from property in timely manner?

1) which contract - the tenancy contract (between you and your T) or the agents' contract between you and your LA?

b) Yes.

[Handson]

1) which contract - the tenancy contract (between you and your T) or the agents' contract between you and your LA?

b) Yes.

Tenancy agreement.

The Managing agent referred to themselves in original tenancy agreement as tenant. But they found someone via housing association (the actual tenant). Sorry for confusion. But the two are seperate entities.

[mind the gap]

Tenancy agreement.

The Managing agent referred to themselves in original tenancy agreement as tenant. But they found someone via housing association (the actual tenant). Sorry for confusion. But the two are seperate entities.

If the managing agent is also the original tenant then they owe you the rent. It concerns me that you do not seem to have much grip on who your tenant actually is.

When I asked you before (#7, number 2) whether the MA were your tenant, you effectively said they were not. Yet now you say they referred to themselves as the tenant.

Please find the tenancy contract for your property and tell us who is named as your tenant.

Or are you saying there are TWO TAs, both relating to the same period? Or what?

[jeffrey]

Plus: is the Managing Agent (for the block of flats) the same as OP's Letting Agent (for this specific flat)?

[Handson]

If the managing agent is also the original tenant then they owe you the rent. It concerns me that you do not seem to have much grip on who your tenant actually is.

When I asked you before whether the MA were your tenant you effectively said they were not. Yet now you say they referred to themselves as the tenant.

Please find the tenancy contract for your property and tell us who is named as your tenant.

Or are you saying there are TWO TAs, both relating to the same period? Or what?

Managing agent is referred to as 'the Tenant'. I'm the LL.

They told me at the time they rented property out to housing association as they preffered dealing with companies.

[Handson]

Plus: is the Managing Agent (for the block of flats) the same as OP's Letting Agent (for this specific flat)?

No Jeffrey. They are two different things.

I went to MA to help me place a tenant in flat and manage the property because they were local.

Block of flats is run by different firm altogether.

[jeffrey]

No Jeffrey. They are two different things.

I went to MA to help me place a tenant in flat and manage the property because they were local.

Block of flats is run by different firm altogether.
So you went to Letting Agent, not to Managing Agent.

[Handson]

So you went to Letting Agent, not to Managing Agent.

Thanks.

The Letting Agent.

[Handson]

If the managing agent is also the original tenant then they owe you the rent. It concerns me that you do not seem to have much grip on who your tenant actually is.

When I asked you before (#7, number 2) whether the MA were your tenant, you effectively said they were not. Yet now you say they referred to themselves as the tenant.

Please find the tenancy contract for your property and tell us who is named as your tenant.

Or are you saying there are TWO TAs, both relating to the same period? Or what?


LA is the 'tenant' as written on agreement.

The furniture in the property belongs to the person they placed in the flat..

Then who do I inform to remove furniture. I will phone them tomorrow to contact the girl again.

They will say they have surrendered property as they gave me back original keys [that dont work on locks] and told me they have terminated. The furniture belongs to her.

I am not on bad terms with them but want a swift end to this.

[mind the gap]

My brain hurts.

However, as I said before, if the LA is your tenant then it suggests that it is they (LA) who are ultimately responsible for paying you the rent, whether or not they sublet the property (as your agreement with them presumably allows them to?)

I honestly think you need to take all the various contracts which you have signed which relate to your property and the letting of it, to a lawyer versed in Landlord and Tenant Law and get some advice.

Without seeing the contracts you have signed it is difficult for us to help you especially as you seem confused yourself as to what's what.

[jeffrey]

I agree. OP (= L) let to Agent (= T) who sublet to subtenant (ST). So:
a. T pays own rent to L- is not an AST relationship, because T does not reside there as only/main home; and
b. ST pays own rent to T- might be an AST relationship, if ST resides there as only/main home.

[Handson]

Jeffrey that sums it up.

ST things are still in flat as of last Weds but I will check today to see if this has changed. My agreement was with LA(t). I was told over week ago ST had been rehoused.

LA (t) gave me back original keys which aren't of much use. ST had changed locks which and has one set of keys. LA didn't know about this. I can only get in touch with her through LA.

Original agreement had a year to run but they can terminate anytime if premises is unfit or official body terminate agreement with them without my going back to them for compansation.

I want to 1) secure property and 2) have her things moved out.

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So does above change anything in this scenario in terms of how to deal with this? She is not my tenant or ST any longer but has access to my property.

[jeffrey]

Your only contractual relationship is with A, you know, so it's to A that you should apply pressure- no matter that:
i. A is constrained by ST's having left her goods in the premises; and
ii. it was ST (not A) who changed the locks- did your Agreement with A prohibit that?

[Handson]

Yeah I understand they can't do much. But I'm not on bad terms with them.

On ii. It may have been that that particlar employee didn't personally know about it at the time of speaking. They have tended to pass you to one employee or another.

I haven't read in the agreement anything that prohibits it. Does door locks fall under structure? Then maybe. I was explained by ST there was breach and for securiy they were changed.

I've phoned LA to contact the girl to bring the removal to her attention. They will be calling me back within 20 minutes in regards to that. When they do, should I also ask them to write back to me in written notice that agreement is over as well.

[Handson]

Update: spoke to ST who tells me they have removed furniture from flat and will leave me the keys later today.