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Evergreen
03-11-2009, 17:20 PM
Hi all

When I get tenants to sign contracts, I get them to sign an s21 aswell - this is the right thing to do right? As a min of 2 months notice is required

And if it's a 6 month contract with a 3 month break clause, can I evict any erroneous tenants after the 3 months is up via the accelerated eviction procedure?

thank u in advance

jta
03-11-2009, 17:31 PM
Hi all

When I get tenants to sign contracts, I get them to sign an s21 aswell - this is the right thing to do right? As a min of 2 months notice is required


Issuing a S21 with the contract does not give your tenants a warm feeling, there is nothing to stop you issuing it at the 4 month point of the tenancy, in any case, if you have not protected the deposit before it was issued, it would be invalid. Search 'sword of damocles' here and read all about S21s.




And if it's a 6 month contract with a 3 month break clause, can I evict any erroneous tenants after the 3 months is up via the accelerated eviction procedure?

thank u in advance

No. You cannot evict anyone before a minimum of six months, except in very special circumstances. That's why, in your contract it say's 'a term certain of six months', it gives the tenant a small amount of security.

jeffrey
03-11-2009, 17:34 PM
When I get tenants to sign contracts, I get them to sign an s21 aswell - this is the right thing to do right?
You can, as long as the AST has started by then, but it's not a popularly-endorsed or appreciated tactic for L with a new T.

jeffrey
03-11-2009, 17:37 PM
You cannot evict anyone before a minimum of six months, except in very special circumstances.
Yes. Under s.8 of the Housing Act 1988, L can use one or more of the eighteen grounds (1-17 + 14A) listed in Schedule 2 to the Act, even during the fixed term, but only if any are available in the circumstances.

Evergreen
03-11-2009, 18:15 PM
Hi

Well i would only try to evict tenants if they weren't paying the rent or if they were causing my neighbours anti social problems - would this be one of the 18 grounds for evicting someone via an s8 prior to the expiry of the 6 month contract?

Jeffrey, you mentioned that i can issue one 'as long as the tenency has started' - they will both be signed at the same time, is this valid?

Rgding this point: 'if you have not protected the deposit before it was issued, it would be invalid' - this would mean i cannot issue an s21 on the date of the tenency being signed as the deposit is not secured on that day - we secure ours within 14 days

Please clarify these 3 points, many thanks

Snorkerz
03-11-2009, 18:22 PM
Hi

Well i would only try to evict tenants if they weren't paying the rent or if they were causing my neighbours anti social problems - would this be one of the 18 grounds for evicting someone via an s8 prior to the expiry of the 6 month contract?

The grounds are here: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/ukpga_19880050_en_14#sch2


Rgding this point: 'if you have not protected the deposit before it was issued, it would be invalid' - this would mean i cannot issue an s21 on the date of the tenency being signed as the deposit is not secured on that day - we secure ours within 14 days
Then yes, after it is secured, you can issue your s21 - not before.

I can see no need to issue your s21 so early, the speediest way to deal with errant tenants is s8, and non-errant tenants need to be kept in the current economic climate!!!

Evergreen
03-11-2009, 19:00 PM
oh, i thought the speediest way was via an s21? the reason i dont do s8s is because i dont chase people for the rent arrears, as they dont have the finances

i encounter many errant tenants, hence my strategy, which was advised by my solicitor might i add!

mind the gap
03-11-2009, 19:06 PM
Please read these reactions to the idea:

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=23516

jta
03-11-2009, 19:07 PM
oh, i thought the speediest way was via an s21? the reason i dont do s8s is because i dont chase people for the rent arrears, as they dont have the finances

i encounter many errant tenants, hence my strategy, which was advised by my solicitor might i add!

If you do get a court order, you have several years during which you can enforce it. In that time your debtors may well come into some money and you also have the satisfaction of knowing they have a ccj against their names.

If your solicitor gives you that sort of advice, get a new solicitor!

Lawcruncher
03-11-2009, 19:11 PM
A S.21 notice should not be issued until both (a) the tenant is in occupation and (b) and deposit has been protected.

P.Pilcher
03-11-2009, 21:41 PM
A common law tenancy - as used for commercial lettings - requires the tenant to vacate the premises on or before the day of expiry unless a renewal is granted. This is normal practice which many agents are used to. For domestic lettings where the rent is below £25,000 per annum, it doesn't work like that - once the AST expires, it is automatically replaced by the statutory periodic tenancy as we know. By issuing a section 21 notice, expiring when the fixed term of the AST expires, the AST is converted into, in effect, a sort of "commercial" one i.e. the tenant is expected to move on expiry of the lease unless it is renewed.
An agent I used recently tried this on the tenant they found for me despite being instructed not to do so. It would probably have failed should I have used it as it was issued before I got said tenant's deposit into the DPS, however as soon as I discovered that it had been issued, I immediately withdrew it in writing. Because of the "Sword of Damoclese" situation that this policy gives rise to, it is something I never do without very good reason.

P.P.

Snorkerz
04-11-2009, 12:48 PM
oh, i thought the speediest way was via an s21? the reason i dont do s8s is because i dont chase people for the rent arrears, as they dont have the finances

i encounter many errant tenants, hence my strategy, which was advised by my solicitor might i add!

Example: 6 month AST

Tenant moves in 1st Jan, misses Feb & March rent. Issue s8 2nd March, issue court paperwork 14 days later.

Tenant moves in 1st Jan, misses Feb & March rent. Issue s21 2nd March - 30 April, issue court paperwork 1st July.

s8 will need a court appearance, s21 often doesn't. You can start a s8 online at www.pcol.gov.uk.

jeffrey
04-11-2009, 12:57 PM
Tenant moves in 1 Jan, misses Feb & March rent. Issue s21 2nd March - 30 April, issue court paperwork 1 July.
Read that as "Tenant moves in 1 Jan, misses Feb & March rent. Issue s.21 Notice 2 March - 1 May (two months' Notice period expiry), issue court paperwork on or after 2 May, but no Possession Order can take effect until after 30 June (fixed-term expiry) at the earliest."

Snorkerz
04-11-2009, 15:57 PM
Read that as "Tenant moves in 1 Jan, misses Feb & March rent. Issue s.21 Notice 2 March - 1 May (two months' Notice period expiry), issue court paperwork on or after 2 May, but no Possession Order can take effect until after 30 June (fixed-term expiry) at the earliest."

My bad... I'm now educated just a little bit more

jeffrey
04-11-2009, 17:22 PM
Alternative: Tenant moves in 1 Jan, misses Feb. rent. Issue s.8 Notice (on g8/10) on 2 March. Issue court paperwork on or after 17 March.