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mole
02-03-2006, 19:21 PM
do tennants have the right to an original tennancy agreement? i only have a photocopy of one. it says to turn overleaf for terms and conditions but it is just printed on one side and we only have one peice of paper.so therefore i dont know if i am breaking any of the terms and conditions because i dont know what they are.

Ericthelobster
02-03-2006, 19:59 PM
You certainly have the right to a complete version of the tenancy agreement (don't know whether original or not), and you clearly don't have a complete agreement, end of story.

Worldlife
03-03-2006, 01:49 AM
I'm not sure if it is legal or not but I've not trusted tenants with the original of the tenancy agreement - just in case they conveniently lose it!!!

The Housing Benefit Office however wanted to see the original agreement when our previous tenant became unemployed and sought benefit. There was no problem we just dropped the original into the Council office and they photocopied it and endorsed the photocopy they now had was a true copy of the original agreement.

davidjohnbutton
03-03-2006, 09:01 AM
I always get three originals signed by both tenant and myself.

One the tenant retains
One I retain
The third original goes in with the application for Housing Benefit if and when required.

The originals are marked Landlord. Tenant. HB office

Nora Kay
03-03-2006, 20:34 PM
DJB
Just a thought.
Is it legally possible to have 3 "originals"? The first AST agreement signed must be the original, and if 2 more are signed, they surely must be "copies" of the original. A copy doesn't have to be a photocopy. In Victorian times, every "copy" was handwritten.
Or am I just being pedantic???

justaboutsane
03-03-2006, 20:44 PM
We always have 2 copies of the AST.. one for the tenant and one for our records.. its never been a problem. If the tenant loses a copy I photocopy ours charge them £20!!!... Not really! the clause is in the AST but I don't usually implement it unless they lose it again!

davidjohnbutton
03-03-2006, 21:58 PM
Nora Kay - yes it is possible legally to have more than one original and housing benefit offices usually ask to see an original that has been signed rather than one that is photocopied.

The word copy can have at least two different meanings - in modern language we regard a copy as something photocopied whereas monks used to copy original writings to produce a further original which could if you like also be called a copy because it is copied off the original number one work.

I use this method because in the past I have found that even though HB offices were supplied with a photocopy - they demanded to see an original - by this time - possibly several weeks into the tenancy, the tenant has mislaid his copy/original/whatever you wanna call it. My solution was to ask on the tenancy application if HB was going to be applied for to help pay the rent, and then on acceptance of such a tenant, to help them fill in the HB application, provide a signed original agreement to go with it - take both sets home with me and run off a rent book and send all those into the HB office - it speeds up payment marvellously!

justaboutsane
04-03-2006, 07:11 AM
Just thinking back to my uni days! .. but I am sure there was a case where one of the parties was not able to see the T&C before they signed the contract... therefore making it invalid..... but you have paid the LL rent so that in itself forms a contract the terms being that of a stautory periodic I think .. Paul F please correct me!

Wellington
04-03-2006, 09:32 AM
A Tenant has the right to have a full Tenancy Agreement. If pages are printed on both sides, then a Tenant should have both sides of every sheet. If there are references to 'Terms and Conditions Overleaf' , then this section must be included, otherwise the Tenant can rightly claim that a contract was not 'perfectly form' and is therefore void.

Energise
04-03-2006, 09:52 AM
A Tenant has the right to have a full Tenancy Agreement.

If you mean a full tenancy agreement in writing then no they do not, but a landlord must provide basic terms of the agreement if it is requested

mole
04-03-2006, 11:30 AM
as the landlord rushed me into signing because he had someone from the bank coming to look at it.all my dealing with them has proved them to be immorral and unproffesional. especially to do with the agreement.
problems:
1) back dated agreement
2) wrong rent amount on it
3) repairs have not been done (after 2 years)
4) they come around on days i tell them not to
5) they provide no reciepts
6) they wont do things in writing only over the phone.

i am in the process of being evicted. i owe them no money,in fact by law they owe me but due to the no reciept i cannot get that back. i also do not have an inventory,should i be worried about getting my deposit back??

Ericthelobster
04-03-2006, 11:59 AM
i am in the process of being evicted. i owe them no money,in fact by law they owe me but due to the no reciept i cannot get that back. i also do not have an inventory,should i be worried about getting my deposit back??Regarding the inventory - read the current ongoing thread about what to do with no inventory in a very similar situation, it answers all your questions.

What are the circumstances of the LL owing you money with no receipt? Don't just write that off - given that you have a totally cavalier, unprofessional LL it's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility that a judge could award you the money if you were to take the LL to the small claims court.

mole
04-03-2006, 12:37 PM
well our landlord was asking 450 per month when i moved in 2 years ago.we had no tenancy agreement.then in oct last year after months of repair issues he asked us to sign a tenancy agreement so he could get the mortgage changed and he could not do this without it.
the agreement stated the amount of housing benifit we recieved 398.88, but he still insisted that we paid the 450. For one month we did pay until we sought legal advice.the agreement was also backdated by 2 months which means that we paid him 450 for three months when the rent was 398.88.this is why he owes us money,but unfortunatley due to no reciepts we cannot prove it.

justaboutsane
04-03-2006, 13:54 PM
well our landlord was asking 450 per month when i moved in 2 years ago.we had no tenancy agreement.then in oct last year after months of repair issues he asked us to sign a tenancy agreement so he could get the mortgage changed and he could not do this without it.
the agreement stated the amount of housing benifit we recieved 398.88, but he still insisted that we paid the 450. For one month we did pay until we sought legal advice.the agreement was also backdated by 2 months which means that we paid him 450 for three months when the rent was 398.88.this is why he owes us money,but unfortunatley due to no reciepts we cannot prove it.


If the rent is £450 then that is what you should pay.... Just because HB only pay £398.88 does not mean you do not owe the balance. Whatever the difference is between the rent and the HB you should pay.

mole
04-03-2006, 15:05 PM
i said that the tennancy agreement states the rent is 398.88!!!! but he is asking for 450.solicitor agrees with me

Ericthelobster
04-03-2006, 15:41 PM
I suppose you paid in cash!? :(
If you paid by cheque, there will at least be an indisputable paper-trail proving he was paid the money...

mole
04-03-2006, 20:20 PM
unfortunatley ,yes i did pay in cash