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chowce1982
01-04-2009, 14:51 PM
we have a clause in our contract which states:

(Within the last two months of the tenancy) to permit the landlord or any person authorised by the landlord...at reasonable hours in the daytime to enter and view the property with the prospective tenants or purchasers, having first given the tenant a reasonable period of notice'

We have asked for 24hrs notice and said that people can look around the property from 9am-2pm each day as this is when my wife is there. Is this reasonable?

We do not want people looking around when we arent there. My LL said that all viewings have to be when the prospective tenants want them and that 'I therefore excersize the right to allow prospective tenants around my property, in accordance with the contract.'

Are we being reasonable by saying that people can come to look every day from 9-2 and is 24hrs reasonable notice?

SALL
01-04-2009, 15:05 PM
we have a clause in our contract which states:

(Within the last two months of the tenancy) to permit the landlord or any person authorised by the landlord...at reasonable hours in the daytime to enter and view the property with the prospective tenants or purchasers, having first given the tenant a reasonable period of notice'

We have asked for 24hrs notice and said that people can look around the property from 9am-2pm each day as this is when my wife is there. Is this reasonable?

We do not want people looking around when we arent there. My LL said that all viewings have to be when the prospective tenants want them and that 'I therefore excersize the right to allow prospective tenants around my property, in accordance with the contract.'

Are we being reasonable by saying that people can come to look every day from 9-2 and is 24hrs reasonable notice?


You are being reasonable.

Tell your LL that all viewings are only to be done within the time specified by you. Otherwise you will refuse to allow any viewings and legally there is nothing the LL can do about it.

Lawcruncher
01-04-2009, 16:32 PM
legally there is nothing the LL can do about it.

Rather: legally there is not a lot the landlord can do about it without going to court.

My3kids
01-04-2009, 17:39 PM
24 houirs notice is reasonable but 9-2? come on, that is a little restricted don't you think?

islandgirl
01-04-2009, 17:48 PM
No not at all. They do not have to allow ANY viewings if they do not wish. If prospective buyers are working they can come at the weekend. The LL is lucky they are allowing viewings at all (and I speak as a LL!)

SALL
02-04-2009, 07:53 AM
Rather: legally there is not a lot the landlord can do about it without going to court.

If LL does go to court over this issue, would there be a possibility of enforcing such a term?

SALL
02-04-2009, 07:56 AM
24 houirs notice is reasonable but 9-2? come on, that is a little restricted don't you think?

Yeah I suppose the hours are a bit restrictive, lot of people work 9-5 and it would be impossible for them to view it in these times.

Maybe OP can also allow 2 hours in the evenings too.

Mars Mug
02-04-2009, 08:07 AM
lot of people work 9-5 and it would be impossible for them to view it in these times.

No more impossible than a dentist or doctors appointment, how about lunchtimes?

I guess the OP also works those hours and would not be too keen to have their evenings disrupted by prospective tenants for possibly the next couple of months.

islandgirl
02-04-2009, 08:13 AM
Hello....OP does not exclude Sat and Sun - it is ENTIRELY reasonable and he does not have to allow viewings at all. I would not be so generous. I would give Fridays 10-2 and Sundays 10-2 or something similar (if I were feeling generous, that is)

Mars Mug
02-04-2009, 08:28 AM
I agree, though it is a matter of opinion. The offer is for five hours viewing during daylight hours per day from a paying tenant to allow possible tenants to view.

chowce1982
02-04-2009, 08:33 AM
We were happy to allow people to look round during the evening it just really got under my nose when the LL said:

'Viewings must be held at the prospective tenants convenience, not yours. I therefore excersize my right to allow prospective tenants around my property'

I said that 9-2 every day would give people time to look around as they could come at the weekend too. Our contract also stated that people should be allowed to look around 'at reasonable hours in the daytime'. These hours struck me as being reasonable. He is now saying that he will us give us 24 notice and that people will come round whether it is convenient to us or not or whether we agree to it or not. He has given keys to the EAs and said that they will let themselves in. After all, it is 'my property, not yours, you're just renting it'. I have a good mind to take him to court for trespass if he or the EAs enter without permission. I'm normally pretty relaxed about this sort of thing and try help but it does bug me when I'm paying to live somewhere and I have no choice as to when people walk in and out of my home, especially when we live in a dodgy area.

SALL
02-04-2009, 08:36 AM
No more impossible than a dentist or doctors appointment, how about lunchtimes?



Tell me about that, only NHS services can get away with those times.

Mars Mug
02-04-2009, 08:36 AM
You could just change the locks, and then change them back when you leave. The cost to the landlord for breaking in could be pretty high.

Lawcruncher
02-04-2009, 08:44 AM
If LL does go to court over this issue, would there be a possibility of enforcing such a term?

I think there has to be. I discussed this at some length in another thread, but cannot seem to find it. Leaving aside the reasons a landlord may want to enter, statute does give landlords the right to enter for certain purposes. It would be a nonsense for statute to give rights that cannot be enforced in any circumstances.

In practice no sensible landlord is going to apply for a court order to allow prosepctive tenants to inspect, because by the time he got the order the tenant will probably have gone.

The problem is the peremptory attitude taken by landlords and agents and the failure to realise that they are dealing with someone's home. A polite request as to when it would be convenient to call is far more likely to produce a result than telling the tenant when you are coming and if he does not like it he has to put up with it.

As for tenants, it cannot be the case that it will never be convenient. Let's face it, if the central heating breaks down in the middle of January a tenant will soon come to an arrangement.

islandgirl
02-04-2009, 08:44 AM
I am afraid I would lose patience and write to the LL immediately withdrawing my cooperation due to his attitude and refusing to allow visits. It is not "his house". Whilst you are in it is is "yours". I also think I would be tempted to change the locks.

Mars Mug
02-04-2009, 09:18 AM
I think there has to be. I discussed this at some length in another thread, but cannot seem to find it. Leaving aside the reasons a landlord may want to enter, statute does give landlords the right to enter for certain purposes. It would be a nonsense for statute to give rights that cannot be enforced in any circumstances.

Access is not being denied, just not any time of day access, and in an emergency situation the landlord can still enter. So if the landlord went to court over this, is there a realistic prospect that the court would side with the landlord? What about 'quiet enjoyment'?

davidjohnbutton
02-04-2009, 09:19 AM
Putting aside the practicalities - I am just wondering if there is any precedents having been set where a landlord has sued his tenant for the tenant failing or refusing to let prospective buyers or tenants view in accordance with the agreement which the tenant signed and accepted.

I cannot see that a clause agreeing that the tenant allow prospective tenants or buyers to view at reasonable times and with reasonable notice would be an unfair contract term. So, assuming that such a term is enforcable against the tenant, what are the chances of successfully suing the tenant for a sum of money for the breach of contract if the tenant either sets down an unreasonable restricted viewing "window" or refuses to allow access at all? What would quantum be in these circumstances - how would it be measured?

One for you I think Jeffrey?????

Lawcruncher
02-04-2009, 18:09 PM
Access is not being denied, just not any time of day access, and in an emergency situation the landlord can still enter. So if the landlord went to court over this, is there a realistic prospect that the court would side with the landlord? What about 'quiet enjoyment'?

I certainly do not think that a landlord can go to court because a tenant refuses access at a time specified by the landlord. For a landlord to succeed in court I suggest that he would have to show that he had made repeated requests for access that have been refused; that the tenant had not proposed reasonable times for an appointment after being requested to do so; that there is an obligation on the tenant to allow access for the purpose the landlord requires access; that the reason for access is reasonable.

The tenant's right to quiet enjoyment is not absolute. A landlord who has the benefit of an obligation by the tenant to allow access is entitled to take reasonable steps to preserve his property. Good estate management is in the interest of both landlord and tenant.

In short, a landlord may only enter with consent, but there comes a point when the tenant must give his consent.

chowce1982
02-04-2009, 19:25 PM
Quick update for you all.

I received a call today from the estate agents at 5pm asking if they could view at 5.30. I reminded them (again) that we had arranged viewing hours between 9 and 2 each day and would need 24 hours notice. The EA said that it was no problem and that they would come back another time.

Two weeks ago I got the keys to the property cut at Timpsons and wrote on the free key ring the name of the estate agents and the house number in permanent marker. I got back home today after work and found this keyring lying in the middle of the living room floor. No-one else from that agency had been in that day and I haven't marked any of the other key rings with those marks.

I now pretty annoyed as these people know exactly when the viewing times are and they have obviously been in. What shall I now do?

Mars Mug
02-04-2009, 20:16 PM
In short, a landlord may only enter with consent, but there comes a point when the tenant must give his consent.

And I would consider 09:00 until 14:00 every day of the week adequate consent for the purpose of viewing.

Chowce1982, if you don't want to change locks, then get one of these, should be a nice surprise for unwanted visitors, they are ear piercingly loud and only cost £10. Tell them before hand that you now have an alarm fitted, what can they do about that?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?moduleno=30579

http://images.maplin.co.uk/300/qs39.jpg