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pjb0150
19-02-2010, 12:22 PM
i have been told my section 21 may be invalid issued around 27 dec o9
here is the contract

Shared house agreement

Start Date of tenancy 11 oct 09
Between:-
(1) LL
and
(2) craig XXXXXX and caroline YYYYYY

1. DEMISE
Various rooms with shared facilities within

with the furniture and effects listed in the attached inventory and which the parties agree are in good condition unless otherwise stated in the said inventory (“effects”)

The tenant may end this agreement by one month’s written notice and the Landlord may end it by giving one month’s written notice...


3. RENT AND OUTGOINGS
The Tenant(s) each of them jointly and severally agree to pay.

3.1 Rent by monthly instalments of £ per month in advance and pay interest at the rate of 4 per centum per annum above the base rate from time to time of Natwest bank plc on any rent in arrears for more than fourteen days calculated from the date upon which such rent was due to be paid to the date upon which it is actually paid.

3.2 All Charges for gas , electricity, phone, internet, broadband, water, sewage , council tax, tv licence and any tv facilities such as sky supplied, rented and or used to the property during this tenancy.

3.3 all payments made into




4. TENANTS COVENANT / UNDERTAKINGS

The Tenant must:

4.1 occupy the property personally and not assign sub-let share or part with possession nor permit use or occupation by anyone else not in paying guests or lodgers and not to carry on any professional trade or business. Unless agreed with LL

4.2 keep the property and the effects clean including cleaning of windows .

4.3 report any damage loss or malfunction to mr pj brookman

4.4 The tenant may also use the washing machine, fridge, freezer, cooker but the maintenance and replacement of these items will be tenants responsibility

4.5not cut down remove or otherwise injure any tree shrubs or plants growing upon the premises or to alter the general character of the garden and throughout the whole of the tenancy to cultivate the garden in a reasonable manner according to the season of the year, minimum requirement being to keep lawns mown .

4.6Leave the property all appliances and the effects clean and free of rubbish at the end of the tenancy and all effects in position as identified on the inventory and hand over all keys to the property.

4.7Keep sufficient heat in the property to prevent damage from frost.


4.8 Not damage (fair wear and tear excepted) or remove from the property any of the effects and replace with similar articles of at least equal value any of the effects damaged or destroyed.

5. RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS

The Tenants must not

THAT IS THE FIRST PAGE
just to confirm -is all of this correct

1.i issue 2 section 21 notices one for each tenant -correct?-- different surnames- i think i issued just one originally .
2. this is a periodic ast so i need s21 4a ---correct ?

thanks in advance
phillip

jeffrey
19-02-2010, 12:29 PM
1. What is a 'shared house agreement', anyway?
2. Was the letting for a fixed term (length?)
3. If not, was it contractually periodic from the very start?
4. Is L resident too?
5. Does the rate of rent exceed £25 000 per year?
6. Was any deposit paid and, if so, was it protected by L?
7. Did the s.21 Notice mention s.21(1)(b) or s.21(4)(a)?

pjb0150
19-02-2010, 12:43 PM
shared house agreement is a wrong term --
i do not live there .
letting was not for a fixed term--
set up on a basis of see how we go
less than 25k
part deposist paid by t and in scheme and with prescibed info given to t

i need to asertain that this is a periodic tenancy so i can give the correct s21 notice
and if i need to issue 2 section 21 as the t are of different surnames

jeffrey
19-02-2010, 13:08 PM
1. If you created a contractual periodic tenancy, as I think you seem to have done, you can serve under s.21(4)(a).
2. Each letting is treated separately. If you let part to A and part to B, individual Notices are needed.
3. Each Notice should set a 'possession' date of:
a. at least two months from date of service; plus
b. up to & inc. next rent-month end.
4. If the letting began on 11 Oct. 2009 and rent falls due on that day each month, a s.21(4)(a) Notice served today- 19 Feb.- could demand possession 'after 10 May'.

westminster
19-02-2010, 13:17 PM
Please clarify, is there only one tenancy agreement, with several names on it as 'the Tenant' and the address of property as the whole house, or does each tenant have a separate tenancy agreement for a room in the house?

jeffrey
19-02-2010, 13:21 PM
Yes- is the letting to 'Craig' and 'Caroline' the only letting and does it relate to the whole property?

pjb0150
19-02-2010, 23:22 PM
yes there is only one letting of the whole house to craig xxx and caroline yyyyy these are common law man and wife i think --or partners and their family

so from what you are saying i need 2 x section 21 s4a one issuing to each one --correct

Preston
19-02-2010, 23:31 PM
yes there is only one letting of the whole house to craig xxx and caroline yyyyy these are common law man and wife i think --or partners and their family

so from what you are saying i need 2 x section 21 s4a one issuing to each one --correct

No, if Craig and Caroline have just one joint tenancy then you need just one notice. The notice must describe the tenancy accurately, so if it is a joint tenacy then both tenants names should be on the notice.

jeffrey
21-02-2010, 20:58 PM
No, if Craig and Caroline have just one joint tenancy then you need just one notice. The notice must describe the tenancy accurately, so if it is a joint tenacy then both tenants names should be on the notice.
I agree. Whatever a 'house share agreement' is supposed to be, this isn't one! Instead, it's a simple single letting of the whole house to two people as joint tenants. Any Notice from L is therefore addressed to both of them and served on both of them.

pjb0150
22-02-2010, 09:05 AM
yes there is only one letting of the whole house to craig xxx and caroline yyyyy these are common law man and wife i think --or partners and their family

so from what you are saying i need 2 x section 21 s4a one issuing to each one --is this correct...

and the dates are important too 2 months lear i believe
many thanks

jeffrey
22-02-2010, 10:39 AM
yes there is only one letting of the whole house to craig xxx and caroline yyyyy these are common law man and wife i think --or partners and their family

so from what you are saying i need 2 x section 21 s4a one issuing to each one --is this correct...

and the dates are important too 2 months lear i believe
many thanks
No. You need one Notice and it's under s.21(4)(a). Address it to both joint tenants; serve it on both.

westminster
22-02-2010, 11:23 AM
yes there is only one letting of the whole house to craig xxx and caroline yyyyy these are common law man and wife i think --or partners and their family

so from what you are saying i need 2 x section 21 s4a one issuing to each one --is this correct...

and the dates are important too 2 months lear i believe
many thanks

ONE LETTING THEREFORE ONE NOTICE. Both/all tenants' names on the one notice. Keep a copy of the notice and post another copy addressed to the tenants. It is essential to get proof of posting, and keep it together with the copy of the notice, in order to prove the notice was delivered. A free certificate of posting will suffice, especially if it's possible that tenant may refuse receipt of a signed-for delivery, or neglect to collect it from the sorting office if tenant is out when delivery is attempted.

Jeffrey has previously explained how to work out the expiry date of the notice.



3. Notice should set a 'possession' date of:
a. at least two months from date of service; plus
b. up to & inc. next rent-month end.
4. If the letting began on 11 Oct. 2009 and rent falls due on that day each month, a s.21(4)(a) Notice served today- 19 Feb.- could demand possession 'after 10 May'.

pjb0150
03-03-2010, 10:30 AM
i cannot find my copy of the section 21 issued to tenants --their solicitor has the original.
can i get it or a copy from their solicitor -i need to clarify details and very soon start the next stage.
thanks all

westminster
03-03-2010, 13:59 PM
i have been told my section 21 may be invalid issued around 27 dec o9


i cannot find my copy of the section 21 issued to tenants --their solicitor has the original.
can i get it or a copy from their solicitor -i need to clarify details and very soon start the next stage.
thanks all
If you mean the s.21 notice which "may be invalid" then why do you need a copy - to see whether you accidentally got it right?

Just serve a valid one. And this time don't lose your copy or the proof of delivery. You won't get very far with getting a possession order if you can't prove you served valid notice.

pjb0150
04-03-2010, 15:14 PM
section 21 is about to expire what do i need to do then which forms
which method to use is best
pcol
and the merits of which route and downsides
there is also 1800 of outstanding rent to collect
thanks all

Paul Gibbs
04-03-2010, 19:12 PM
the claim for possession would be form N5B. you can use PCOL or post the forms to the county court nearest to the property address.

You can also use the section 8 route, but have you served a notice yet?

Under section 21 you would not get a judgment for the arrears, only a possession order.

pjb0150
05-03-2010, 09:23 AM
thank you paul yes i have served section 8 on various grounds -
but i dont want him paying in an amount on the court day and me not getting possesion
so its an n5 for possesion

and what about arrears .this person is benefits btw


i have just found out that t is claiming he paid me in cash on a certain date -he is claiming this to lha
a total lie
how can i get him prosecuted for that .
the last time i was down there i was threatened by 3 people --police were called -no action taken ..
many thanks for your input

pjb0150
05-03-2010, 09:41 AM
i think my tenancy is a periodic one --would n5b be the right form --

westminster
05-03-2010, 13:04 PM
pjb - as you seem to be struggling with the legalities of eviction/possession procedure, I would suggest that it may be more cost effective to employ a solicitor experienced in landlord & tenant law to do this on your behalf.

Moderator1
07-03-2010, 21:00 PM
Two separate threads by same member have been merged here. Do not cause problems by starting continuation threads; use the same one.

pjb0150
08-03-2010, 17:40 PM
well i am catching up real fast-- reading all these messages on here ..n5b it is. --however is there no other route that will get me possesion and the arrears
or will i have to go for them seperatly ....

and i bet the deposit lodged with dps cannot be used to clear arrears can it ?

westminster
08-03-2010, 17:48 PM
well i am catching up real fast
Catching up fast? After three months of asking the same questions again and again? :rolleyes:

Please put everyone out of their misery and find a landlord & tenant solicitor to handle the eviction on your behalf.

smiley132
10-03-2010, 14:32 PM
please pjb0150 leave names of people out of it that is my advice also get yourslef a solictor it might help matters aye