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jinty1967
05-02-2010, 21:17 PM
I have a tenant who moved in mid Dec 2009, paid a months rent in advance and 1/2 months rent as deposit. This is held with DPS.
When the rent became due mid Jan, there was nothing paid and no correspondence to say why. I emailed them (I am in Australia travelling) and they assured me it would be in the bank within the week, again nothing.

The week after she finally emails me to say her partner (the tenant) has been signed off for 12 months (on sick) as he has mental problems. And that he would receive 323 every 4 weeks which he would pay as rent. This covers about 3/4 of the rent, so I suggested he go to CAB and see about HB.

This they did but she says he can only get the 323 pounds still.

Since then I have received 200 pounds, 3 weeks late, not by standing order as I requested but left for my parents to collect from hers (they dont live together).
She signed the agreement as his guarantor and states that she, too, has lost her job, so cannot pay towards his rent.
Today further correspondence from her states that he will pay something towards next months rent but cannot pay in full.

What happens now? The rent pays my mortgage (just) so I do need a tenant that pays in full.

Many thanks I look forward to your input.

Snorkerz
05-02-2010, 21:28 PM
Commence section 8 process as soon as 2 months worth of rent is overdue. This will give you a possesion order and an order for the missing rent. If T doesn't pay, then it would be straight forward to get an order for G to pay.

As she was originally accepted as a guarantor, one presumes she has a property that you could get a charge against at least.

jinty1967
05-02-2010, 21:40 PM
The guarantor rents a property herself so I can't put a charge on her.
Can I use section 8 if the rent is part paid at the end of the 8 weeks, or does it have to be totally unpaid?

Snorkerz
06-02-2010, 11:50 AM
That is a shame about the guarantor - for next time you should always get a guarantor who has both an income and a property - that way if you have to claim on the guarantee you have a chance of getting your money. As it is, your guarantor offers you little protection over the tenant alone.

However....

In answer to your question. You can issue a section 8 notice under grounds 10 & 11 now. This is just a warning shot though because you wouldn't normally go to court for grounds 10 & 11 only (unlikely to get possession).

Once an amount of rent = to 2 months is unpaid, then you can re-issue your s8, but this time for grounds 8, 10 & 11. 2 weeks later, you apply online for a possession order (google pcol). Hearing will be 4-6 weeks later, and providing T still owes 2 months worth you will definately get a possession order. Judge will give T 2 weeks (usually) to go. If T has reduced debt to less than 2 months, you may still get possession on grounds 10 or 11.

As an extra precaution, issue a s21(1)b to expire at the end of the fixed term. You probably won't need to use it, but it's a just-in-case.

westminster
06-02-2010, 15:29 PM
(I am in Australia travelling)
You'll need a solicitor to pursue the eviction. You can't DIY from Australia.

Frankly, I don't believe that both the tenant and his guarantor both coincidentally lost their jobs a month after the tenancy began. This sounds planned. Did you get proper references/credit checks carried out?

jinty1967
07-02-2010, 08:00 AM
My stepmother handled all the interviewing stages etc.. and as he didnt have a reference,the girlfriend signed as his guarantor.
Next time I'll come home and do it all myself, what a nightmare..
I have no proof that he's been signed off, or that she is now unemployed and my stepmother states she wants nothing to do with it..hence I am trying to do it from here (Oz).
Does anyone know if the solicitors who advertise services online at eviction websites are worth pursuing, apparently they will serve notices etc for fixed fees, at whichever stage you need.
Thanks everyone for your help so far..

Snorkerz
07-02-2010, 09:12 AM
Many people use and recommend the companies that advertise on sites like this, although I must admit I never have.

Just one thought, to dot the 'i's and cross the 't's before you begin action. Have you given the tenants an address in England or Wales where they can serve legal documents on you? If you haven't, then they are legally entitled not to pay rent until you do.

ALSO, and this isn't an issue for the s8, but is a legal requirement, if they paid a deposit, was it protected in a government approved scheme?

jinty1967
08-02-2010, 07:38 AM
Yes the deposit is protected by the Deposit Protection Service.
They have an address in UK (my stepmothers) to issue any documents etc, and a contact number for her and myself, and my email address.
The 2nd months rent is due on Saturday do I have to wait another 4 weeks after this to issue notice.
They state that as soon as he finds another place ''he will leave'' but how will they pay for it and with what references?
A big set up I think. And still no proof that he has been signed off, or that she has lost her job, can I ask for any proof does anyone know?
Seems very strange that he can't get housing benefit..

jeffrey
08-02-2010, 09:43 AM
They have an address in UK (my stepmothers) to issue any documents etc.
No, that's insufficient if it's in Scotland or Northern Ireland. Have you provided T with a address (for service on you) in England & Wales?
See s.48 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987.

Snorkerz
08-02-2010, 11:43 AM
Yes the deposit is protected by the Deposit Protection Service.
They have an address in UK (my stepmothers) to issue any documents etc, and a contact number for her and myself, and my email address.
The 2nd months rent is due on Saturday do I have to wait another 4 weeks after this to issue notice.
They state that as soon as he finds another place ''he will leave'' but how will they pay for it and with what references?
A big set up I think. And still no proof that he has been signed off, or that she has lost her job, can I ask for any proof does anyone know?
Seems very strange that he can't get housing benefit..Every time a rent day passes, more becomes "unpaid". As soon as 2 months worth is unpaid, you can start the s8 process. Note Jeffreys comments about where in the UK your stepmothers address is. Also, was this address on the tenancy agreement, or if not, how did you notify them?

jinty1967
08-02-2010, 20:54 PM
Yes the address is in England, and yes, it was quoted on the tenancy agreement. Thanks for all your advice so far, I'm thinking of using one of the ''eviction fixed fee sites'' as I'm still out of the country or would I be better returning to the Uk to sort it all out?

quarterday
08-02-2010, 22:30 PM
You probably have a long wait for vacant possession, the tenants are unlikely to go until formally booted out by court bailiffs, which might be three months off. My advice; sell up and put it all behind you.

A wise old landlord's saying : never invest in something that you cant drive past.

westminster
08-02-2010, 23:25 PM
ss.
The 2nd months rent is due on Saturday do I have to wait another 4 weeks after this to issue notice.
No, the day after the 2nd month is due and isn't paid, that's two months due and unpaid.


They state that as soon as he finds another place ''he will leave'' but how will they pay for it and with what references?
Not your problem, and don't listen to any more hard luck stories. Just pursue the eviction, get them out, then get a reputable agent who is a member of a professional body such as ARLA to find new tenants. When you get back from your travels you can investigate pursuing the tenant for the debt.

jinty1967
10-02-2010, 23:56 PM
I didnt buy the house as an investment, although I know it is, it was my home for 8 years, I let it out to pay the mortgage while I travel (that was the idea anyway!)
After all this, I'm not so sure if I wouldn't be better leaving it empty!
As the tenant has paid nearly half of the first months rent, does that mean I have to serve notice half way from the next months due date (Saturday) to ensure two full months rent is due..ie serve notice at the end of Feb?
And how do I pursue what he owes if he has no money?

Snorkerz
11-02-2010, 09:23 AM
I didnt buy the house as an investment, although I know it is, it was my home for 8 years, I let it out to pay the mortgage while I travel (that was the idea anyway!)
After all this, I'm not so sure if I wouldn't be better leaving it empty!
As the tenant has paid nearly half of the first months rent, does that mean I have to serve notice half way from the next months due date (Saturday) to ensure two full months rent is due..ie serve notice at the end of Feb?
And how do I pursue what he owes if he has no money?You can not issue your section 8 until the unpaid rent is equal to 2 months worth - but rent does not become unpaid until the day after rent day. It would appear mid-December rent was paid, and half of mid-jan rent was paid so you will not be able to s8 until mid March (ie Feb & March totally unpaid).

The court will give an order for the missing rent - only you can decide if you have any chance of getting the money and if it is worth trying to enforce.

jeffrey
11-02-2010, 10:02 AM
You can not issue your section 8 until the unpaid rent is equal to 2 months worth - but rent does not become unpaid until the day after rent day. It would appear mid-December rent was paid, and half of mid-jan rent was paid so you will not be able to s8 until mid March (ie Feb & March totally unpaid).
Not quite so. L can already serve a s.8 Notice on (discretionary) grounds 10/11. It's only (mandatory) ground 8 that's not yet usable.

Snorkerz
11-02-2010, 10:11 AM
Not quite so. L can already serve a s.8 Notice on (discretionary) grounds 10/11. It's only (mandatory) ground 8 that's not yet usable.Very true - and indeed a s8 on grounds 10/11 might be a good scare tactic but they are up to the judge. Maybe OP could also include ground 17 which might encourage the judge to grant possession if viewed in conjunction with 10 & 11.

The tenant is the person, or one of the persons, to whom the tenancy was granted and the landlord was induced to grant the tenancy by a false statement made knowingly or recklessly by—
(a)the tenant, or
(b)a person acting at the tenant’s instigation.

jinty1967
13-02-2010, 02:29 AM
Sorry for asking but what is "OP"? And what do you mean by grounds 17 and that statement?

westminster
14-02-2010, 00:31 AM
Sorry for asking but what is "OP"? And what do you mean by grounds 17 and that statement?
OP = 'original poster' = you
Ground 17, see http://www.letlink.co.uk/letting-factsheets/factsheets/factsheet-8-claims-for-possession-the-section-8-notice.html

jinty1967
16-02-2010, 01:01 AM
Thanks for that advice, am now counting the days until I can serve notice..

jinty1967
21-02-2010, 04:35 AM
The rent has not been paid on both Jan and Feb due dates, however a payment of 200 (less than half of one months rent) was received midway between them, do I have to wait until the next due date mid March to issue S8, gr 8, 10 and 11? (and poss gr 17)
Thanks for your patience with this..

jeffrey
21-02-2010, 20:18 PM
The rent has not been paid on both Jan and Feb due dates, however a payment of 200 (less than half of one months rent) was received midway between them, do I have to wait until the next due date mid March to issue S8, gr 8, 10 and 11? (and poss gr 17)
Thanks for your patience with this..
Ignore which part-months might have been paid.
As at now, does T owe an amount equal to (or exceeding) two months' rent?
If yes, g8 applies. If no, it doesn't.

jinty1967
09-03-2010, 00:04 AM
I've just found out that the tenants girlfriend (and him) did a runner from their last place in the last few weeks, when the bailiffs arrived. She has signed as his (my tenants) guarantor in a different name to what she uses as email, she has given my house address to police for a traffic offence, and the other surname too.
Their stuff is still in the house, but no sign of them (neighbours report) I am about to serve notice on them but what if theyre not there to receive?

westminster
09-03-2010, 00:20 AM
Their stuff is still in the house, but no sign of them (neighbours report) I am about to serve notice on them but what if theyre not there to receive?
Doesn't matter. The notice is deemed to be served if served by post to the rental property. Don't, however, use a signed-for postal service. Keep copy notice, post first class and get a free certificate of posting from the PO (which requires no signature on receipt), and keep copy notice+certificate as proof of service.

Do not be tempted to change the locks. See
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/legal/abandonment.htm

jinty1967
09-03-2010, 03:55 AM
Can I let the previous landlord know where they are so that his bailiffs can sort out what they owe there?
(I'm thinking this may encourage them to leave mine just as fast if the bailiffs 'find' them?)
I realise I cant enter the property/change locks etc.. so I just go ahead with the section 8, then proceed to court for possession?