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ftgpmb
12-02-2010, 13:45 PM
I am the LL in a county court claim regarding late compliance with the tenancy deposit protection legislation. I have just been told by the county court that my hearing will be delayed pending the outcome of an Appeal court hearing of Honeysuckle Properties v Fletcher & Ors scheduled for 7 May 2010. I have found the case on the HMCS web page under case number20092163. I can't post the link unfortunately.

Does anyone know more about this case?
Any way to find out more about it to see how similar my circumstances are to this case?

westminster
12-02-2010, 14:15 PM
Sorry, don't know details of this case. It must be one of the ones referred to in the second last paragraph of this case report - which is also relevant to you as it involves late protection with the DPS and is, I think, the first High Court ruling.

http://painsmith.wordpress.com/2010/02/12/high-court-decision-on-tdp/

ftgpmb
13-02-2010, 21:32 PM
Thanks Westminster. You are right, the link to the High Court ruling you provided does make me feel better about my case (asuming it isn't reversed on Appeal). I was wondering how I might find out the facts about the Honeysuckle Properties v Fletcher & Ors case. If this has already been ruled on by the High Court, surely the ruling is availble somewhere? Or has it gone direct from County Court to Appeal Court?

westminster
13-02-2010, 23:46 PM
Thanks Westminster. You are right, the link to the High Court ruling you provided does make me feel better about my case (asuming it isn't reversed on Appeal). I was wondering how I might find out the facts about the Honeysuckle Properties v Fletcher & Ors case. If this has already been ruled on by the High Court, surely the ruling is availble somewhere? Or has it gone direct from County Court to Appeal Court?
My knowledge of the system is extremely elementary, so I've submitted a comment to the PainSmith blog (currently awaiting moderation) asking for further details including the case you mention.

ftgpmb
14-02-2010, 09:43 AM
Thanks Westminster. I just checked and Painsmith has replied -I still can't post hyperlinks - but doesn't seem to know any more about this case. I suppose I could contact Manchester County Court and request the case documentation?

ftgpmb
14-02-2010, 10:11 AM
couldn't I?

ftgpmb
14-02-2010, 10:12 AM
Here's the Painsmith's comment:

http://painsmith.wordpress.com/2010/02/12/high-court-decision-on-tdp/#comment-275

westminster
14-02-2010, 12:52 PM
Here's the Painsmith's comment:

http://painsmith.wordpress.com/2010/02/12/high-court-decision-on-tdp/#comment-275

Interesting. It does sound as though Honeysuckle could be this rumoured case.

Yes, it seems you can request case documents. See CPR 5.4C
http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/parts/part05.htm#IDAMDI5B

Plain English explanation in this link, and quoted below:
http://www.bristows.com/?pid=46&nid=911&level=2


The Civil Procedure (Amendment) Rules 2006 came into force on 2 October 2006. The new Rule 5.4C allows non-parties to obtain copies of any statements of case on the court file (or judgments or orders given or made in public) without the court's permission. Statements of case include, in addition to the claim form, particulars of claim, defence (and any additional claims brought by the defendant), reply and replies to requests for further information. The new rule does however exclude access to any documents filed with, attached to, or intended to be filed or served with such statements of case unless the court gives permission. For example, a copy of a contract that a claimant alleges has been breached might be attached to the particulars of claim but would not automatically be available to the public under this rule.

A party or any person identified in a statement of case can restrict access to such documents by applying to restrict the persons or classes of persons who may obtain a copy of a statement of case or order that only a redacted version be obtained. Unfortunately neither the new rule nor its practice direction provide guidance on what factors a court will take into consideration when deciding whether to grant such an order. It appears that the courts will have a wide discretion and they are likely to take into account factors such as the confidential nature of the documents and the damage that might be done to a party if they were made available to the public. A non-party may still apply to the court to obtain a statement of case subject to such a restriction.

Post again if you find out anything. I'd keep an eye on the PainSmith blog too; someone else may know about the Honeysuckle case and leave a comment.

ftgpmb
05-05-2010, 21:29 PM
Still nobody seems to know what the particulars of the Honeysuckle case are. See:
http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2010/04/30/more-key-tenancy-deposit-cases-come-to-court/
We'll find out on Friday!

Blackcatgirl
08-06-2010, 10:26 AM
Have details been released regarding the Appeal? I am in Court in a few weeks time and am desperate to get a copy of the two appeals heard at the beginning of May.

All info gratefully received.

westminster
08-06-2010, 10:35 AM
Nothing announced yet AFAIK. Keep an eye on the PainSmith blog (links in previous posts) as they will definitely post about it very soon after the rulings are known.

If they are still not announced by the time of your hearing, it's possible the hearing will be adjourned if the rulings are likely to affect your case.

ftgpmb
18-06-2010, 19:35 PM
Something may have happened. I just received a Notice of Directions Hearing today to be heard in county cout 1st week in July. Since my hearing was vacated and the case stayed pending oucoming of the Honeysuckle Properties V Fletcher and Ors case I am asuming something has changed.

I telephoned the court and they said they could see nothing on their computer system to indicate anything ref the court of appeals judgement but that "sometimes the judiciary know more"!

Case tracker still shows Reserved Judgement handed down 7th May.

Surely this is a bit unfair. don't I have a right to know the court decision before I show up for a direction hearing which could decide my fate?

ps. come on England!!

Blackcatgirl
20-07-2010, 16:38 PM
Claim dismissed
No award for costs given

"consent order" for return of deposit from DPS suspense acct where it has sat for 9 months pending a court order for its return. DPS didnt 'protect' deposit - no free ADR.

Can I appeal if/when the decisions of these 2 cases are seen? Or does my 21 days to lodge an appeal start now? :(

dominic
20-07-2010, 16:42 PM
Claim dismissed
No award for costs given

"consent order" for return of deposit from DPS suspense acct where it has sat for 9 months pending a court order for its return. DPS didnt 'protect' deposit - no free ADR.

Can I appeal if/when the decisions of these 2 cases are seen? Or does my 21 days to lodge an appeal start now? :(

Is there not another thread concerning this?

Blackcatgirl
20-07-2010, 16:48 PM
Sorry dominic - this was specifically asking about the 21 days to appeal. Or does that not matter if the decision for these two cases are published after the 21 days are "up"... is there another deadline?
Grasping at straws and advice

thoughtful
20-07-2010, 19:54 PM
Hi

Going through something similar myself

Can i just ask did you protection within tenancy agreement date? and if so are tenants still in your property? Have your returned their deposit??

Paul Gibbs
22-07-2010, 09:26 AM
Claim dismissed
No award for costs given

"consent order" for return of deposit from DPS suspense acct where it has sat for 9 months pending a court order for its return. DPS didnt 'protect' deposit - no free ADR.

Can I appeal if/when the decisions of these 2 cases are seen? Or does my 21 days to lodge an appeal start now? :(

I am confused. You indicate your claim was dismissed, but then refer to a consent order?

Your 21 day time limit runs from the date of the order.

Blackcatgirl
22-07-2010, 12:39 PM
I am confused. You indicate your claim was dismissed, but then refer to a consent order?

Your 21 day time limit runs from the date of the order.

Hahaha - you're confused... so am I! :)

Thank you for confirming that the 21 days is from the date of the order.

Judge even said that there was a breach of the HA yet still dismissed my case.
I recall her words to be "Do you want your deposit money back?" to which I said "of course" and that "of course" led to her to then mention a Consent Order. I did question it at the time as the DPS stated that they needed a Court Order for its release. (As all my questions and statements in court were dismissed by her, this question was too)

Seeing a specialist solicitor tomorrow about appealing.

Blackcatgirl
29-07-2010, 12:37 PM
The appeal process has now started and I shall update the forum along my long journey to the High Court in London.