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marmite
29-12-2009, 15:03 PM
Hello there.

Long story, but in brief:-

I have aquired some land through the adverse posession procedure with land registry. Completely open so nothing dodgy. Every trace to find owners failed and land is landlocked.

I have now obtained planning permission to build new property on this land though I need to cross a "ransom strip"

The ower of the ransom strip is likely to want to buy the land with PP and develop it himself.

All well and good.

But as I only have posessory freehold to the land, I would assume it needs to have some insurance on it just in case the original owners turn up no matter how unlikely this will be.

I have meetings with everyone concerned in a few weeks so just trying to clarify some things before hand.


Who normally pays the insurance premium? Seller (me) or buyer/developer?

If properties on the land are worth, say £450-500k what sort of premium is to be expected (apprecaite this would be rough!)

Assume premium is one off?

Finally, I assume the entire "profit" from the land (sales price - all fees etc) is liable to CGT?

Anything else I need to consider?



Thanks - and thanks for previous advice that has helped me get this far.

jeffrey
29-12-2009, 15:14 PM
1. Indemnity Insurance costs normally fall on V (= you).
2. Your solicitor can tell you what cover is available. Most firms have ready-to-issue policy pads with all the details.
3. Example: On-Cover premium for cover of over £200 000 up to £250 000 would cost £190. Only a single premium is payable.
4. However, for larger amounts, it would need to provide a one-off quotation.
5. Also, its standard terms are for existing and continuing residential use. As development is involved in your case, again a one-off quotation is needed
6. Finally, an up-to-date Statutory Declaration is usually essential so that the Insurer has full current details.

marmite
29-12-2009, 15:21 PM
Thank you Jeffery.
I was expecting to hear a preimum of £'000s!
I can cope with £'00s without getting too upset.

Stat-dec was from May last year (awarded land June) so fairly up to date so no problem there.

Need to get quote via solicitor I guess which I can't do really until I speak to the ransom strip owner (actually a company) and see how things lie.

OK - its stored in the sales negotation bag!

Appreciated.

jeffrey
29-12-2009, 15:51 PM
I recommend discussing with solicitor before (instead of) owner of ransom strip; tipping-off the latter might even preclude you from insuring.

marmite
29-12-2009, 16:01 PM
Hi
The owner of ransom strip has been involved from outset as they own a large amount of property the other side and NEED to give access.
So they either need to sell me the ransom strip or buy the development land (or do neither)

We have been in discussions since day 1 and they know the land title is how it is and are interested in it. (They were contacted from teh outset to establish if they were the original owners and to establish boundaries etc)

So probably a little late for that!

Discussion is just to "agree" a rough value where everyone is happy, then proceed through the formal channels

jeffrey
29-12-2009, 16:16 PM
OK- so less of a problem (but ensure that all discussions are explicitly subject-to-contract; and tell solicitor about them too).

marmite
29-12-2009, 16:27 PM
OK - will do - thanks for advice.

jeffrey
29-12-2009, 17:12 PM
I have aquired some land through the adverse posession procedure with land registry.
For how long have you been the registered proprietor (and with what class of title)? After either ten or twelve years of ownership with only possessory title, and unless anything adverse happens in the interim, you can apply for it to be upgraded to absolute title.

marmite
29-12-2009, 17:21 PM
Title is posessory freehold
Granted 6 months ago - so can't convert and have no plans to stay around another 12 years!

Richard Webster
29-12-2009, 18:35 PM
Another point is that given the title is possessory it is possible that there could be some unknown restrictive covenants which could prevent building so you may need to get indemnity insurance for that also. The cost of this before development is a lot higher than after the building in question has been up for a year.

The insurers generally want to see if anyone emerges from the woodwork claiming the benefit of covenants when planning permission is applied for and then they will decide whether or not they will insure but I think the lowest premiums for pre-development polices of this kind is something of the order of £700 and for your proposed value it could be significantly higher.

marmite
29-12-2009, 22:32 PM
It is unlikely there is anything restrictive on the land, but as you say its impossible to find out.

Are you able to clarify if these policies are one-off payments, and if an excess needs to be stored safely somewhere?

jeffrey
30-12-2009, 10:54 AM
It is unlikely there is anything restrictive on the land, but as you say its impossible to find out.
No, it's not necessarily impossible! If your land does have a burden, another area nearby must have the associated benefit. You could always obtain corresponding copies of each adjacent area's registered title, to see what benefits (easements/covenants) appear to exist in their favour.


Are you able to clarify if these policies are one-off payments, and if an excess needs to be stored safely somewhere?
All indemnity insurance premia are one-off, not annual [see item 3 in post #2]; no excess is payable unless the policy says so.

stonecold
11-03-2011, 13:10 PM
hi,

i read with interest that you've managed to obtain a property via adverse possession? if so, well done!

i'm at the beginning of that long process and wondered if you would mind having a chat with me about it? I'm just about to fence off a plot of abandoned land that i've been aware of for 15 years+ and want to ensure that i can prove demonstrable possession of the plot. how did you manage to do this?

i'd really appreciate any help that you can give.

thanks

scott

jeffrey
11-03-2011, 13:36 PM
i'm at the beginning of that long process and wondered if you would mind having a chat with me about it? I'm just about to fence off a plot of abandoned land that i've been aware of for 15 years+ and want to ensure that i can prove demonstrable possession of the plot. how did you manage to do this?
Start by looking at HMLR's Practice Guides 4 and 5: http://www1.landregistry.gov.uk/publications/?pubtype=309

marmite
11-03-2011, 17:48 PM
Hi Scott.
jeffrey on here has very good advice and has provided good information on numerous of my threads. He is an expert, not me.
But basically, to "claim" I proved usage for 12 years as, in truth, I used teh land for 12 years. I tried to claim on "day 1" even though I knew it would be rejected just to ensure I had letter from land registry saying so.
Then after 12 years, provided a full statatory declaration with full details of everything and all the research I did trying to find owner (all dated around 12 years prior obviously), along with the forms.

If you've only be "aware" of the land and not "tended" it or used it, then you can't claim. I was using the entire land "as my garden" for the full duration, had it fenced off and removed the fence between so used it as per own garden. Photos help and when the LR surveyor came round they took age of fence into account etc. If you intend fencing off now, maybe take photos, keep fencing receipts, and then just "tend" it and use it.

Maybe try my trick of trying to claim now even though it will get rejected. (They refund cheque!).