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View Full Version : Issued Section 8 and now PCOL - some advice please



Cipher
28-02-2010, 21:08 PM
Having made a couple of mistakes along the way (failed to check references, get copies of documents of who my tenants are, allow T to pay deposit in instalments etc) I have served a S.21 and S.8 on the tenant.

I was secretly hoping that the S.8 notice would have been enough but as its now expired (past 14 days since date of issue) and not heard anything from the Tenant (intention to leave property or paying up) I want to submit a claim via PCOL asap (in hindsight I should have gone through the details of the form before notice expired).

There are a couple of sanity checks I would like to run through with the forum members to ensure I have completed this correctly. I have compiled my list from the questions on the form and feedback from other threads.

PCOL Questions:
About the tenancy
On my AST (England and Wales) it states rent to be £X pcw to paid monthly. I have entered the monthly amount(£Y) and stated its due monthly.
Do the figures in entered in PCOL and the one on the AST need to match?
If they do I could select the 'other' option and type into the free text field.

Reason for Possession (in note form for forum purpose):
Claimant requires possession of property because rent lawfully due has not been paid by Defendant. The amount unpaid is £Z at service of notice and filing claim. Defendant has not paid and not provided a reason for failing to pay.

Recovery Steps already taken
Emailed – Telephoned – Personal Visit to property to discuss late/no payment of rent.
(Times and Dates are sketchy from several months ago, but I do have recent information (last couple of months) should I name this in this section (how much detail should I go into?)
Defendant suggested in email for a payment plan to clear outstanding payment but has failed to comply with their own plan (will add T’s email to me in evidence pack)
Issued S.21 – Served in person, witnessed (will also include copy and witness statement in ‘evidence pack’)
Issued S.8 – Served in person, witnessed (will include copy and info in pack)

Notice Type – I can choose 1 of 4 but I’ve narrowed it down to two.
For a S.8 notice is it a
Notice to quit
OR
Notice seeking possession

About the defendant
Defendant circumstances
Not sure what to write here.
I know her name and that’s about it, she’s failed to provide me with a copy of her passport or work details (I know I should already have this but dont).

About the claimant
Financial or other information
What information does the court require of me?

I know there are a lot of questions – the last two seem to be the trickiest. I know someone will reply ‘seek legal advice etc’ and its a fair point but I'm hoping I can complete this on my own with the help of the forum. I think I’m pretty close to completing this claim on PCOL and want a few pointers for the questions where I don’t have anything to write and confirmation I have included the relevant information where I have submitted my answers.

tia

davidjohnbutton
01-03-2010, 03:33 AM
Very important - as the reason for possession, you must insert this wording "Possession claimed under ground 8, and/or grounds 10 and 11 of Schedule 2 Housing Act 1988 as amended by Housing Act 1996." If you miss this wording out, your judge will either dismiss the claim or suspend the possession order. You can add you other wording as suggested to explain.

About the tenancy. If its an AST - enter Assured Shorthold in the space provided. When you come to enter the rents outstanding, if you have a rent payment due date of 1st of each month, you enter rent due 01-01-2010 - due is £400 or whatever - paid £0.00 - arrears £400. Next entry would be rent due 01-02-2010 - due = £400 - paid £200 - arrears £600 as examples. You seem to have created a weekly tenancy where the rent payments are due monthly on x day of each month - did you provide a rent book? Did you protect any deposit. If not - do both now.


Your recovery steps taken is worded ok.

A S8 notice is Notice Seeking Possession.

Defendant circumstances. Just put down what you know - if nothing - put nothing known other than name - not known if working and not known if claiming benefit or HB/LHA

Claimant - just put down claimant suffers hardship due to lack of receiving rent lawfully due.

See my recent posts as to how to do a claimant bundle of documents to take to court on the day of the hearing. (I am due in court shortly thread)

Cipher
01-03-2010, 08:33 AM
You seem to have created a weekly tenancy where the rent payments are due monthly on x day of each month - did you provide a rent book? Did you protect any deposit. If not - do both now.

I received 2 of 3 installments for a deposit which I protected earlier this year. Yes it was a mistake on my part the amount should have read an amount to be paid monthly. Do I need to create a rent book even though the money is due monthly (its not weekly rent x 4 but weekly rent x 52/12) on the same date per month?

Extract from agreement:
Rent: £100 per calendar week
Rent Payment Dates: 1st Day of each Month.


Good tip about the wording for Section 8 and grounds being relied on, this was noted from my previous search on the forum but I forgot to add this to my claim wording.

For creating a claimant bundle - where I mark emails/documents as exhibit 1/evidence 1 - should I reference this in my claim wording? I haven’t compiled all of the necessary documents so would not be in a position to reference these correctly on PCOL at present.

davidjohnbutton
01-03-2010, 10:50 AM
If the rent is payable monthly and there is no reference to an amount paid weekly or due weekly, then its a monthly tenancy. If its a monthly tenancy - then there is no need to provide a rent book, if its weekly, then you do need to make one up pronto. Reading your last post refers to an amount DUE each calendar week - so you DO need a rent book.

You do not cross reference or refer to any documents in PCOL other than by stating the date the tenancy commenced and the date S8 notice was served.
You take the document bundle into court with you or you can serve it a few days beforehand - personally, I prefer to hand it out at court.

Cipher
01-03-2010, 11:13 AM
Thanks DJB for the quick reply
On PCOL is asks for the following information:
Current Rent
Rent Frequency

Should I state
£100
Weekly

or
£433.33
Monthly

Currently the tenant is paying in the latter form £433.33 pcm (but as you pointed out this somewhat contradicts the information on the AST)

Should I submit my PCOL claim before issuing a rent book? (I have orderd one from Law Pack this morning based on your advice but it can take upto 7 days for this to be delivered).

davidjohnbutton
01-03-2010, 11:36 AM
I would use rent payable monthly because you will then need less entries on the PCOL system to show the rent arrears.

As for rent book, dont wait until that arrives, issue using PCOL now. Provision of a rent book only basically avoids a fine for not supplying one on a weekly tenancy.

albyskoons
01-03-2010, 16:24 PM
Hi Cipher

DJB is on the money.

I've only had one court appearance (touch wood), but making sure all your paperwork is well in order and easily referenced will help.

In my case, the tenant didn't bother turning up to court, and the court ordered immediate possession along with an order for payment within 14 days.

I was extraordinarily lucky in the end to get the tenant out promptly (he left that day) and get my money back in full several months later after managing to track two moves and find the employer.

Good luck!

Cipher
01-03-2010, 19:31 PM
Claimant - just put down claimant suffers hardship due to lack of receiving rent lawfully due.

Guys could I have a hand with this question please - how much or little to write, I'm finding it difficult to put into words what I am being put through. I'm looking for a model answer something that doesnt stand out so it gets rejected because of lack of detail or a sob story. Would what DJB wrote be enough (i.e one line)?

My mind is drawing blanks when I stare at this question and I know I would react differently if not under this stress. I want to get everything correct so not having to start the process again (DJB spotted such an example when I failed to mention that I am relying on Section 8 and its specific grounds).


Very important - as the reason for possession, you must insert this wording "Possession claimed under ground 8, and/or grounds 10 and 11 of Schedule 2 Housing Act 1988 as amended by Housing Act 1996."

Do I then need to go on and explain why each ground is being relied upon - or is the above statement enough?

I know its a little late in the day (but if I needed legal advice on this (some handholding...) - what sort of solicitor should I be looking for?, should I be looking to instruct someone to come with me to court?

stuco
01-03-2010, 21:04 PM
Have emailed you but also copied here...

All I put was,
We are having to draw on our personnel savings to cover the mortgage payments due on the property in question.

To be honest, the judge seemed more concerned that we'd served the papers on the right date and that we had mentioned grounds 8,10 and 11 in Schedule 2 of the HA. He went through how much rent was owed and then granted us a 28 day possesion order because it was nearly Christmas (grrr).
Hope this helps,
Tracy

Cipher
01-03-2010, 22:19 PM
One more for everyone - how do I refer to S.8 and S.21
I want to say "Claimant issues a S.8 Notice on Date and S21 Notice on date).
I have noticed that DJB referes to the S.8 as "Possession claimed under ground 8, and/or grounds 10 and 11 of Schedule 2 Housing Act 1988 as amended by Housing Act 1996." without saying the word S.8.
Just want to make sure the judge doesnt pull me up on the description of the notices.

davidjohnbutton
01-03-2010, 22:58 PM
Do not include within PCOL claim anything relating to S21 notice - its completely irrelevant for a S8 possession.

Your notice of seeking possession is given under Section 8 of the Housing Act 1988 which is why its called a S8 notice.(same with S21 - thats under S21 of HA 1988) The GROUNDS for possession under that section 8 are usually ground 8 (2 months/8 weeks unpaid rent) 10 and 11 which cover unpaid rent lower than 8 weeks unpaid and persistent delay. Usually the S8 notice is already preprinted with those grounds and under paragraph 4 you explain each ground. Ground 8 proven is a mandatory possession order, the other 2 are discretionary and enable the judge to make a PO suspended or ultimate if the tenant reduces the unpaid to below 2 months/8 weeks before the hearing.

In the PCOL system, you do not need to re-explain each ground - the S8 notice you served does that, and when you get to the hearing, you produce that to the judge in the bundle.

You can adduce the info suggested by Stuco if it applies to you, but my wording has successfully produced some 300 possession orders without question in the last 5 years.

Cipher
02-03-2010, 14:03 PM
So close - last one guys, I filled in the table for payments and have followed what I did on the Section 8 notice, just want to check which format is correct:

What my current PCOL entries looks like:
Amount Due (AD)
Amount Paid (AP)
Accumulated Arrears (AA)

AA AP AA
100 100 0
100 100 0
100 0 100
100 0 200
100 10 290

Or should the table read as below:
AD AP AA
100 100 0
100 100 0
100 0 100
200 0 200
300 10 290

i.e should I add the accumulated arrears to the amount due + normal rent value?

Cipher
02-03-2010, 17:21 PM
Sorry if I'm confusing the matter.

For 'Amount Due' should this contain the rent amount only or take into account money oustanding because previous month was not paid in full.

havensRus
02-03-2010, 20:06 PM
Sorry if I'm confusing the matter.

For 'Amount Due' should this contain the rent amount only or take into account money oustanding because previous month was not paid in full.

Only the rent due. The accumulated arrears is shown in a separate column.