No rent charged for 20 years

[Linclass]

Hi All

I am new to this forum, and leasehold so forgive me if I get any terminology wrong, there are a couple of questions I need to ask.

I am making these enquiries on behalf of my brother as I am looking after his empty flat.

The first is my brother purchased a flat in August 1990. It had a 125 year lease costing £10 a year, this was to cover access rights. The flat is the upstairs property converted from an end terraced house.

He paid the initial £10 rent on completion of the purchase, paperwork was to follow and details on how to pay in future. This he never recieved, then 3 years ago the leaseholders went bankrupt, he was offered the opportunity to buy the lease but due to personal and financial circumstances was not in a position to do so.

Now the landlord of the downstairs flat [which happens to be rented by our niece] has made verbal contact with my brothers children who live a few doors down on the same street. It appears he has purchased the leasehold last year and had been making verbal demands that the rent be paid. However he has not notified us that he has taken over the lease or issued any paperwork to prove ownership or bills.

I have spoken to him on the phone, and first off he implied the rent he paid for his flat was £110, I commented it was steep as the rent on flat was £10. I asked for the paperwork to be sent, two weeks later nothing has been sent. Again I rang after first saying he was waiting on his solicitor, he then said he wouldn't bother collecting rent as it was only £10, unless he carried out external repairs then he would want money for these.

Yet he knows builders paid for by my brother are coming shortly to repair the roof, gable end and guttering of the building. Some of these problems have been inherent since conversion others are due to wear and tear.

As I understand the landlord is breaking the rules by not informing us of his ownership of the lease [liable to a £2500 fine?] Can he decide to charge rent as and when he feels like it and increase rent to pay for external repairs [especially when we are paying for them]?

I don't want to antagonise him too much as there was a burst water pipe over Christmas. It appears the pipe burst on the water main supply, which goes up through his flat to my brothers before the stop tap in the flat [the upstairs flat system is switched off and completely drained] He will only let us reconnect if we lag pipe in his flat [we are moving stop tap back as far as possible] or we will have to take mains supply externally [don't think this would be possible due to freezing problems]

Can anyone advise please

[andydd]

Hi All

I am new to this forum, and leasehold so forgive me if I get any terminology wrong, there are a couple of questions I need to ask.

I am making these enquiries on behalf of my brother as I am looking after his empty flat.

The first is my brother purchased a flat in August 1990. It had a 125 year lease costing £10 a year, this was to cover access rights. The flat is the upstairs property converted from an end terraced house.

He paid the initial £10 rent on completion of the purchase, paperwork was to follow and details on how to pay in future. This he never recieved, then 3 years ago the leaseholders went bankrupt, he was offered the opportunity to buy the lease but due to personal and financial circumstances was not in a position to do so.

Now the landlord of the downstairs flat [which happens to be rented by our niece] has made verbal contact with my brothers children who live a few doors down on the same street. It appears he has purchased the leasehold last year and had been making verbal demands that the rent be paid. However he has not notified us that he has taken over the lease or issued any paperwork to prove ownership or bills.

I have spoken to him on the phone, and first off he implied the rent he paid for his flat was £110, I commented it was steep as the rent on flat was £10. I asked for the paperwork to be sent, two weeks later nothing has been sent. Again I rang after first saying he was waiting on his solicitor, he then said he wouldn't bother collecting rent as it was only £10, unless he carried out external repairs then he would want money for these.

Yet he knows builders paid for by my brother are coming shortly to repair the roof, gable end and guttering of the building. Some of these problems have been inherent since conversion others are due to wear and tear.

As I understand the landlord is breaking the rules by not informing us of his ownership of the lease [liable to a £2500 fine?] Can he decide to charge rent as and when he feels like it and increase rent to pay for external repairs [especially when we are paying for them]?

I don't want to antagonise him too much as there was a burst water pipe over Christmas. It appears the pipe burst on the water main supply, which goes up through his flat to my brothers before the stop tap in the flat [the upstairs flat system is switched off and completely drained] He will only let us reconnect if we lag pipe in his flat [we are moving stop tap back as far as possible] or we will have to take mains supply externally [don't think this would be possible due to freezing problems]

Can anyone advise please

Have you/your brother got a copy of the lease ?, ground rent will be stated in there and cannot unilaterely be changed.

Ground Rent also isnt payable for repairs, there should be some sort of service charge stipulated in the lease to covers repairs and maintanence. Ground Rent is also only payable if properally demanded in the prescribed form.

Andy

[jeffrey]

For any contract debt (inc. rent), even if reserved in a Deed (e.g. lease), the right to recover arrears is statute-barred at six years.
Although the claimant (plaintiff) can sue for the total, the defendant can plead in defence the Limitation Act 1980.

[Linclass]

He has never been provided with a copy of the lease and service charges have never been raised/billed on the property. The only information we have about the value of the lease is from the title deeds obtained from the land registry and the money my brother paid at the time of purchase.

The new leaseholder has not provided any written documentation to say he is the new leasehold only had verbal comments. I have asked him to provide documentation after first saying he would he know seems reluctant to do so and now he says he is not bothered about collecting rent as its only for £10 per annum.

My brother will be returning to his flat soon and he is paying for all the roof, gutter and repairs to gable end to cure damp problems in his flat.

Can we compulsory purchase the lease on his flat and if so how will the value be determined? What would this mean to service charges, although nothing has ever been billed charged in 20 years.

[jeffrey]

He has never been provided with a copy of the lease and service charges have never been raised/billed on the property. The only information we have about the value of the lease is from the title deeds obtained from the land registry and the money my brother paid at the time of purchase.

The new leaseholder** has not provided any written documentation to say he is the new leaseholder** only had verbal comments. I have asked him to provide documentation after first saying he would he know seems reluctant to do so and now he says he is not bothered about collecting rent as its only for £10 per annum.
**- you mean 'freeholder', I think. When he acquired the freehold reversion, he should have served on your brother as leaseholder:
a. the previous freeholder's Letter of Authority;
b. Notice under s.3 of LTA 1985 (without which he commits a criminal offence!); and
c. Notice under s.48 of LTA 1987 (without which no rent is payable at all!)

[jeffrey]

Can we compulsory purchase the lease on his flat and if so how will the value be determined? What would this mean to service charges, although nothing has ever been billed charged in 20 years.
Your brother already owns the lease. How many flats are in the building?

[Linclass]

My brothers flat is the top story of a converted terraced house. The freeholder owns the downstairs property which he rents out.

[jeffrey]

If there are only two flats, your brother has no statutory powers to enfranchise. See http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=19632&highlight=collective

[Linclass]

Thank you for taking the time to help!

Am I understanding this correctly my brother doesn't have the right to force the sale of the freehold so he can not purchase it from the downstairs flat owner [who has bought both leases] on the flats.

So where does my brother stand in regards to the fact the new freeholder may not collect the £10 rent per annum [has served no notices of ownership etc]. But freeholder may decide to collect rent in future if/when he levies any service charges to pay for external work on the flats he undertaken [they do not share a common entrance or parts]. Yet my brother is already paying to have the roof, gutters and gable end repaired on the property, can he ask the freeholder to pay towards these costs?

[jeffrey]

he can not purchase it from the downstairs flat owner [who has bought both leases] on the flats.
Wrong. The man downstairs does not own both leases; your brother already owns one!

[Linclass]

Sorry I got the terminally wrong [I am new to leasehold/freehold scenario] The owner of the downstairs flat has purchased the freehold on both flats. These were held previously by someone else who went bankrupt.

So where does my brother stand in regards to the fact the new freeholder may not collect the £10 rent per annum [has served no notices of ownership etc]. But freeholder may decide to collect rent in future if/when he levies any service charges to pay for external work on the flats he undertaken [they do not share a common entrance or parts]. Yet my brother is already paying to have the roof, gutters and gable end repaired on the property, can he ask the freeholder to pay towards these costs?

So have I understod this correctly my brother doesn't have the right to force the sale of the freehold so he can not purchase it from the downstairs flat owner either.

[Poppy]

Why is your brother initiating repairs? That’s the freeholder's responsibility. Or does the lease say something different? (I'd be surprised.) It is inadvisable to voluntarily do any external works unless you have an explicit agreement with the freeeholder.

If the freeholder does not collect ground rent as scheduled in the lease, your brother should expect that they may get their act together and decide to collect six years later (which is the limit).

Your brother cannot force a sale of the freehold, because he cannot not make up more than half of the lessees in the building to initiate collective enfranchisement. Take a look a Leasehold Advisory Service (http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/documents/document.asp?item=11) website.

[Linclass]

He is doing repairs because he is moving back to his flat shortly and its uninhabitable due to damp problems, due leaky roof, gutters not installed correctly and the gable end needs repointing and sealing, just doing his half of this.

My brother has never recieved any documentation re rent [apart from initial £10 paid when he purchased the flat] or no details of any service charges/ freeholders resposnsibilites in 20 years of ownership. The owner of other flat has taken over freehold of both leases and has made verbal comments re collecting rent and possbly service charges [if HE repairs anything] BUT he has not issued any documentation.

[jeffrey]

So let your brother threaten Mr Downstairs with proceedings unless he (the latter) carries-out L's obligations to maintain as per lease.

[ram]

The owner of the downstairs flat has purchased the freehold on both flats.
So where does my brother stand in regards to the fact the new freeholder may not collect the £10 rent per annum Yet my brother is already paying to have the roof, gutters and gable end repaired on the property, can he ask the freeholder to pay towards these costs?.

1) £ 10 per year ground rent. don't worry about that, you either have to pay it, or as stated, may not be asked for. It's only £ 10 per year !

2) ROOF. "can he ask the freeholder to pay towards these costs?
The roof protects all residents Upper and lower floors, and a leaking roof / gutters etc should be paid by ALL owners, as it stops the rain going into the ground floor flat / premises. You must not pay for it all, but I do see that if you don't do it, it may not get done if the other owner wont pay,

then you sue them !

You could say that you should not have to pay any more than 50%, and if the others wont pay, then say to them that you wont get it repaired at your full cost, so expect water to be running down the walls in ground floor flat very soon. If the downstairs flat dont want a waterproof roof, tell them you will have it removed, seeing as they dont want a roof --- they may soon change their mind.

I have come across many people in your position, and the only thing that works, is to state things similar to above, as they just wont listen, and you have to pay for their dry habitation.

[Linclass]

Thanks RAM for this advise its much appreciated. The fh isn't au fait with law, and he is constantly changing his mind so don't know where we stand with him. I am trying to get brothers flat habitable for his return.

FH has capped brothers water supply off in his flat due to leak in mains supply [brothers flat stop tap off and pipes drained] First he wants us to lag pipes in his flt [fair enough] then says we got to take supply externally. So now need to need rights on water supply.

He mentioned sharing costs re external works [in services charges] I asked if he was paying half towards repairs of roof, guttering and gable so he back tracked on this reckoning that it was upstairs flats responsibility then![We know what sort of landord he is as niece rents downstairs flat and its in poor state too] His ears pricked re length of non payment of rent/service charges [though don't know what latter should be as they have ever been charged] till I pointed out he can only collect 6 years worth of back pay!!

I also pointed out his in breach of l & t act re lack of notification of ownership of FH and liable to fine.

Now he rung up saying upstairs flat illegal cos it only has one exit/entrance and no rights of access over front of property, I think he is trying to cash in and raise as much money as possible. He has offered to sell the lease I know solvency company offered it for £1000, he says he paid £3000 for it but would sell for £2500. My brother not in position to buy lease BUT what would be consequences if I did [I could put it in his name]? Would I be responsible for upkeep of external property [if I retained ownership] raised through services charges on top flat only as he [downstairs owner] has FH for downstairs flat too which he is selling. Or should we wait for new owner and negotiate some sort of account to deposit funds in to save for joint payment of external repairs.

All I want is to get flat fully fit for habitation for brother to come home to.

[ram]

Thanks RAM for this advise its much appreciated. The fh isn't au fait with law, and he is constantly changing his mind so don't know where we stand with him.

So that others more legally minded than me may be able to clarify matters, and, correct me as required.

Assumption in your case. ( irrespective of how the freehold was transferred on various occasions )

1) Someone ( we call him, for instance, - original owner ) buys a teraced house 25 years ago. Decides to make some money by selling the upstairs as a flat. Issues no written lease nor sets up a maintenance package, ( say £ 50 per month ) nor sets up freehold where each flat owns half the freehold.

2) The original owner owns the ground floor flat and the freehold of the property ( all the property ) The freeholder, in the absence of a lease and not stating a maintenance package, Freeholder owns the bricks of the house, the roof and the gutters, and all common parts, as it is comon practice that you own the flat, the windows, internal covering ( Plaster ) fxtures and fittings, floor boards, ( possibly beams holding up your floor ), but you dont own the roof, supporting walls, front garden etc, as you don't own any freehold... in this instance

The two owners of the property are responsible for maintaining the property, and that means the man you are having trouble with is responsible for half all common repairs.

You have a new owner of the freehold, therefore as there is no lease for you, and even if there was, the two owners, who ever that end up being the new owner of downstairs ( we know one will be your brother ) split the costs of normal maintenance.

the word here is "common parts" e.g. Roof, gutters, drains etc.

Hope 1) and 2) describes the situation ? without the legal jargon.

try saying, I have made legal enquiries, and in the absence of a lease, you, the freeholder, are responsible for all maintenance. then when he blows his top, say, well, lets be fair and split this and all future maitenence 50/50 as the law requires ( You said he does not know the law, and you are not too coversant, but stand your ground, make him think you know what you are talkng about with help from others on here, be firm, cos its evident he does not have a clue....... .)

2:20 am, so must get to bed.

R.a.M.

[Linclass]

Hi RAM

Can't PM you as post count below 15

I have spoken to the leaseholders advisory service, who told me how to get a copy of the lease [Land Registry] I have now emailed the LAS a copy and they will look at it for us, so awaiting their advise.

I have worked out that the lease stipulates that common parts should be paid for via service charges raised on a 50/50 basis between the two leaseholders.

Basically the freeholder and owner of bottom flat which he rents out [ironically to our niece though he doesn't know this] he may raise a service charges to pay for common repairs in the future. However as far as he is concerned the roof, gutters and gable end are not part of his responsibility.

As we have to notify fh of any external work, I thought I would write to him, [he changes his mind in verbal conversations anyway] saying something like we are carrying out external repairs to the building at our expense due to the years of neglect by the freeholders. The lack of repairs have caused internal damage to the upstairs flat, due to water ingress due to faults with the roof, gutters and gable end. We also have problem that after a burst pipe [brothers stop tap off and system drained] pipe burst in the mains pipe to stop tap, freeholder has capped off my brothers water pipe off in the lower flat [the lease seems to indicate that the top flat has right to run pipe this way but need to confirm this with LAS] that we will also be requiring access under terms of the lease to repair said pipe.

If he refuses access or gets awkward we wondered if we can play the trump card of threatening to go to the local authorities to report him over his lack of notification for taking over fh. I have already told him he is liable to a large fine for this.

Hopefully hear from the LAS this week so I know that what I am saying is correct.