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herstonbell
29-10-2009, 19:59 PM
We are looking at potentially wanting to rent a property for between 3 - 7 years and wondered if there was a specific type of tenancy/lease that would be required for such a long let. The main reason is that we are willing to invest in the property but want the guarantee of being able to stay for a longer period that the normal 6 or 12 month AST. I had heard that it is possible to agree a longer term agreement and also that it wasn't possible and therefore would like to find a definitive answer

Many thanks

mind the gap
29-10-2009, 22:34 PM
We are looking at potentially wanting to rent a property for between 3 - 7 years and wondered if there was a specific type of tenancy/lease that would be required for such a long let. The main reason is that we are willing to invest in the property but want the guarantee of being able to stay for a longer period that the normal 6 or 12 month AST. I had heard that it is possible to agree a longer term agreement and also that it wasn't possible and therefore would like to find a definitive answer

Many thanks

It is possible to have an AST agreement for (I think) up to 7 years; if over three years, it must be a written agreement (less than 3 years can be orally granted although this is not ideal). However, from a landlord's point of view, it is something of a gamble to grant a tenancy of this length especially with tenants he does not know. It is more usual to grant a 12 month AST first, then if all goes well, to sign a longer one, or to allow the tenancy to become periodic.

From your point of view as well, you would be locking yourself into a very long commitment - what if the property turned out not to be what you hoped for, or your circumstances changed? I would go for a 12 month one to begin with, to make sure you like the place and have a good relationship with the LL.

herstonbell
30-10-2009, 07:59 AM
Hi
thanks for info - if i could put our situation into context it may affect any further comments or advice given.

Having sold our house and ploughed all the money into a new business which will repay our loan by 2014 we are in the situation of having to rent. Have moved 6 times in 6 years so hence the desire for longish term rental.

Where we are based in the UK there are a number of National Trust properties available for let and also 2 private estates that have estate housing. All the above 3 tend to be long-term rental opportunities.

The current house we are in (owned by friends) was at the start going to be a long term rental opportunity for us (up to and beyond 10 years) and on this basis we invested £10K into the property. We have now been notified that owners daughter and husband what to buy the house (well three quaters of it) and we have to move out. Not wanting to ruin a 15 year friendship we are going to be moving out.

The house that we are looking at is owned by one the local private estates and is in a small rural village. The landlord is putting in a new kitchen but isn't prepared to put in a new bathroom which is revolting - cracked tiles, mould, mildew, bare walls, cracked sinks and set up at the moment with a disabled shower unit which is awful. We simply cannot get the landlord, via the agent, to agree to redo the bathroom. Hence our offer to install one at our expense but with a gauranteed 3 year agreement. Landlord only prepared to offer 2 years at the moment.

We simply don't want to end up as we are now having invested money and having no redress and being asked to move out.

The only other option I would suggest as a prospective tenant would be an agreement that if we were asked to move out by the landlord, after an initial 6 or 12 month period then there would be some financial recompense for the money we have spent on having a new bathroom installed - is this "normal" parctice or able to be included in the agreement?

Sorry to waffle on with our life story but yes we do know this is where we would like to live long-termish but think that our "standards" and that of the ladnlord regarding the bathroom are slightly different in this instance!

Poppy
30-10-2009, 09:26 AM
What do you mean invest in the property? I don’t expect my tenants to touch my property other than by fair usage.

In my opinion (and probably a majority of residential landlords) it is a bad idea to permit tenants to install something as important as a bathroom suite. A better idea is to negotiate with the prospective landlord to replace the bathroom before commencing the tenancy. If he says no, then find a different property to rent. If you find a landlord who agrees to your demands to "invest", I think they are being foolish.

jeffrey
30-10-2009, 10:11 AM
It is possible to have an AST agreement for (I think) up to 7 years; if over three years, it must be a written agreement (less than 3 years can be orally granted although this is not ideal).
There is no maximum (nor minimum) for an AST.
But a letting [i.e. any letting- whether AST, SAT, common-law residential, business tenancy, or otherwise]:
a. for over three years must be in writing (not oral); and
b. for over seven years must:
i. be by Deed; and
ii. be registered at HMLR.

mind the gap
30-10-2009, 10:52 AM
Thanks for clarifyting that, Jeffrey.

I knew 7 years came into it somewhere! I got my info from an old LLZ thread but that was clearly not quite right.

:confused: Still not quite sure why it's called a shorthold tenancy if iit can be for a very long time. Perhaps it's like public schools which are not for the general public at all, in reality.

jeffrey
30-10-2009, 12:37 PM
It's typically a shorter letting than, er, a long lease.

mind the gap
30-10-2009, 12:41 PM
Doh!

Yes, i do reaise that, but since it is a legal term and lawyers don't usually 'do' thigs which are 'typicaal' or 'generally the case;, I wondered how this one had got through the net.

Surely a better name would be 'assured defined- term tenancy'.

Not that i want to give the lawyers a heart attack or anything. :)

jeffrey
30-10-2009, 12:45 PM
Surely a better name would be 'assured defined- term tenancy'.
No, because an AST can be created as an explicit contractual tenancy from day1; it need never be a fixed ('defined') term.

jeffrey
30-10-2009, 12:46 PM
Doh!

Yes, i do reaise that, but since it is a legal term and lawyers don't usually 'do' thigs which are 'typicaal' or 'generally the case;, I wondered how this one had got through the net.

Surely a better name would be 'assured defined- term tenancy'.

Not that i want to give the lawyers a heart attack or anything.
Today's game, children: how many typos can you spot in that post? I see six!

Bel
30-10-2009, 13:03 PM
OP: everything is up for negotiation in my book.

If you are going to use goods tradesmen and the LL can approve the fittings, I would let you do it, if I felt that it was a good scheme.

You will probably need to pay rather a lot in legal fees to get something drawn up if they decide to end tenancy before 3 years. You will probably need to foot the legal bill for both parties.

The LL will either refuse or accept..but you must be prepared to walk away.

If you can pay a fair wack of rent up front this may sweeten the deal.

teeps
30-10-2009, 13:28 PM
you could offer to pay rent up front, but that would be a large amount over say 5 yrs. you would be better to buy a small house again as an investment for the future

dominic
30-10-2009, 13:57 PM
There is no maximum (nor minimum) for an AST.
But a letting [i.e. any letting- whether AST, SAT, common-law residential, business tenancy, or otherwise]:
a. for over three years must be in writing (not oral); and
b. for over seven years must:
i. be by Deed; and
ii. be registered at HMLR.

a. is not strictly correct.

For agreements creating a tenancy subsisting for over three years the agreement must be made by deed, which means it must be executed in writing and delivered as a deed, and witnessed (assuming LL and T are individuals).

westminster
30-10-2009, 14:02 PM
The house that we are looking at is owned by one the local private estates and is in a small rural village. The landlord is putting in a new kitchen but isn't prepared to put in a new bathroom which is revolting - cracked tiles, mould, mildew, bare walls, cracked sinks and set up at the moment with a disabled shower unit which is awful. We simply cannot get the landlord, via the agent, to agree to redo the bathroom. Hence our offer to install one at our expense but with a gauranteed 3 year agreement. Landlord only prepared to offer 2 years at the moment.

We simply don't want to end up as we are now having invested money and having no redress and being asked to move out.

I don't understand why you are even considering spending money on improvements to someone else's rental property, and appear to think this is normal?

A very easy solution is to find somewhere that doesn't need any work done to it (not difficult), take a standard length tenancy, and renew it if you like living there.

herstonbell
30-10-2009, 20:47 PM
thanks for all the comments and advice given. My main question of can a landlord issue a 3 year tenancy has been answered and we have now agreed this with our new landlord.

In answer to some of the comments made - in our neck of the woods where there are a number of private estates (owned by what we would term as the landed gentry in the 18th/19th century) it is not uncommon for tenants to carry out repairs and improvements in return for longer lets and reduced rents. It may not be "standard/normal" practice or advisable and tenants do have to get the approval of any work done but as I said it's not uncommon.

Bel
31-10-2009, 10:42 AM
In answer to some of the comments made - in our neck of the woods where there are a number of private estates (owned by what we would term as the landed gentry in the 18th/19th century) it is not uncommon for tenants to carry out repairs and improvements in return for longer lets and reduced rents. It may not be "standard/normal" practice or advisable and tenants do have to get the approval of any work done but as I said it's not uncommon.

Yes, from what I have heard they have some very funny ideas about letting tenants upgrade what should be their statutory duty, and then put up the rent.

mind the gap
31-10-2009, 11:08 AM
Today's game, children: how many typos can you spot in that post? I see six!

Humblest apologies, O Great Spotter. I'll go and get in the stocks now and pelt myself with rotten marrow. I was about to proof-read it - honest! - but some crisis intervened and the edit function had timed out before I got the chance to correct the typos.

(I spotted a whole post you wrote yesterday which made no sense at all - at least not to the recipient - but I was kind enough not to point it out :))

mind the gap
31-10-2009, 11:12 AM
Yes, from what I have heard they have some very funny ideas about letting tenants upgrade what should be their statutory duty, and then put up the rent.

Yes, I agree this is a bit feudal, however if T goes into any arrangement with their eyes open, it can work. I was once very tempted by the prospect of living in a lighthouse and renovating it, for a very low rent, with a guarantee of at least 20 years' lease. Trouble was, it was about 300 miles away from where I work.

quarterday
31-10-2009, 15:56 PM
Absolute accuracy is vitally improtant

mind the gap
31-10-2009, 16:03 PM
Absolute accuracy is vitally improtant

Improtant? Ha! Like absolute ablatives in Latin, quarterday :D They are important, too!

I have to say, I agree with you...although 'vitally' might be an overstatement, since the effects of typographical inaccuracy on this forum are rarely, if ever, life-threatening.

jeffrey
01-11-2009, 22:15 PM
improtant
'Nuff said.