Post your HMO experiences

[dhphoto]

I thought it might be a good idea to pool any findings when dealing with this new law.

If you have approached the council what sort of response did you get?
Did they demand a basin in every bedroom?
How much did the license cost?
Did the Council come and knock on doors to find you out?
Do you consider this (ridiculous) law to really be enforceable?

David

[dhphoto]

So, do not be afraid...unless you own a complete sh1thole, in which case be prepared to spend some money on it (or sell it on). And people are selling them on.

I'm not, I think I am actually a very generous and efficient landlord :)

I really mean post your experiences about whether the Council want to inspect, whether they can be harsh (as mine often have) and whether this general change is going to be as awful as I fear it will

David

[Energise]

I thought it might be a good idea to pool any findings when dealing with this new law.

If you have approached the council what sort of response did you get?

They don't seem to have much clue.

Did they demand a basin in every bedroom?

No.

How much did the license cost?

£150

Did the Council come and knock on doors to find you out?

No.

Do you consider this (ridiculous) law to really be enforceable?

David

Cant see a problem with enforcement.

[surreyLL]

If you have approached the council what sort of response did you get?

I live in a 6 bedroomed 3 storey house, and recently started to rent out 4 rooms. I called my local council after someone at work mentioned landlords now have to have a property license.

At first, they were quite intimidating. I was asked a lot of scary questions, such as had my mortgage company given consent (no), was I covered with insurance (yes), did I have a gas safety certificate (no), did I pay income tax (no), did I have an accountant (no) etc. At this point I was starting to regret calling them!

After scaring the life out of me, a Housing Officer came round to do an inspection. It turned out to be better meeting someone in person than discussing over the phone. He stayed for 2 hours, and explained all the things I needed to do to comply with the new HMO law.

Let me tell you, the wash basins are the least of your worries! I was told I would need an interlinked fire alarm system which could cost about £3500. I'd have to replace all doors with firedoors (that's 11 doors in my case, 3 doors which will could cost me £750, and 8 doors at £350 - price doesn't include fitting), fire protection on the wood around the stairs, certificates of regularisation for the new bathroom and kitchen I had put on the top floor which could involve someone from the council coming round and breaking the new tiles to check the work was done properly etc - I might even have to take out the kitchen for fire safety reasons, and from October I need to have a full electric safety inspection which cost approx £350 per year (or 2 years).

I contacted my mortgage company who said my mortgage would go up by 0.5% if I rented out, which is another £180 per month in my case. The property license is comparatively cheap at £75 per room for 5 years!

On the good side (if there is one), the Housing Officer thinks the law about the wash basins is ridiculous and might be thrown out. If I apply for the property license, they'll give me the full 5 year period to comply with the wash basins in the hope that this law might change. For the other requirements such as the fire alarms and firedoors, I would be allowed 6 months, although I might be able to negotiate this period.

I have to say the Housing Officer was quite sympathetic towards my situation, but explained that their job is to protect the tenants, and having been a student tenant once myself, I understand where they're coming from. But it's really made me think twice about renting out the rooms, and whether it's really worth it.

Oh one other thing. Due to a recent change in data protection law, the Housing Officers can get information from the council tax department about how many people live at an address, so unless they all have the same family name, you might well get a knock on the door! Not only that, but most HMOs are found out by someone shopping you in. I know if I have to pay for everything above, I will shop the others in!!

By the way, does anyone really think this isn't going to push the tenant's rent up?!

[SteveP]

I have been specifying and supervising building works to HMO's in Surrey for a long time, most local authorities are pretty sensible about these things and are happy to negotiate longer periods for compliance. My general impression is that if they see you are serious about doing the necessary work within a reasonable period they will often accept the period you propose. It may be that by using a professional and going to the local authority with a plan in place they are treated more favourably. I have one landlord with dozens of HMO's in one LA Area and they have prioritised works acording to a risk assessment and are upgrading the fire precautions over 5 years. The LA is happy with that plan.

Your regularisation issue is, remember, not strictly to do with it being a HMO but because you did work you ought to have got building regs consent for.

I don't blame you at all for reporting others who do not comply with the law. Landlords are the first to moan when tenants don't meet thier obligations.

How much this will effects rents will depend upon the market, but I cannot see the supply of residential accomodation to let being much diminished so I don't think there will be a significant effect on rents. However, I am a surveyor not a gambler so I think we will have to wait and see.

[Jonboy]

I thought we were getting robbed in newcastle at £1100 for a licence plus 25 for each room over 5! but i am not paying the prices for work listed below:eek:



I was told I would need an interlinked fire alarm system which could cost about £3500. how much???? i have just had one fitted to a 6 bedroom 3 storey property for about £1100 with detectors in every room!



I'd have to replace all doors with firedoors (that's 11 doors in my case, 3 doors which will could cost me £750, and 8 doors at £350 - price doesn't include fitting), how much???? you need to find a better supplier, i have just bought fire doors for about £20 each



I need to have a full electric safety inspection which cost approx £350 per year (or 2 years). how much???? someones having a laugh with you, i pay £70 for a periodic elec inspection and they are every 5 years! as i now have to do Pat testing aswell, i got my electrician to do them, he charges £35 per property

council here has been very helpful, but then that is probably because they want us to remember that when they are in a shambles over this whole thing and we are laughing/screaming at them to sort it out!

these licences are a p1ss take of the highest order, as will the tds be when that starts too

[suemoir]

I live in Sussex and rent out 2 houses in Eastbourne.I rang the council 9 months ago with concerns about the impending legislation. I could not get a straight answer from anyone as to how I could proceed to comply with the law. The end result was that they said just wait and see what happens. I attended a Landlord meeting at the end of last year(2005) where the council reps were giving a presentation on the new laws. What a shambles!! The speakers were completely out of their depth and had trouble stringing 2 words together, people walked out in disgust and suffice to say ,so did I.
I rang the council 3 times during the new year explaining I was deeply concerned they hadn't even published the application forms for HMO registration.I was told they weren't sure what the registration forms should include!. Finally the day before the legislation came in the forms appeared on the local council web.I again rang the council for advice to be told that the forms need not be submitted until early July! The cost is approx £750 per house for 5 tenants and goes up with each additional tenant.I have completed the forms but am waiting to submit them as I don't see why the council should bank my money until I have to pay it! I am dreading the process as no one I have spoken to seems to be competent enough to give me advice as to how the legislation will affect my properties. I am hoping common sense will prevail re the basin in each bedroom fiasco. watch this space!!
After completing the forms to a high standard and including every single certificate , corgi. electrical safety, etc. my local council at Eastbourne made appointments to inspect our 2 properties. Two local council officers attended. one a fire saety escape officer and one an environmental officer. They were very relaxed and helpful, which was a great relief.
Our properties are to a very high standard, clean, re-plumbed , rewired etc. they each have 5 bedrooms, all newly decorated and furnished beautifully.
The officers were highly impressed and due to the fact we have a dishwasher in the kitchen and a microwave as well as cooker, they waived the basin and bathroom criterias (5 to 1) stating they are hoping that within 5yrs the government with retract this silly regulation. the officers have stated we can have 6 people sharing in a 5 bed , 3 storey house with only one shower room and wc with basin! This was great news as the extra tenants income (we only have 5 tenants at the mo) will help pay for the other alterations they have ordered we do within 6 months. These are full electronic fire detectors with alarms and claxtons in each house (the break glass and press button type system used in hotels) fire doors on every room with intumiscent seals and locks that need no key from the inside to open to escape.
We have a number of small areas that we have to line with extra plaster board (under stairs cupboard etc) to add to the fire safety commitment.
On the whole we are very pleased with the outcome, the council are issuing the licences (around £750 per house for 6 people) on the proviso the fire safety work is completed within 6 months.
Yes its a pain spending more money (and I think it will run into the thousands) however, I would not sleep at night knowing the houses were not safe and I had not done my best re fire protection.
My husband and I have agreed we have choices
1. reduce tenants to 4 per house (not an option as no profit on this)
2.sell the houses, we'll not make any money and the last 2 yrs hard work would be lost
3. comply with the regs and treat as a long term investment and run as a proper business, not a half hearted effort where we have to lie and break the law and look over our shoulder all the time.
As you've probably guessed we have opted for number 3.
The most annoying thing is that we know at least ten other houses in the street that are breaking regs ina big way. one house has 7 people crammed in with no proper kitchen or washing facilities. When mentioned to the council they just shrug and say "well what can we do " we will try and enforce the regs but registration inspections come first, so more or less, if you stick your head up like us , you'll have to comply, if you break the rules you'll probably get away with it! annoying or what?

[jacamar]

I live in Scotland we have had hmo licences here for a few years, we do not require basins in the bedrooms, you better put the tenants in quickly as once you have applied for the licence and put up a letter in the window stating that you are applying for a licence the neighbours have 21 days in which to object,it just needs one to oject and you have then only allowed to put 2 people in until the licence goes to the licence board which could take up to a year which if you have an 11 bedroom house with 2 people in it to pay rent would be financially draining to say the least, but if the tenans ae already in before the objection they are allowed to stay until the case is heard, I am at present awaiting 3 hmo buildings going to the licencing panel, the reasons all the neighbours objected seems to be because they can. You would hardly believe by making your houses safe the neighbours is then allowed to object it is a disgrace that we law abiding landlords are being penalised

[red40]

I live in Scotland we have had hmo licences here for a few years, we do not require basins in the bedrooms, you better put the tenants in quickly as once you have applied for the licence and put up a letter in the window stating that you are applying for a licence the neighbours have 21 days in which to object

There is no such requirement in the Housing Act 2004 for England & Wales for the landlord to post a notice or inform any of the neighbours of his intention to licence a HMO. There are certain people who need to know and that info is in schedule 2 of SI373.
The requirements for WHB is part of a statutory instrument and therefore part of a licence condition....................at the moment.
The only people who can at present refuse a licence are the local authority, without hearing any objections.

[Grange]

Westminster. Superb house, lovely location.

We have a shared house with four rooms. One is reserved for the landlord who virtually never uses it.

The council has deemed one room too small for living in - it's 78 square feet, so under the 80 sq feet that is acceptable.

The two remaining rooms don't require a basin... they require a full 40 square feet KITCHEN. Moreover, this has been the case since 1999 when Westminster interpreted the 1985 and 1988 (iirc) Housing Acts in this fashion.

Letting a room in a shared house with a basin makes it feel like a prison... try a kitchen!

Oh yes, and as there are only two tenants and a landlord, the house does not require licensing. Just to comply...

[Westcot]

Just had inspection by Runneymede council (Surrey) on 6 bed licenceable house (2 floors + loft) and even more fire doors plus a full panel alarm (BS5839 Part 1) system required! Will have to strip out mains interlinked detectors that were considered fine 5 years ago.

Can anyone recommend a fire alarm company in Surrey / have any idea on likely costs?

Also, what timescales have others negotiated to complete such major works - is one year reasonable?

On washbasins, stated as required in every room but 5 years given to complete on basis that hopefully the requirement will be removed in time.