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CBrad
07-11-2009, 17:02 PM
Hi,

I have issues with tenants and a deposit query:

Tenants have removed matching hardwearing neutral carpets, fit throughout house (1 yr old at tenancy start), with CHEAP RED carpets without my prior knowledge. - these are so cheap that they are already worn on the stairs and WILL have to be replaced by me.

Tenants have lit fire in garden close to sofit board, which has melted, and ashes have burnt paint on neighbours car.

Tenants have been abusive to (elderly) neighbours, and generated up to 5 complaints in three years.

Tenants have let a water leak in bathroom go unreported for 6 MONTHS -full damage unknown, visually Plasterboard, laminate, ceiling and bath pannel require attention, although floorboards may be damaged too.

Tenants have removed three furn trees (6-7ft) from front garden without asking.

Tenants have left rubish in front and rear garden for long periods causing other residents in the street to arrange removal themselves.


Based on this i have formally warned in writing that the contract is in jepordy and the deposit of £600, is significantly below the cost of restoration of the property.

i have asked the tenant to come back to me in writing with their sugestions as to how to resolove.

(this was not answered)

I have now served a Section 21 (no reason given -but obvious) .

(at this point, tenants new b/f called to request why i will be retaining deposit, and advise me that the tenant could withold rent and remain in property to cause trouble if i dont agree a return)

At this stage i have only advised of issues, and two weeks later served section21.

i have not commited to deposit, as beleive this should be a two way street. (deposit is held by me (lawfully) as three yr tenancy)

I have suggested putting onto a scheme for mediation - this was declined.
(i didn't make a full itinery on comencement)

Any advice welcome!

justaboutsane
07-11-2009, 19:04 PM
You are not going to like this... but I would be giving it back! You cannot prove the state of the property at the start of the tenancy therefore the tenants could have a good case against you iin court.

Lawcruncher
07-11-2009, 19:27 PM
An inventory or schedule of condition is not absolutely necessary to prove what was in the property or its condition at the start of the tenancy. They certainly help, but other evidence can be submitted.

tom999
07-11-2009, 20:25 PM
We may be able to help if you could answer the following:

When did tenancy start?
Is tenancy an AST in England or Wales?
Is annual rent less than £25k?
What itinery did you make (written, photos, video) when tenant(s) checked-in?

Paul_f
08-11-2009, 21:32 PM
I don't think OP is going to come back on this!

Snorkerz
08-11-2009, 22:20 PM
The original poster was the Tenant in his post a few days ago!
You are not going to like this... but I would be giving it back! You cannot prove the state of the property at the start of the tenancy therefore the tenants could have a good case against you iin courtMaybe we gave him exactly the info he wanted ;)

mind the gap
08-11-2009, 22:24 PM
The original poster was the Tenant in his post a few days ago! Maybe we gave him exactly the info he wanted ;)
Or maybe he found the love of his life and ran off to Honolulu. Or got swine flu and couldn't face LLZ.

Ericthelobster
08-11-2009, 22:31 PM
The original poster was the Tenant in his post a few days ago!Although in the past we have had members posting the same story from different angles in the hope of receiving different answers, this one does sounds like a different scenario though... no reason why tenants can't themselves be landlords (eg I have some tenants who now let out what was their own home in another part of the country).

CBrad
09-11-2009, 18:57 PM
An inventory or schedule of condition is not absolutely necessary to prove what was in the property or its condition at the start of the tenancy. They certainly help, but other evidence can be submitted.

Photo's of the property were taken by me and by an agent. (agent not used, but photo's remain on file)

CBrad
09-11-2009, 19:00 PM
We may be able to help if you could answer the following:

When did tenancy start?
Is tenancy an AST in England or Wales?
Is annual rent less than £25k?
What itinery did you make (written, photos, video) when tenant(s) checked-in?


AST started March 2007.
England
Yes £595 pcm
Photo's only (taken by me and by agent -agent was for sale that didn't continue)
No specifics mentioned,

CBrad
09-11-2009, 19:05 PM
The original poster was the Tenant in his post a few days ago! Maybe we gave him exactly the info he wanted ;)

Re the mixed message on other posts: my previous house, from previous relationship is rented out. (house #1)

I now live in rented house myself. (house #2)

(soon to leave current rented house (house #2), as purchasing New house (House #3) with new partner) retaining house #1 as rental property.

I hope that is clear. (you can understand why this was not explained)

Everyones advice is greatly appreciated.

westminster
09-11-2009, 23:24 PM
AST started March 2007.
England
Yes £595 pcm
Photo's only (taken by me and by agent -agent was for sale that didn't continue)
No specifics mentioned,
If the photos were taken close to the time the property was let, and the agent or photographer is willing to attest to the date of the photos, then this might be sufficient evidence upon which to succeed in a claim against T for damage (or for some of it anyway) - given that some of it is pretty obvious things such as a different carpet and no trees where there were trees before. It would help if you had other evidence such as witnesses to the tree removal, or communications from the T.

If you think you can gather some additional evidence or witnesses, and the T is employed, (and therefore has the means to pay if you succeeded in the claim), then it's probably worth a go, as claims in the small claims track are judged on a "balance of probabilities".

CBrad
12-11-2009, 12:28 PM
I have now received a letter stating that the rent due between now and the end of term is £XXX, therefore £XXX less deposit of £XXX is being paid in full and final settlement. - obviously using deposit as rent so i cant deduct it at end of tenency.

This was accompanied by a letter admitting to dammage and removal of carpets etc..

I am aware that she shouldn't do this, however what can i do to stop her is the question? (note: cannot send heavies in to a woman!)

I have pondered advising her that as she is claiming DSS for rent, this MUST be paid over or it will be Benefit Fraud...? (..well it would be wouldn't it?)

As for taking her / them to court, as they are DSS, what chance have i got of ever getting anythiing more than a big fight and loss of my own time and money..?

It's looking like i gotta bite the bullet and just accept it. i hvae a waiting tenant, and any dispute could end in further damage to the property or delay resulting in loss of the new tenant.

ANY ADVICE PLEASE ANYONE ? (it's almost as if renting is guaranteed hassle!)

tom999
12-11-2009, 12:49 PM
I have pondered advising her that as she is claiming DSS for rent, this MUST be paid over or it will be Benefit Fraud...? (..well it would be wouldn't it?)No, unfortunately. HB/LHA is claimant's money, not LL's. However, if more than 8 weeks rent arrears, you can apply to council to have LHA paid direct to you.


As for taking her / them to court, as they are DSS, what chance have i got of ever getting anythiing more than a big fight and loss of my own time and money..?Virtually nil, but may be worth using MCOL (for property damage) to make a mark on her credit file with a CCJ, in case she tries it again. Also, if she has assets/is employed (at some point in the future), a judgement could be enforced.


It's looking like i gotta bite the bullet and just accept it. i hvae a waiting tenant, and any dispute could end in further damage to the property or delay resulting in loss of the new tenant.Yes. Write of losses, learn from mistakes and move on.


(it's almost as if renting is guaranteed hassle!)It is, unless you educate yourself first. HB/LHA is a risk. In future, remember to only accept T's with a deposit & working guarantor in advance of letting.

CBrad
12-11-2009, 18:21 PM
Surely if a tenant claims Housing Benefit and does not pay Rent with it, this is Benefit Fraud. (albeit a mild form) :confused:

alteano1965
12-11-2009, 18:59 PM
If its is af any intereest, my experience was:

1- Had a tenancy agreement with a person who was working
2- Without me knowing he started to claim Housing Benefit (I suppose I did not need to know, as the Council never contacted me about his claim), I found out by accident
3- Tenant stopped paying rent
4- Council continued to pay Housing Benefit to tenant
5- I Spoke to the Council, but they were not very helpful
6- At the hearing, Judge says the tenant must go to the Council to be rehoused

If previous reply is correct then, in theory the Tenant has done nothing wrong by taking the money to pay for housing and not doing so, which resulted in him being evicted, and now that he is being evicted the Council has to find him a house???

Regards

Alteano

tom999
12-11-2009, 19:10 PM
If previous reply is correct then, in theory the Tenant has done nothing wrong by taking the money to pay for housing and not doing so, which resulted in him being evicted,Tenancy is between LL & T; Council are not party to this. Claim is between T & Council; LL has no say in this.

and now that he is being evicted the Council has to find him a house???Yes, it's a crazy system. AKA legalised theft.

Emma1973
12-11-2009, 21:29 PM
Except the Council has no duty to house him as he has made himself intentionally homeless by being evicted for rent arrears!

tom999
13-11-2009, 06:22 AM
If T is in rent arrears & is evicted, this may not be classed as T making themselves 'intentionally homeless'. It's up to the council to investigate and make a decision based on the circumstances. See: Judge allows time for tenants to file a defence (http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=23087&page=2), post #13.

I know of quite a few cases where evicted (due to arrears) tenants, have been rehoused by the council.

CBrad
23-11-2009, 19:37 PM
For Info

Tenant was evicted due to damage to house.

Now, because they are on eviction notice and know they are likely to ahve money taken from deposit have withheld rent to the valus of the deposit.

Taken legal advice on this (as landlord insurance covers this) and they advise to threaten to sue, then attempt to sue if there is no response. i was advised that whilst they may be DSS and not able to pay any award be the court, the court may issue CCJ. - which i think is better that letting off scott free. - i have to face my liabilities so why shouldn't everyone else!?

islandgirl
24-11-2009, 08:33 AM
The only problem is that if you sue it costs you money and if they have no assets you have no chance of recovery. I have been there! Bad tenants, no rent, kept benefit, rehoused by council, car repossessed (not by us), everything else worthless or hp - it is awful but it may be best just to move on....

westminster
24-11-2009, 15:46 PM
For Info

Tenant was evicted due to damage to house.

Now, because they are on eviction notice and know they are likely to ahve money taken from deposit have withheld rent to the valus of the deposit.

Taken legal advice on this (as landlord insurance covers this) and they advise to threaten to sue, then attempt to sue if there is no response. i was advised that whilst they may be DSS and not able to pay any award be the court, the court may issue CCJ. - which i think is better that letting off scott free. - i have to face my liabilities so why shouldn't everyone else!?
Is there any likelihood T may one day be employed (or is T permanently unemployed/unemployable)? You have many years after the CCJ is awarded in which to enforce it (at least 6).