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Stressed Landlord
30-10-2009, 20:34 PM
Alright Everyone,

Have got a knightmare tenant who keeps causing one problem or another. The latest problem is the tenant wants to pay rent every 28 days as opposed to per calendar month as stated on the contract. The rent is £575 pcm, but at 28 days works out less. This might be straight forward for those that are seasoned landlords, but i dont have a clue on how to work this out firstly and secondly am i being ripped off. Hope someone can help. Cheers.

tom999
30-10-2009, 20:51 PM
Would it be possible for T to pay £575 every 4 weeks (equivalent to 28 days)?

This will mean more rent then if £575 paid monthly.

Any offer to do this, would of course be subject to consideration of other problems that you've mentioned.

theartfullodger
30-10-2009, 20:53 PM
Two choices I think...

a) Tell T to stick to the contract he signed or b****er off...
b) Offer a new contract with rent payable every 28 days....

It is possible he is paid/gets benefits weekly/fortnightly/every-28-days...


How to calculate the new amount? Current monthly rentx12/365 times 28.

So if £575/mo, it will be £575x12 = £6,900 divided by 365 then times 28 => £529:31.

Good news? Every leap year you gain a day's rent.

However T sounds like a right p*** in the *** so if it were me I'd decline is kind suggestion...

Cheers!

Lodger

jta
30-10-2009, 21:04 PM
Alright Everyone,

Have got a knightmare tenant who keeps causing one problem or another. The latest problem is the tenant wants to pay rent every 28 days as opposed to per calendar month as stated on the contract. The rent is £575 pcm, but at 28 days works out less. This might be straight forward for those that are seasoned landlords, but i dont have a clue on how to work this out firstly and secondly am i being ripped off. Hope someone can help. Cheers.

If you multiply 28 x 13 (lunar months) then you get 364 days. So you would lose out on a days rent every year, 2 days in a leap year. You need to take this into account when working out the 28 day figure. If you add 1.45 each 28 day period, to the figures you get from your calculator you will be within pennies of the 6900 annual rent. Or add 1.50 and be in profit.
This is worked out on a daily rate of 18.90 something.

Poppy
31-10-2009, 11:47 AM
I don’t see how the landlord would lose a day’s rent every year because the landlord should continue to demand rent every 28 days for the whole time the tenancy exists. Obviously a 28 day charging period does not fit exactly into a calendar year.

Starting from an annual rent of £6,900 on a 365 day year, My calculation is a 28 day charging period equates to £529.32 rounded up (from £529.3151)

Compare this:

annualised monthly rent = £6,900 = formula £575 x 12

annualised 28 day rent = £6,900.06 = formula £529.32 / 28 x 365

Another method, to cut a long story short I can obtain an annualised 28 day rent of £6,900.02 if I start calculations using a 366 day year and continue on that basis.

There are ways and there are ways. Just make sure whatever calculation you choose you do not lose. :cool:

I actually think current time periods are wholly inaccurate if you consider we have to adjust things every four years. Getting a bit technical now…

quarterday
31-10-2009, 16:52 PM
lunar monthly rents used to be quite popular (ie every four weeks) and quite a few local authorities still pay HB fortnightly in arrears.(ie twice per lunar month)

There are of course 13 lunar months of 28 days in a year as opposed to 12 cal months.

I would suggest to keep in simple that you prepare a standing order mandate for your tenant's signature specifying a weekly rental amount to be transferred to your bank account at the appropriate rental equivalent to 1/52 of the annual rent. Cant really argue with that, can they?

mind the gap
31-10-2009, 17:08 PM
I would suggest to keep in simple that you prepare a standing order mandate for your tenant's signature specifying a weekly rental amount to be transferred to your bank account at the appropriate rental equivalent to 1/52 of the annual rent. Cant really argue with that, can they?

Good idea, but if you do as quarterday suggests, I think you will need to supply her with a rent book or weekly receipts as well.

johnboy
01-11-2009, 07:22 AM
The bottom line is if you accept the rent every 28 days (the correct calulation) you will recieve 13 payment over a year which will equat to the same (or bloody close) as 12 monthly payments.

I dont think it would be a good idea to change the contract to 28 days because it could cause problems in serving any s21 if the contract ever went peroidic.

Just do a basic spreadsheet with the date, funds in, funds out (your payment) and balance.

Very easy to manage just make a note of the 4 week payment dates because it is very easy to forget when the next payment is due.

P.Pilcher
01-11-2009, 11:52 AM
I don't think that there is a rent book problem when accepting rents paid weekly provided that the rental agreement requires the rent to be paid monthly or on an appropriate 28 day basis.

P.P.

jeffrey
01-11-2009, 23:25 PM
lunar monthly rents used to be quite popular (ie every four weeks) and quite a few local authorities still pay HB fortnightly in arrears.(ie twice per lunar month)

There are of course 13 lunar months of 28 days in a year as opposed to 12 cal months.
Pedant's note: a twenty-eight day period is not a lunar month but simply a twenty-eight day (or four-week) period.

Moderator1
02-11-2009, 10:08 AM
Humorous posts on this thread have been moved to a new 'Lunar months/ four-week rent periods' thread on Take A Break:
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=23561

jeffrey
02-11-2009, 10:34 AM
I don't think that there is a rent book problem when accepting rents paid weekly provided that the rental agreement requires the rent to be paid monthly or on an appropriate 28 day basis.
I agree. A rent book or equivalent is essential only for a rent reserved weekly.
If a rent reserved fortnightly/four-weekly/monthly etc. is paid weekly for convenieince, that is not a weekly rent for these purposes.

dontberidiculous
15-09-2011, 10:39 AM
Alright Everyone,

Have got a knightmare (nightmare) tenant who keeps causing one problem or another. The latest problem is the tenant wants to pay rent every 28 days as opposed to per calendar month as stated on (in) the contract. The rent is £575 pcm, but at 28 days works out less. This might be straight forward for those that are seasoned landlords, but i (I) dont have a clue on how to work this out firstly(,) and secondly am i(I) being ripped off.(?) Hope someone can help. Cheers.

Because of you and many of the other 'landlords' in this forum, I feel truly appalled. First, you don't seem to be taking into account (as others have mentioned) that pcm (per-calendar-month) is rather foolish. It nets you that 1 or 2 extra days of rent that you under-handedly extract from your tenants, and for what? You cause them to have a nice headache by having un-even intervals for payments, and yet 'you' claim you are the one being bothered.

Try making your contract less idiotic, my friend. Making rent payable per calendar month is the same as saying: "First you pay your rent on the 28th day, then you pay on the 31st day, then you pay on the 30th day, then you pay on the 31st day again" - idiotic. 28 days is infinitely easier for both the tenant and the landlord. Not only are many people's paychecks given every 28 days, but most bills will also be set on a 28 day cycle. Poor you for getting 'ripped off' for one days rent because you were dumb enough to do things pcm. A clever tenant will recognize you are attempting to cheat/rip 'them' off with pcm.

I recognize, as logic dictates, you must use pcm as opposed to every 28 days due to the fact it allows you to set a 'seemingly' lower up-front rental price for your advertisements. How about this: You all stop being crooked, and just do the math to make your rent come out to the amount you want per annum while utilizing every 28 days?

Here's the math for you, since a human who believes this to be a 'big issue' is clearly not going to do the math for him/herself: There are 365 days in a year. 365 / 28 = 13.04 Clearly it can only ever be 13, so 28 * 13 = 364 days (OH NO! Says the fool 'landlord', I lost a days rent!). Fear not, little chipmunk, why not simply make your rent payable every 28 days, and increase the rent by the same ratio as is lost from that .04? I'm sure that was completely lost on you, so here's an easy equation.

Your current pcm rent = £575
If it 'were' per 28 days it would = £573.42 (ratio between 364 and 365 [364/365] * rent)

So, you simply increase you rent by 365/364 = £576.579, which you could simply round off to £576 per 28 days.

Here's the proof, for the mathematically challenged:

£575 per calendar month = £1.575 per day.
£576 per 28 days = £1.582 per day

Amazing! They both round to the same amount: £1.58 per day.

The difference between you and me = You're lazy beyond belief. You shouldn't be a landlord. I challenge each and every one of you to dare put your business names on this website in each of your posts; I want to know which 'landlords' to avoid like the black plague.

MrJohnnyB
15-09-2011, 10:46 AM
Because of you and many of the other 'landlords' in this forum, I feel truly appalled. First, you don't seem to be taking into account (as others have mentioned) that pcm (per-calendar-month) is rather foolish. It nets you that 1 or 2 extra days of rent that you under-handedly extract from your tenants, and for what? You cause them to have a nice headache by having un-even intervals for payments, and yet 'you' claim you are the one being bothered.

Try making your contract less idiotic, my friend. Making rent payable per calendar month is the same as saying: "First you pay your rent on the 28th day, then you pay on the 31st day, then you pay on the 30th day, then you pay on the 31st day again" - idiotic. 28 days is infinitely easier for both the tenant and the landlord. Not only are many people's paychecks given every 28 days, but most bills will also be set on a 28 day cycle. Poor you for getting 'ripped off' for one days rent because you were dumb enough to do things pcm. A clever tenant will recognize you are attempting to cheat/rip 'them' off with pcm.

I recognize, as logic dictates, you must use pcm as opposed to every 28 days due to the fact it allows you to set a 'seemingly' lower up-front rental price for your advertisements. How about this: You all stop being crooked, and just do the math to make your rent come out to the amount you want per annum while utilizing every 28 days?

Here's the math for you, since a human who believes this to be a 'big issue' is clearly not going to do the math for him/herself: There are 365 days in a year. 365 / 28 = 13.04 Clearly it can only ever be 13, so 28 * 13 = 364 days (OH NO! Says the fool 'landlord', I lost a days rent!). Fear not, little chipmunk, why not simply make your rent payable every 28 days, and increase the rent by the same ratio as is lost from that .04? I'm sure that was completely lost on you, so here's an easy equation.

Your current pcm rent = £575
If it 'were' per 28 days it would = £573.42 (ratio between 364 and 365 [364/365] * rent)

So, you simply increase you rent by 365/364 = £576.579, which you could simply round off to £576 per 28 days.

Here's the proof, for the mathematically challenged:

£575 per calendar month = £1.575 per day.
£576 per 28 days = £1.582 per day

Amazing! They both round to the same amount: £1.58 per day.

The difference between you and me = You're lazy beyond belief. You shouldn't be a landlord. I challenge each and every one of you to dare put your business names on this website in each of your posts; I want to know which 'landlords' to avoid like the black plague.

Your rant is probably going to go un-noticed (this thread is 2 years old) but a couple of issues I raise. When rent is demanded per calendar month, it means it will be collected as it sounds - the same day irrespective of what day of the month it is. It's not idiotic, it's common practice and is a fraction of the annual rent. As you say 365 doesn't go into 28 easily, furthermore, it makes the practice of using standing orders difficult.

Besides, all of your calculations don't actually take into account the guidance on calculating rent, which has been explained in other posts. If you actually want to rant, perhaps you should read up on the law and regulatory guidance on these things before whinging about landlords.

Furthermore, your rant does not also take into account the fact that a tenancy with periods of 28 days and not a full month is not bought the same amount of protection at SPT than a monthly tenancy.

For your information, I am not a landlord, I just dont buy into the whole media stereotyping of Landlords as being rich, lazy, harsh individuals - the stereotype that you seem to have bought into. It would also be worth noting that the bulk of the advice given on these forums is to assist tenants.

Snorkerz
15-09-2011, 10:51 AM
What an interesting post.

To any landlords swayed by dontberidiculous' debut post, please bear in mind that a tenancy period can be of any length you like, however, only weekly, fortnightly, monthly (pcm), quarterly or annually are able to use section 8 ground 8 for mandatory eviction on non payment of rent.

Pehaps DBR would be prepared to reveal his personal details on a public forum. Sadly as landlords we are not allowed to advertise our business names on the forum - read the forum rules.

johnboy
15-09-2011, 16:51 PM
From reading the post by DBR he has never had to pay a mortgage pcm, been paid pcm or know the chance of getting the dates incorrect on a s21 if 4 weekly increase greatly.

theartfullodger
15-09-2011, 17:31 PM
One of the great benefits of reading this fair forum is you realise you ain't in such as mess as various other poor posters dealing with dreadful and/or criminal landlords/personality-disorders/tenants/agents/whatever.


DBR I hope you get better soon, if not try changing the medication.

Sigh! Free speech does come at a price....

mariner
15-09-2011, 21:19 PM
No doubt DBR would prefer to return to pre-decimalisation and the sensible, simple system of pounds, shillings & pence rather than get confused by those irritating decimal points on his calculator!