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Sillyme
09-02-2010, 23:43 PM
Hi 1st post here,

I am here asking for help on behalf of a family member.

Its been near on 6 months since she left the property with her friend.

Find below all the emails from her friend to the Landlord.

All names removed.

Starting with the 1st to last one in December, and I believe 3 other emails since with no reply.

I also notice that she has not received "deposit protection paperwork" although asked for.

The falt was left in an immaculate condition, they have had no invoice for any costs that may have occurred.

Here we go

Them to Landlord

Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009

Subject: RE:



Hi XXX

Did you manage to get that information on our deposit in the deposit protection scheme?

Thank you

Regards,

XXXXX

-----------------------------------------------------
LandLord to them

Subject: Re:
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009

XXXX

Its the XXXXX --- XXXXXXXX- XXXXXX deposit scheme and its with Dispute services.

As mentioned, its business as normal - so please have no concern even though it all sounds rather official.

Regards

XXXXX

--------------------------------------------------------

Them to LL

Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009

Subject: RE:



XXXXX

Thank you for your time last week, it was greatly appreciated.

However, my flat mate brought to my attention yesterday another letter from Wragge & co regarding the court case on Friday 7th August 2009.

I gave XXXXXX a call and she quite abruptly told me that the court case is still going ahead on the 7th August.

It was mine and my flat mate's understanding that it was all sorted. Can you shed any light on the matter?

Thank you in advance for your time and co-operation,

With Regards,

XXXXXX

--------------------------------------------------------
LL to Them

Subject: Re:
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009

XXXXXX

Please be assured all is ok. I have come to an agreement with my mortgage provider Birmingham Midshires to pay an agreed amount every month - all the hearing is about is to cement this by way of a legal charge and possibly a suspended order which means that I will need to maintain payments, which obviously I will.

I would assure you that I am a responsible landlord owning 30 properties, and although like most , have been affected by the downturn am still holding my own.

Regards

xxxxxxxxx

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Them to LL


Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009

Subject: RE:



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thank you for being reassuring in your last email. XXXX and I still feel a little uncertain in the current situation we're in. We have spoken to citizens advice and they have advised us to delay the rent payment until; after the court date confirms what you have agreed with your mortage provider and to request asap our deposit protection scheme details in writing due to not receiving them in writing in March within the 14 day time bracket.

Thank you for your continued time and co-operation

Regards

XXXXX & XXXXXX


-------------------------------------------------------------------




LL to Them


Subject: Re:
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009

s xxxxxxxx

I note your email - however without your rent I cannot make my mortgage payments and if this is the case Birmingham Midshire will take repossesion action without doubt.

The reason the mortgage arrears amounted was that I was without a tenant for 3 months late last year. Since that date I have been with tenants have have kept up to date with mortgage payments but there are arrears still.

I would urge you to pay - you are liable to pay rent under your tenancy agreement !

The hearing on Friday is to ensure that they seek a deffered order for repossession that they could action should I not keep up with my payments - so you see how important it is - if you do not pay then they could repossess within a month.

regards
xxxxxxxxxxxx


------------------------------------------------

Them to LL

Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009

Subject: RE:


XXXXXXXX

Hope all is well.

I have sent the £XXX rent for this month.

Just a quick email to confirm that you got the letter of termination of our contract?

Due to recent events, both my flat mate and I have decided that renting is too uncertain and un-necessary stress.

We understand and respect that in regards to the one months notice requirements, our termination date falls short of the one month agreed in the contract by a couple of days. We understand if you wish to prolong the leaving date by a week or two but in regards to time of year we have recently been led to believe (by several letting agents) that this is the busiest time for landlords to obtain tenants.

I wait your decision on this matter.

Thank you for your time,

XXXXX & XXXXXX


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

LL to Them




Subject: Re:
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009

xxxxxxxx
I received your letter yesterday 12th August, although I note your letter is dated 5th

Obviously I am dissapointed you are terminating, what I would ask is that the months notice ends 12th September as I have already lost a week in remarketing.

However as you have been good tenants I am happy to allow you to stay if you want from month to month until you decide to vacate with 1 months notice in writing which I would accept by telephone on the day you write the letter.

Have a think and let me know - obviously if you decide to do this, this email would suffice in varying the terms of the tenancy you signed.

Regards

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Them to LL


Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009

Subject: RE:



Hi XXXXX

XXXXX and I are both happy for our months notice to end on 12th September.

Thank you for your time

Regards

XXXXXX







LL to them

Subject: Re:
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009

xxxxxxx

Thanks for your confirmation -I have instucted XXXX letting agents to relet.

I would be most grateful if you could keep Birmingham Midshires draconian proceedings(now settled) confidential and not inform XXX lettings as I have 5 other apartments in the building which they deal with and I do not want this small set back with XXXXX only to affect my relationship with them.

Many thanks and good luck with your move



Regards

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Them to LL

Sent: Wednesday, September 02,

Subject: RE:



Hi XXXXX

I was asked by XXX Lettings if we could move out by the 10th September instead of the 12th as he has found new tennants that want to move in on this date and said they wouldn't be able to move in otherwise.

I have agreed to this and said that I would get in touch with you to let you know and to sort out getting my deposit back.

I thought I had to get the deposit back through XXXX Lettings but he informed me that I have to get it from you. He did say that you can contact him to reassure you that we have left the apartment in as good as if not better condition than when we moved in.

My sort code is :XXXXX

My Account Number is: XXXXXX

Name on Account is: XXXXXXXX

Many thanks for your time and co-operation

Regards

XXXXXXX










LL To Them


Subject: Re:
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009

xxxxxx

Thanks for your email.

Once all your belongings are moved out and the place cleaned, XXX lettings will inspect and report back that I can return your deposit which I shall then request from the deposit scheme.

Thanks

Regards

xxxxxx

But no paperwork to suggest it ever was.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Them to LL



Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009

Subject: RE:



Hi xxxxxx

Can I ask what the latest is on getting our deposit back? Last I was told was it would take about 7 days.

In case you need my bank details:

My sort code is : xxxxxx

My Account Number is: xxxxxxxxx

Name on Account is: xxxxxxxxx

Many thanks for your time and co-operation

Regards
xxxxxxx

------------------------------------------

LL to Them



Subject: Re:
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009

xxxxx

I am chasing my the administrators of my deposit scheme to pay back the deposit -hopefully shouldn't be long now

Regards


xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Them to LL



Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009

Subject: RE:



xxxxxxx,

What is the latest on the desposit now?

I'm sorry to keep on asking but it has been some time and I am having to pay rent where I am now and need the money.

Regards,

xxxxxxxx





LL to them


Subject: Re:
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009

xxxxxx


I have still not received the deposit back - I am chasing and will let you know as soon as the DPS pay it back

Regards

xxxxxxx

Sillyme
09-02-2010, 23:45 PM
Them to LL



Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009

Subject: RE:



XXXXXX

The deposit reimbersment is now in excess of 8 weeks. I have spoken to other people that have rented previously and each one of them has said that this is more than double the waiting time.

My flat mate XXXXXXXXX whom was the other tennant on our contract will be conversing with her legal advisor tomorrow about this matter, as ideally we would now like this cleared up within the next 1-2 weeks.

We can't understand why the hold up with our payment from XXXX XXXX inc XXXXX & XXXXX deposit scheme is such a lengthy one.

I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Regards

xxxxxxxx





Him to Them


Subject: Re:
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009


xxxxx

I have chased again and am promised this will be credited back within the next 10 days

Thanks for your patience

Regards

xxxxxxxx







Them to Him





Subject: RE: LEGAL ACTION
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009

xxxxxxx

After numerous emails sent now regarding our deposit; which should have by law been settled within ten days of leaving the property, it is our regret that both xxxxxxxx and I will be seeking legal action unless our deposit is paid by Friday 18th December 2009.

Regards

xxxxxxxxx








They never had any confirmation that the deposit was held with the protection scheme.

He clearly said in emails it was with them.


Is this just a case now of a Letter before action addressed to the Land Lord, and not the letting agents.

If so do we have a template anywhere, I shall go searching now.

Btw, they have proof of deposit been paid, bank transfer and receipt, also all rent payments were on time


Sorry for all the posts but it would only allow me to copy an paste it so many at the time, but at least you get the full picture

driver
10-02-2010, 00:46 AM
Suggest that they just issue proceeding via MCOL: https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

jeffrey
10-02-2010, 10:47 AM
Sillyme: your posts are way too long. Please summarise your question(s).

Snorkerz
10-02-2010, 11:28 AM
Can't read through that lot, so let me ask...

Did the tenancy start after 6/4/07?
Do you know if the deposit was protected or not?
What were the tenancy dates?
When did you give written notice?
Do you have proof LL got this notice?

Sillyme
10-02-2010, 11:39 AM
Can't read through that lot, so let me ask...

Did the tenancy start after 6/4/07? YES



Do you know if the deposit was protected or not? Checking this out as we speak, He has stated it was in the emails above, but never been given a certifcate.


What were the tenancy dates? 6 Mth shorthold Tenancy, 6th march till 10th September


When did you give written notice?Letter Dated the 5th of August, he received 12th of August according to his reply via email.


Do you have proof LL got this notice? Confirmation given from him in Email.




Very Sorry for the long First post, I just thought if all put up once would suffice.

Thank you for any help here.

Will check back in an hour or so

Snorkerz
10-02-2010, 12:04 PM
6 Mth shorthold Tenancy, 6th march till 10th September is not 6 months. Presumbly, the tenancy was 6th March to 5th September? Therefore notice letter of 12th August would give a leaving date (rent liability) of 5th November. (Had you left 5/9 there would have been no rent liability)

Have you chased MyDeposits about your refund? I believe if the LL is not playing ball, they will refund you and then chase LL.

If the deposit was not protected (or even if the prescribed information was not provided) you should be able to get your full deposit back through MCOL - although this would not prevent LL subsequently taking you to court for any amount that was owing (but he'd have to prove what was due).

You will also read that you can obtain compensation of 3 x the deposit value for non-protected deposits. It is true, but more complex and financially risky.

Sillyme
10-02-2010, 12:56 PM
6 Mth shorthold Tenancy, 6th march till 10th September is not 6 months.

Moved out the 10th of sept, instead of the agreed date of 12th sept


Presumbly, the tenancy was 6th March to 5th September? Therefore notice letter of 12th August would give a leaving date (rent liability) of 5th November. (Had you left 5/9 there would have been no rent liability)


Notice letter was dated 5th August. He said he never got it till the 12th

All agreed for September for vacating





Have you chased MyDeposits about your refund? I believe if the LL is not playing ball, they will refund you and then chase LL.

We are checking with the 3 agencys to see if it was protected.


If the deposit was not protected (or even if the prescribed information was not provided) you should be able to get your full deposit back through MCOL - although this would not prevent LL subsequently taking you to court for any amount that was owing (but he'd have to prove what was due).


Agreed that nothing was owed

You will also read that you can obtain compensation of 3 x the deposit value for non-protected deposits. It is true, but more complex and financially risky.



Is this really worth the risk? We would be happy just to get the deposit back

westminster
10-02-2010, 13:38 PM
Is this really worth the risk? We would be happy just to get the deposit back
So issue a claim against the LL using Money Claim Online.

Sillyme
10-02-2010, 14:02 PM
Should we send him a letter before action first?


Asking in the letter for our deposit back, and if finding that he never used a deposit protection service, state that in the letter he never complied with the law as regards deposit's, but emphasise we only want our deposit back.

Sillyme
10-02-2010, 17:41 PM
We have now confirmed with all 3 deposit agency's, that no deposit was held with any of them.


Would it be a good idea to now send this letter i got from another part of the forum



Letter Before Action

Dear Mr XXXXXXXX

RE: 123 High Street, Anytown, AT1 2AA

On the XXX of XXX 20XX I/We paid you a tenancy deposit of £XXX in respect of the above property.

The Housing Act 2004 introduced the concept of "Tenancy Deposit Protection" and obliges private landlords to protect/register all tenancy deposits with one of 3 approved schemes.

I/We have verified with all three schemes that the deposit you hold was NOT protected by any scheme. This is unlawful.

You must refund the outstanding balance of my/our deposit IN FULL within 14 days. If you fail to do so, I/we shall sue you for the balance due PLUS the statutory penalty for non-protection of deposits, which is three times the value of the deposit.

Yours sincerely

jeffrey
10-02-2010, 17:46 PM
Good. That sounds business-like.

obiwan
10-02-2010, 17:58 PM
You need to decide... do you just want the deposit back, or do you want to claim for the 3x penalty too?

You said

Is this really worth the risk? We would be happy just to get the deposit back

but then the letter before action you quoted mentions that you will be claiming the 3x penalty for non-protection of the deposit.

jeffrey
10-02-2010, 18:02 PM
You need to decide... do you just want the deposit back, or do you want to claim for the 3x penalty too?

You said

Is this really worth the risk? We would be happy just to get the deposit back

but then the letter before action you quoted mentions that you will be claiming the 3x penalty for non-protection of the deposit.
Why not claim both?

westminster
10-02-2010, 18:02 PM
That sounds fine, though you should note that, as Snorkerz pointed out in a previous post, sueing for the 3x deposit sanction may be risky and complex, because these cases are no longer usually allocated to the small claims track, court fees are therefore much higher, you are exposed to the defendant's legal costs, and there is no guarantee you will win as the statute is open to interpretation.

Also, such a claim cannot be issued using Money Claim Online. See
http://painsmith.wordpress.com/2009/05/21/proper-place-for-tds-claims/

This is not to say you do not have a case for claiming the 3x sanction, only that you should seek proper legal advice before doing so, and it would be irresponsible to recommend you pursue the claim as a litigant-in-person unless you are fully conversant with the statute and multi-track procedure, and fully aware of the risks.

If you just want your deposit back, as you say, the simpler and easier option is to claim just for the deposit.

Snorkerz
10-02-2010, 23:40 PM
Good. That sounds business-like.
Yeah - I claim copyright!

You need to decide... do you just want the deposit back, or do you want to claim for the 3x penalty too?


If you just want your deposit back, as you say, the simpler and easier option is to claim just for the deposit.I don't see a problem in including the threat for 3x in the LBA but only proceeding with a MCOL for the deposit. Yer average 'bad' landlord wouldn't necesarily see MCOL as much of a threat as essentially all he will be made to pay back (if the tenant bothers claiming) is what he is already holding from the tenant.

Sillyme
11-02-2010, 12:25 PM
Thanks everyone:D

I do understand the risk of the x3 claim, I also believe the letter the way that Snorkerz produced just explains that a threat is there for 3x the amount, but we do not necessarily have to pursue that course of action.

With that threat he may just return the amount owed, then all is resolved to everybody's satisfaction.

We shall see from the response we get, as to were we go next, hopefully no MCOL, but if we have to,we of course will.

Sillyme
11-02-2010, 21:31 PM
Just out of curiosity, If the LL actually returns our deposit because of the letter that we send.

Would it still be possible to chase him through the courts for the 3x

Snorkerz
11-02-2010, 21:34 PM
Just out of curiosity, If the LL actually returns our deposit because of the letter that we send.

Would it still be possibly to chase him through the courts for the 3x

Today - no

However, there is a landmark case ongoing at present and the judge has declared that the decision will be handed down tommorrow. Wait and see!

Sillyme
11-02-2010, 22:05 PM
Today - no

However, there is a landmark case ongoing at present and the judge has declared that the decision will be handed down tommorrow. Wait and see!


Thanks for the swift reply

westminster
14-02-2010, 01:39 AM
The judgment has been announced, but it doesn't really have a direct bearing on your question - i.e., can I still claim for non-compliance even if the LL returns my deposit?

http://painsmith.wordpress.com/2010/02/12/high-court-decision-on-tdp/

The general view is, if you get your deposit back, you don't have a cause of action.

Sillyme
14-02-2010, 23:08 PM
Thanks again, just waiting on a fax from the letting agent, to confirm our inventory check list when we left is all in order, and the rent paid for the extra few days.

Just to confirm we owe no money, then the letter is on it's way, I shall keep you updated.