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siv244
18-10-2009, 09:57 AM
Hi ,I have Maroccan student renting my flat .She says her Shorthold tenancy agreement is not enough to get her rent paid directly to my bank account form Morocco.
My letting agent gave her all my bank details and signed the document and dated it,however it is not enough.Apparently the document has to look official and be stamped!
I asked her why and she showed me her sisters tenancy agreement in France and she said it was enough proof and that she gets her rent paid directly to her lanlord in France.
I said to my tenant that I cannot give her another" French type" tenancy agreement just so that the Moroccan authorities can pay the rent directly to me, as it is illegal for me to do so.
I think Morocco has similar French type agreements so they understand it ,what I do not understand is why the Moroccan's do not understand that our tenancy agreement is different.
My tenant also said that they cannot understand the cost is so high .I do not know how to help her and her rent now is not paid.
Any ideas would be appreciated.

mind the gap
18-10-2009, 10:13 AM
There are a number of possible responses to this problem, I think.

First, what is the difference between the French agreement she showed you, and your AST, other than the fact that it the former is presumably in French? If it is only a problem of language, then she could pay to get it translated.

Second, overseas students generally expect to have to pay at least six months rent up front (sometimes twelve) since they cannot usefully be credit-checked. They are also expected to have a UK-based guarantor with an address in England/Wales. If you insisted on neither of these conditions, then you have yourself to blame for the mess, to some extent.

However, pragmatically, you could perhaps explore the possibility of getting your local council's tenancy officer to confirm that you are the LL and she is the tenant at X address from (date to date), and stamp the agreement with their council stamp, if that is all the Moroccan authorities are after.

Otherwise, unless she can stump up the money herself, you may end up having to serve a s8 notice and pointing her in the direction of the Uni accommodation office who may be able to house her and satisy the Moroccan authorities more easily than you can, that she is a bona fide applicant. Then you can re-let to someone else. But it may be a long drawn-out process.

siv244
18-10-2009, 10:29 AM
Thank you for your reply, first of all the tenant had been in universtiy lodgings for the first year.She then was refrenced by my letting agent who insisted she paid 6 months rent in advance. Which her mother came to pay from Morocco. after this period she has paid more or less on time ,how, I do not know.
She signed another tenancy agreement with me for another year recently and then said she wanted the authorities in Morocco to pay it directly to me.
She said her sister in France got her's paid directly by showing her French tenancy agreement (obviosly in french)and did not need other documents.So my tenant said if I could produce similar document she is certain it would be enough proof,and the rent would be paid.
I have copy of her sisters french tenancy agreement ,a very simple document,our shorthold agreement not enough it seems.

mind the gap
18-10-2009, 10:42 AM
I have copy of her sisters french tenancy agreement ,a very simple document,our shorthold agreement not enough it seems.

Do you read French?

Has she explained exactly what it is about your AST which is 'not enough' to satisfy the Moroccan authorities? Until that is established, you'll get nowhere, I fear. It may be worth asking her to talk nicely to a French-speaking lecturer at her Uni/College and ask them to ring the relevant Moroccan dept on her behalf, to try to establish what evidence they will accept and in what language/form, and why her English TA is not acceptable.

I cannot make out whether you are saying that the Moroccan authorities are happy to pay her direct, but not you. If that is the case then why can't she just set up a standing order to your account to leave her account the day after the payment from Morocco is made into it? That way she is less likely to spend it before paying you.

If none of these suggestions are any help, I'm afraid I cannot think of anything esle.

Perhaps someone else can?

siv244
18-10-2009, 11:31 AM
Thank you for your kind help. The Maroccan authorities will not pay her direct but want to pay to my bank account direct.
I do know about paying direct to lanlords account as my other tenants do that . I have given her my bank standing order mandate but it was not good enough,
the tenancy agreement ,the tenant check in list which has relevant details and is signed by her.
I will ask her to get the college to help as they were able to get the rent from the authorities paid to them.
I think because the rent is high by Moroccan standars (central london)she said they question it!

Snorkerz
18-10-2009, 11:48 AM
I suspect, as alluded to by MTG, the problem is that the AST is in English, and the language in Morrocco is French. The number of people in my local housing office who would be willing to accept an agreement in French is likely to be less than 1 - even one written in Welsh would cause disruption - and I'm in Wales.

Not really Ls problem, but if T translates it / or gets it translated then L may have no idea what she is signing!

If OP clarifies with T if this is the problem, then L could get it independantly translated, or a simplified version thereof, and T could/should pay for the service.

theartfullodger
18-10-2009, 11:55 AM
The Maroccan authorities will not pay her direct but want to pay to my bank account direct.

Could the Moroccan authorities please let the UK government know that paying the Landlord direct is a good idea, but paying the tenant direct a bad idea? Landlords seem to have tried everything else to get sense seen over HB/LHA paid the tenants: Maybe the Moroccans will do better!

Cheers!

Lodger

davidjohnbutton
18-10-2009, 12:00 PM
Why not telephone the moroccan authorities yourself and find out. At first try and get someone who speaks english on the other end, then if that fails you will have to get an interpreter from language line http://www.languageline.co.uk/page/industry_consumer/

siv244
18-10-2009, 12:20 PM
Thank you for all your advise, I will talk to her later today to try and get to the bottom of this,maybe the college can shed some light on this.
I have another question .The bt telephone line has been disconnected to the flat as nobody has used it for more than 6 months. The reconnection fee is £122.50.
this tenant wants to have broadband ,now do I pay to have it connected or is it her cost?and if I pay for reconnection and the next tenant does not use it the line will be disconnected again.
what do other lanlords do in this situation?

davidjohnbutton
18-10-2009, 12:28 PM
She wants telephone or BB, she pays all costs. There is no obligation on you to provide a working telephone line unless your contract stipulates it.

Gazou
18-10-2009, 16:42 PM
Could this be a "form over substance" issue with the Moroccan officials?

If they are used to seeing a document with plenty of official stamps and like formalities that indicate it is not something someone has submitted having merely run it up on their own word processor, perhaps they are troubled that the agreement between you and your Moroccan tenant is not of the quality in form of, say, the agreement from France upon which they are happy to make payment. Add any language/translation issues and perhaps an absence of standard form recitals in an English law agreement that may appear in French and Moroccan agreements, and their first instinct may well be to reject the agreement as insufficient evidence to support direct payments.

Perhaps a solution (unlikely to be all that expensive but I do not know) is to have some notary public provide a covering certificate (preferably in French) recording the essential nature of the tenancy agreement, sealing and stamping the certificate and maybe too the copy tenancy agreement to look as impressive as possible and seeing if it is enough to find favour in Morocco?

jeffrey
18-10-2009, 17:05 PM
We are dealing with a let property in England & Wales, aren't we, siv244?
Also bear in mind that European legal systems are obsessed with everything being notarised. That's virtually never necessary in the UK.

mind the gap
18-10-2009, 17:26 PM
To make a document look very official, you will need:

A John Bull Printing Set
Some red candlewax, melted
A castle (rook) from chess set with coin wedged in top (for stamp)

mtg solutions inc

jeffrey
18-10-2009, 17:52 PM
As the member who posted this thread (or the tenant) is not English, let's keep things simple and not misleading!

Lawcruncher
18-10-2009, 18:07 PM
Perhaps a solution (unlikely to be all that expensive but I do not know) is to have some notary public provide a covering certificate (preferably in French) recording the essential nature of the tenancy agreement, sealing and stamping the certificate and maybe too the copy tenancy agreement to look as impressive as possible and seeing if it is enough to find favour in Morocco?

That may be the way to do it. However notaries are not that cheap and whatever the notary produces may still not be what is required. Best to ask for clarification.

mind the gap
18-10-2009, 18:07 PM
As the member who posted this thread (or the tenant) is not English, let's keep things simple and not misleading!

The tenant is indeed Moroccan, but she is not the one reading the answer.

Why do you think OP is not fluent in English? His/Her standard English production of the passive voice (amongst other constructions), not to mention the jokey content of my post, makes me think s/he will understand without too much trouble :)

Lawcruncher
18-10-2009, 18:10 PM
Also bear in mind that European legal systems are obsessed with everything being notarised.

Not obsessed - it is just the way they do things. It does make forgery/fraud involving important documents more difficult.

siv244
19-10-2009, 07:16 AM
Hi ,apparantly the rent is paid by the mother and the mother's bank in Morocco will not do the transfer.
My tenant asked me to add to the standard agreement what the flat consists of i.e one bed sitting et.
Bank thinks the rent is high by Moroccan standards ,most students do not live in central London exept perhaps sharing .
I have asked her to get the agreement translated to Arabic so the bank can see it is a legal document.
I hope in due course the rent will be paid.

Lawcruncher
19-10-2009, 10:04 AM
May possibly be something to do with Moroccan exchange control regulations.

jeffrey
19-10-2009, 11:23 AM
Hi ,apparantly the rent is paid by the mother and the mother's bank in Morocco will not do the transfer.
My tenant asked me to add to the standard agreement what the flat consists of i.e one bed sitting et.
Bank thinks the rent is high by Moroccan standards ,most students do not live in central London exept perhaps sharing .
I have asked her to get the agreement translated to Arabic so the bank can see it is a legal document.
I hope in due course the rent will be paid.
Why translate an English document into Arabic if the problem relates to a French-speaker's tenancy?

mind the gap
19-10-2009, 13:59 PM
Why translate an English document into Arabic if the problem relates to a French-speaker's tenancy?

Many Moroccan nationals are bi-lingual in Arabic (their first/native language) and French (the language of government/administration, although that is actually changing).

It would indeed make sense to have it translated into whichever language the tenant thought the Moroccan officials dealing with her claim, would prefer.

jeffrey
19-10-2009, 14:13 PM
I see. However, there are major risks in translating a technical English legal document- either due to:
a. the translator's lack of specialist knowledge; or, even worse
b. translating into Arabic from a French translation of the English original.

Lawcruncher
19-10-2009, 14:18 PM
Perhaps the problem is not that the bank do not understand the document, but that they have doubts about whether it is genuine.