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rizwany84
05-02-2010, 22:53 PM
Hi

I have a court hearing this Monday. Tenant is more than 2 months in rent arrears. I have not sent any paperwork to the court, as it was not stated anywhere that I should. I have received anything in the post from the court.

1. Tenant use to pay by cash in hand. I then use to give him an updated rent statement. In court how can I actually prove he owes more than 2 months rent (as I think the tenant may say he has paid)?

2. I have a ‘pack’ ready to give to the court on Monday. It contains everything from my tenancy agreement, reminder letters of non payment, rent statement, inventory, and certificates. Should I put a contents page of some sort at the front, and how many copies o this should I have?

3. As this is the first time I am attending courts, by myself, without a solicitor is there anything I should be aware? Or any advise for me to get my PO?

Thanks in advance for any help and advice.

PaulF
06-02-2010, 09:19 AM
I don't think you have prepared your case very well at all so don't be surprised if your case (under what Section of the HA your action is for because you don't say) is rejected. You haven't been very clear.

rizwany84
06-02-2010, 20:08 PM
I don't think you have prepared your case very well at all so don't be surprised if your case (under what Section of the HA your action is for because you don't say) is rejected. You haven't been very clear.

Please could you explain how I have not prepared for my case very well? It does not state anywhere that I have to send in any of my paperwok beforehand.

I taking the tenant to court on ground 8, 10 and 11. Tenant has standard AST in England for 2 years, with 9 months remaining. Non payment for no reasons whatsoever.

I just wanted some advice on anything i should do in particular before this Monday (my court date) or actually on the day.

bullybantam
06-02-2010, 20:32 PM
3. As this is the first time I am attending courts, by myself, without a solicitor is there anything I should be aware? Or any advise for me to get my PO?



Why not get a solicitor? You'll a learn a lot and maybe can do without one next time around...

Snorkerz
06-02-2010, 20:34 PM
What information did you supply with your original application to the court?

mind the gap
06-02-2010, 21:18 PM
The link below from the Residential Landlords' Association is a bit outfacing, but if you read the right section (ignore 'Accelerated Possession' and scroll down the page to 'Possessions with a Court Hearing' ), it does detail what you need to send/take to court, how many copies, etc.

http://www.rla.org.uk/landlord/documents/rent_arrears/complete_courtPapers.shtml

If you discover your paperwork is not in order and it is too late to do anything about it, perhaps you will have to start again (either with the s8 notice or with the application for a court order or both).

Good luck.

Snorkerz
06-02-2010, 21:32 PM
Thanks MTG - I have favouritised (not in spell check!) that link.

Ericthelobster
07-02-2010, 10:02 AM
I have not sent any paperwork to the court, as it was not stated anywhere that I should.
You'll get very little, if any help from the courts: any advice you get from them will have to be dragged out. If you're doing it alone, you really need to swot up and get advice from forums like this and/or landlord associations.


Tenant use to pay by cash in hand. I then use to give him an updated rent statement. In court how can I actually prove he owes more than 2 months rent (as I think the tenant may say he has paid)?A golden rule is always to assume that the tenant will lie through his teeth, and that if he does, how can you shoot him down? So you're dead right to be concerned. I'd be very wary of accepting cash for just this reason.

Did you pay the cash into a bank account (ie can you show credits on your statements which match up with the cash payments?) If not I'm not sure what you do...


I have a ‘pack’ ready to give to the court on Monday. It contains everything from my tenancy agreement, reminder letters of non payment, rent statement, inventory, and certificates. Should I put a contents page of some sort at the front, and how many copies o this should I have?Sounds good, though this should have been submitted in advance to all parties (unless possibly you were using Possession Claim OnLine?) so they've had a chance to study them before the hearing - possibly the judge may throw it out if he hasn't got time now. You need a copy for yourself, the judge, and the defendant. Certainly prepare an index, and label the documents 'exhibit 1', 'exhibit 2' etc. Also you should prepare a witness statement - a formal document written in legal style - which sets out your whole case and refers to the exhibits.

A couple of useful threads I keep saved:
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=16871
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=15851

... but plenty more if you hunt (especially make sure you check up on witness statement format - get that right and hopefully there's a fair chance the judge will be sufficiently impressed to read it!).

Good luck! let us know how it goes.

Snorkerz
07-02-2010, 10:20 AM
1. Tenant use to pay by cash in hand. I then use to give him an updated rent statement. In court how can I actually prove he owes more than 2 months rent (as I think the tenant may say he has paid)?

Logic says it would work like this...

L proves rent is owed, by showing AST
L declares what has been paid
If T disagrees with what has been paid, T proves their point with receipts etc.

I am not sure it is possible for L to prove what T has not paid, only for T to prove what he has.

jeffrey
08-02-2010, 10:39 AM
You'll get very little, if any help from the courts: any advice you get from them will have to be dragged out. If you're doing it alone, you really need to swot up and get advice from forums like this and/or landlord associations.
Yes. The Courts Service is not there to advise either party. It assumes that a party to litigation:
a. is legally represented; or
b. otherwise, understands what he/she is doing.

Unless a or b applies, do not litigate!

rizwany84
08-02-2010, 20:31 PM
Thanks for the advice so far.

Maybe I should have explained my case a bit better. AST in England started on 14.11.2008 for 2 years. All paperwork correct, such as Gas Certificate, EPC, AST, Inventory, etc. Rent is £270 per fortnight.

Tenant was paying fine until he quit his job and became self employed. Instead of paying £270 every fortnight by standing order, he started giving £100 one week, £80 the next and so on cash. He said he had cash flow problems with the business. Every time he paid, I use to give him an updated rent statement (but only when the total use to accumulate to £270). He became into arrears by more than 2 months. I issued a section 8 on grounds 8, 10 and 11. Then I used PCOL.

Today was my court hearing. He was there with someone from Citizens Advice Bureau. The judge adjourned the case for 28 day. The tenant basically said he had paid more than what was written on my rental statement. The judge then asked me to produce a rental statement which actually shows what he paid and when, rather than what I showed him (rent is not paid until the full £270 is received). I have my bank paying in book, which shows exactly how much he paid and when, so I will be writing this in a witness statement and posting it to the court and defendant.

He is from Eastern Europe, has a wife and 4 children, two under 18 months. I am not being racist or anything but how could he have more children when his financial situation isn’t great?

I admit some of it is my fault, by not doing proper pre tenancy check, by only having 6 months or 1 year tenancy rather than two. But I have been so good to him, I don’t know why some people think they can live in a house for free.

Sorry for rambling and thanks for listening and all the advice.

SALL
09-02-2010, 08:53 AM
Thanks for the advice so far.

Maybe I should have explained my case a bit better. AST in England started on 14.11.2008 for 2 years. All paperwork correct, such as Gas Certificate, EPC, AST, Inventory, etc. Rent is £270 per fortnight.

Tenant was paying fine until he quit his job and became self employed. Instead of paying £270 every fortnight by standing order, he started giving £100 one week, £80 the next and so on cash. He said he had cash flow problems with the business. Every time he paid, I use to give him an updated rent statement (but only when the total use to accumulate to £270). He became into arrears by more than 2 months. I issued a section 8 on grounds 8, 10 and 11. Then I used PCOL.

Today was my court hearing. He was there with someone from Citizens Advice Bureau. The judge adjourned the case for 28 day. The tenant basically said he had paid more than what was written on my rental statement. The judge then asked me to produce a rental statement which actually shows what he paid and when, rather than what I showed him (rent is not paid until the full £270 is received). I have my bank paying in book, which shows exactly how much he paid and when, so I will be writing this in a witness statement and posting it to the court and defendant.

He is from Eastern Europe, has a wife and 4 children, two under 18 months. I am not being racist or anything but how could he have more children when his financial situation isn’t great?

I admit some of it is my fault, by not doing proper pre tenancy check, by only having 6 months or 1 year tenancy rather than two. But I have been so good to him, I don’t know why some people think they can live in a house for free.

Sorry for rambling and thanks for listening and all the advice.

What do you mean by that? A smaller term tenancy is actually better than longer term one, when dealing with new tenants.

Ericthelobster
09-02-2010, 09:04 AM
The judge adjourned the case for 28 day. The tenant basically said he had paid more than what was written on my rental statement. The judge then asked me to produce a rental statement which actually shows what he paid and when, rather than what I showed him (rent is not paid until the full £270 is received). I have my bank paying in book, which shows exactly how much he paid and when, so I will be writing this in a witness statement and posting it to the court and defendant.Hmm. If that's what you were basing your case on, I think you should probably be grateful the judge didn't simply throw it out completely rather than giving you another chance to prepare properly.


He is from Eastern Europe, has a wife and 4 children, two under 18 months. I am not being racist or anything but how could he have more children when his financial situation isn’t great?I would just keep those thoughts in your head if I were you.

rizwany84
09-02-2010, 10:05 AM
What do you mean by that? A smaller term tenancy is actually better than longer term one, when dealing with new tenants.

I am saying instead me signing a 2 year AST I should have only done a 6 month tenancy instead.

SALL
09-02-2010, 10:06 AM
I would just keep those thoughts in your head if I were you.


OP seems like Rodents friend. Rodent also has issue will a certian people having kids.

rizwany84
09-02-2010, 10:07 AM
Hmm. If that's what you were basing your case on, I think you should probably be grateful the judge didn't simply throw it out completely rather than giving you another chance to prepare properly.

Sorry for being ignorant but what do you mean exacty?



I would just keep those thoughts in your head if I were you.

Will do.

jeffrey
09-02-2010, 11:24 AM
Sorry for being ignorant but what do you mean exacty?
I guess that he meant that you lacked proper evidence sufficient to set-out the financial position.
I believe that the Court will want full details. Why not do a tabulation showing:
a. down left side, each date on which rent fell due and the amount falling due; and
b. down right side, each date on which a payment was made and the amount paid (plus the resultant credit or debit figure c/f)?

rizwany84
09-02-2010, 20:20 PM
I guess that he meant that you lacked proper evidence sufficient to set-out the financial position.
I believe that the Court will want full details. Why not do a tabulation showing:
a. down left side, each date on which rent fell due and the amount falling due; and
b. down right side, each date on which a payment was made and the amount paid (plus the resultant credit or debit figure c/f)?

I have done this now (with photocopies of the bank paying in book as evidence). I need to send one copy to the court and one to the tenant within 7 days. Then tenant has 14 days to accept that rent statement or not and provide his version.

1. If the tenants contests the rent statement and has no proof of how mch he actually gave by cash, and I have proof via my paying in book, how does the judge decide how much has been paid?

2. What happens after the full 21 days have elapsed? Do I automatically get another hearing date sent? by post? (I used PCOL)?

Snorkerz
09-02-2010, 20:53 PM
I have done this now (with photocopies of the bank paying in book as evidence). I need to send one copy to the court and one to the tenant within 7 days. Then tenant has 14 days to accept that rent statement or not and provide his version.

1. If the tenants contests the rent statement and has no proof of how mch he actually gave by cash, and I have proof via my paying in book, how does the judge decide how much has been paid?

2. What happens after the full 21 days have elapsed? Do I automatically get another hearing date sent? by post? (I used PCOL)?Judge will look for proof - the standard of proof is, I believe, "balance of probabilities".

The hearing date will be sent in due course.