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stresshead
22-02-2010, 21:35 PM
We moved into our home a few months ago. It's a Victorian property, broken up as follows:
- Terraced house, converted into three flats: A, B & C
- Adjacent coach house

We live in the coach house and have an AST with our LL (LLA) via a third party agent. The top two floors of the terrace house make up Flat A, which is privately owned. Flat B is privately owned and rented out (by LLB). Although they are ex-husband and wife, LLA and LLB have no financial interest in each other's properties. I have no idea who owns or lives in Flat C.

The problem lies with the tenants in Flat B. LLB has an agreement with a local housing scheme "Positive Moves" which provides temporary accommodation to children/young adults coming out of care, hostels, detention centres, etc. The tenants stay anything from 2-6weeks before moving elsewhere. We and the owners of flat A have experienced varying degrees of anti-social behaviour from the tenants (or their associates) in Flat B, including:

- burglary
- stolen post
- excessive levels of noise
- harassment & intimidation
- attempted theft of delivered items
- furniture and rubbish dumped on our property

The front window to flat B was broken to gain access to the property so parties and gatherings could be held when the tenants were not in the property. This was boarded up, so extra sets of keys were cut and handed out. Other damage to the property has occurred, namely interior doors being re-housed to the garden and visible damage to other furnishings. LLB (who owns the freehold) has expressed his disinterest in the tenants' activities. He is not bothered that the property is being trashed by unsavoury tenants, or that his tenants are causing nuisance to their neighbours. The "Positive Moves" scheme appears to be part-funded or governed by the council and they pay the rent on the nose every month whether the place is occupied or not - or as LLB says: "I'm a businessman".

The police have been called on several occasions to break up fights, investigate the burglary and on one occasion to respond to a firearm incident, but in general no action can be taken against the tenants via environmental health, etc. as they move out before the case gets anywhere. Is there anything we can do? Can LLB be held accountable at all? It is such a shame as the house is otherwise a perfect place for us to live.

Many Thanks for reading, I know it's a lengthy post, so congratulations if you got this far!

Extremely Stressed
22-02-2010, 21:46 PM
I would write and email as many local councillors as possible, as well as going on fixmystreet.com and I would recommend contacting your local council's anti social behaviour team unit and reporting it ASAP.

stresshead
23-02-2010, 13:49 PM
Result: I called "Positive Moves" and the current tenants moved out today. Positive Moves no longer wish to rent the property and are not putting anyone else in it until the tenancy ends, so there will only be private tenants in there from now on...phew!

JK0
23-02-2010, 14:19 PM
"Positive Moves"

You've got to love these social scheme titles haven't you?

westminster
23-02-2010, 14:37 PM
Result: I called "Positive Moves" and the current tenants moved out today. Positive Moves no longer wish to rent the property and are not putting anyone else in it until the tenancy ends, so there will only be private tenants in there from now on...phew!

Hooray! but I was going to ask, who owns the freehold, because LLB as a leaseholder is obliged to comply with his leasehold covenants (which usually include not causing a nuisance). This applies regardless of who is actually in occupation, so LLB would be liable for breaches caused by his tenants. So you could have complained to the freeholder, or asked LLA to complain to the freeholder. Anyway, just saying in case the new private tenants also cause a nuisance.

stresshead
23-02-2010, 20:26 PM
Hooray! but I was going to ask, who owns the freehold.

LLB's company owns the freehold!

stresshead
23-02-2010, 21:11 PM
"Positive Moves"

You've got to love these social scheme titles haven't you?

Yes, I almost cracked a smile at the irony as well, but I'm just glad that it's over! Unless the possibility that Westminster pointed out arises and the new private tenants prove to be a nuisance...fingers crossed on this one.

completelystressed!
01-03-2010, 16:54 PM
Result: I called "Positive Moves" and the current tenants moved out today. Positive Moves no longer wish to rent the property and are not putting anyone else in it until the tenancy ends, so there will only be private tenants in there from now on...phew!

Hi - I'm imagining that stresshead is my neighbour in the Coach House? I'm the owner of Flat C (Top floor). We spoke last week and you told my daughter the good news.

Positive Moves rang me today and want access to decorate the flat (I haven't given them or landlord new keys). They are going to place another person between ages of 16-18. Of course we might get a little angel but that hasn't proved to be the case to date.

I'm gutted - went into another panic attack this afternoon and still having difficulty breathing. I don't think I can bear to go through it all over again. Need all the back-up possible......

westminster
01-03-2010, 17:28 PM
Hi - I'm imagining that stresshead is my neighbour in the Coach House? I'm the owner of Flat C (Top floor). We spoke last week and you told my daughter the good news.

Positive Moves rang me today and want access to decorate the flat (I haven't given them or landlord new keys).


I'm getting confused...

stresshead rents The Coach House
completelystressed owns Flat C
and extremely stressed has no connection?
Flat B is the problem flat, and it's owned by the freeholder...


Why are Positive Moves calling you, completelystressed, about access? You don't own Flat B, so why would you be giving access?

completelystressed!
01-03-2010, 17:39 PM
Yes, Stresshead rents The Coach House
I own Flat C top floor.
Don't know who extremely stressed is, but there's a lot of it about!
Flat B is problem flat and owned by freeholder, correct.


Positive Moves is calling me because the freeholder asked them to. I changed the locks to the front door after the break-ins week before last, plus suspicion that the old front door keys are with various people via the last 'tenant'. So I have keys. The freeholder and Positive Moves do not - yet.

westminster
01-03-2010, 22:00 PM
Yes, Stresshead rents The Coach House
I own Flat C top floor.
Don't know who extremely stressed is, but there's a lot of it about!
Flat B is problem flat and owned by freeholder, correct.


Positive Moves is calling me because the freeholder asked them to. I changed the locks to the front door after the break-ins week before last, plus suspicion that the old front door keys are with various people via the last 'tenant'. So I have keys. The freeholder and Positive Moves do not - yet.
I would not give access to Positive Moves. I would not say so, I would just be very unavailable when it came to suggested appointments. This won't prevent PM or FH gaining access ultimately, but it'll slow them down a bit.

I would also consult a specialist landlord/tenant solicitor and get advice on how to force the freeholder to abide by the terms of the lease, assuming your leases all contain a covenant not to cause a nuisance to neighbours. A very stiff letter from a solicitor can sometimes be all it takes to make people play ball. Failing that, there is the Leasehold Valuation Tribunal http://www.rpts.gov.uk/about_us/lvt.htm

You say no action can be taken by EHO against the tenants as they're not there long enough - so ask EHO to take action against the landlord. Be persistent. Failing that, if the scheme is actually funded by the council, contact local councillors/MP. Be aware that you may have to pursue this doggedly to get the desired result. Don't give up.

completelystressed!
02-03-2010, 09:07 AM
Result: I called "Positive Moves" and the current tenants moved out today. Positive Moves no longer wish to rent the property and are not putting anyone else in it until the tenancy ends, so there will only be private tenants in there from now on...phew!

Hi Stresshead
Please could you let me know who you spoke to at Positive Moves? I have names of two people to call there now, but I don't think they're very senior. I have looked up Positive moves on Charity Commission website - not a charity, so a private enterprise then that Southwark buys in to. The point is, you've been given one line and I've been given another. They definitely said that they ARE placing another 'case' in the flat. I need to keep my foot on the gas with this - would be great to have back-up. I'm composing letters to my landlord, CEO of Positive Moves (if they have one), Head of the looked after children team, head of housing and anyone else of influence that anyone suggests.

stresshead
02-03-2010, 21:33 PM
CompletelyStressed, I got your note, sorry haven't had chance to reply until now - have sent you a PM containing all the info I've managed to get. Can't believe you found my forum post - I hope it was by Googling 'Positive Moves'!