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View Full Version : LZ Lodger Application form- is it too intrusive?



Richard J.
20-03-2009, 16:11 PM
A client of mine forward me the Lodger Application from this site for comment.

Here is my advice:-

Dear XXXX,

I have reviewed the document that your proposed landlord wishes you to complete. I cannot advise you to provide this information; even as a firm of solicitors we only require 2 items to conform with the law society's anti money laundering requirements.

To be frank this document reads like one of those phishing e-mails on the internet. There is enough information contained in this document to allow an unscrupulous individual to clone your identity. I cannot think of any legitimate organisation which would require level of background information from a tenant let alone a lodger.

Regards,

Etc.

I cannot beleive that this document was drafted in such a manner in this age of identity theft.

Poppy
20-03-2009, 16:18 PM
Are you a solicitor? What particularly do you object to?

mind the gap
20-03-2009, 16:24 PM
Not a solicitor surely, or he would punctuate 'Law Society' and spell 'believe' correctly?

Richard J.
20-03-2009, 16:26 PM
Are you a solicitor? What particularly do you object to?

I am a property lawyer; and I object to the whole document. It is more information than is required for obtaining a mortgage, intruding into the tenants personal life to a massive extent.

Whilst I appreciate that a landlord would which to know something about a lodger/tenant but that is ridiculous.

Regards,

Richard

Richard J.
20-03-2009, 16:28 PM
Not a solicitor surely, or he would punctuate 'Law Society' and spell 'believe' correctly?

LOL - actually I very rarely type, so [I] (sic) apologise for my ineptitude

Poppy
20-03-2009, 16:37 PM
The whole document! Wot - landlords can't know a prospective lodger's name? The LLZ form is lightweight, I also ask for their shoe size and IQ. In addition to the form my nose answers a few more questions. :p

Note to moderator: can we please have a smilie with an index finger tapping the side of a nose.

mind the gap
20-03-2009, 16:41 PM
LOL - actually I very rarely type, so [I] (sic) apologise for my ineptitude


You don't have to type. There is a 'Quill and Quink' function on LLZ, you know. We even have little Dickensian-type people who will bring virtual coals to your office fire.

arsebook
20-03-2009, 16:45 PM
No tenant should ever sign this

Why would a tenant be signing a lodger application form?

mind the gap
20-03-2009, 16:47 PM
Why would a tenant be signing a lodger application form?


He wouldn't. The distinction between the two is made several times - see #1for example: I cannot think of any legitimate organisation which would require level of background information from a tenant let alone a lodger.

Richard J.
20-03-2009, 17:14 PM
Why would a tenant be signing a lodger application form?

I use the term 'tenant' in its broader context.

Preston
20-03-2009, 18:06 PM
Hi

For some reason, I cant download this form. Can someone post the wording?

Preston

mind the gap
20-03-2009, 18:13 PM
Hi

For some reason, I cant download this form. Can someone post the wording?

Preston

I can't even enter my email address and password - it keeps pretending I've forgotten my details. Is that what you meant?

Preston
20-03-2009, 18:47 PM
I can't even enter my email address and password - it keeps pretending I've forgotten my details. Is that what you meant?

Yep, just the same for me. Perhaps its been overcome by the rush of people wanting to check out the wording?

mind the gap
20-03-2009, 18:48 PM
Yep, just the same for me. Perhaps its been overcome by the rush of people wanting to check out the wording?

What a sad bunch we all are on a Friday night!

Preston
20-03-2009, 18:54 PM
What a sad bunch we all are on a Friday night!

A tinny, newspaper, Corrie .... whats sad about that? (!)

RJ01
21-03-2009, 07:33 AM
I've had a look this morning and that is the minimum I would want to know before letting this person live in my house!

Ericthelobster
21-03-2009, 11:51 AM
Yep, just the same for me. Perhaps its been overcome by the rush of people wanting to check out the wording?Me too, this morning. Difficult to comment sensibly without seeing exactly what info's being requested, but personally I would be wanting a lot of info on an individual I didn't know and who I was considering having live with me in my own home. Probably more so than for a tenant in a separate property and conceivably more so than if I were a lender offering them a mortgage.

Rodent1
21-03-2009, 13:46 PM
I can't get to see it either, but completely agree, if moving into my home with me then I would want to know a lot more than if it was a T.

soon2retire
21-03-2009, 16:02 PM
I downloaded it several days ago.
Page 1 is
1. Lodgers Name and Address etc.
2. Identification - Lodger should supply two of the following: i) NI number; ii) Passport No. iii) Driver Licence No; iv) Date of Birth (Birth Cert.)

3. Previous addresses - 1 and 2.
4. Answer questions YES or NO: Smoker? - Evictions?; -Convictions?; - Bankruptcy?
5. Contact name and address for emergencies.
6. Work History: where, when, who and phone No. (Last two employers)

Page 2 continues:
7. Gross Annual Earnings: Bank A/C Name, address, A/C Number, sort code.
8. For References, name and address of two persons.
9. Details of vehicles to be kept at property.
10. Several other things which do not disclose applicant's details.
11. Final paragraph before signature and date:
"I can confirm I have read the above and raised any concerns with the landlord or
agent and that to the best of my knowledge and belief all the information supplied here and attached is correct in every detail. I understand that the landlord or agent may carry out credit and reference checks in strictest confidence and in full compliance with the principles of the Data Protection Act 1988."

If an applicant does not want to answer the above in full, then I am quite happy NOT to have him / her as a lodger in MY house.

Preston
21-03-2009, 18:47 PM
I downloaded it several days ago.
Page 1 is
1. Lodgers Name and Address etc.
2. Identification - Lodger should supply two of the following: i) NI number; ii) Passport No. iii) Driver Licence No; iv) Date of Birth (Birth Cert.)

3. Previous addresses - 1 and 2.
4. Answer questions YES or NO: Smoker? - Evictions?; -Convictions?; - Bankruptcy?
5. Contact name and address for emergencies.
6. Work History: where, when, who and phone No. (Last two employers)

Page 2 continues:
7. Gross Annual Earnings: Bank A/C Name, address, A/C Number, sort code.
8. For References, name and address of two persons.
9. Details of vehicles to be kept at property.
10. Several other things which do not disclose applicant's details.
11. Final paragraph before signature and date:
"I can confirm I have read the above and raised any concerns with the landlord or
agent and that to the best of my knowledge and belief all the information supplied here and attached is correct in every detail. I understand that the landlord or agent may carry out credit and reference checks in strictest confidence and in full compliance with the principles of the Data Protection Act 1988."

If an applicant does not want to answer the above in full, then I am quite happy NOT to have him / her as a lodger in MY house.

Hi

Thanks very much for posting this. I am still unable to download the document, so I hope the site administrators will pick up on the difficulties that I and other users are having in this respect.

On the substantive issue, namely Richard J's comment to the effect that the level of information required is excessive, I respect his view, but my guess is that rented accommodation, either in the public or private sectors, is not his core business. The amount of information requested on the form in question is, in my view, neither excessive nor unusual. He is, of course, perfectly entitled to advise his clients not to provide the information. In doing so, however, he will I think be reducing their options substantially and ironically, I think he may well end up steering them away from the better quality and more experienced landlords towards less reputable ones.

Like others, I would be interested to know precisely whiich pieces of information he objects to or, alternatively, what level of information he would regard as reasonable or usual, in this particular sector.

Interesting debate.

Preston

Paragon
21-03-2009, 19:47 PM
I find it a bit lax. I would normally want to see the passport or driver's license -- not just have the number. Seems fairly basic in total.

starlettings
21-03-2009, 20:30 PM
A client of mine forward me the Lodger Application from this site for comment.

Here is my advice:-

Dear XXXX,

I have reviewed the document that your proposed landlord wishes you to complete. I cannot advise you to provide this information; even as a firm of solicitors we only require 2 items to conform with the law society's anti money laundering requirements.

To be frank this document reads like one of those phishing e-mails on the internet. There is enough information contained in this document to allow an unscrupulous individual to clone your identity. I cannot think of any legitimate organisation which would require level of background information from a tenant let alone a lodger.

Regards,

Etc.

I cannot beleive that this document was drafted in such a manner in this age of identity theft.


Are you mad....????????
I look at it as if the new POTENTIAL T is asking me for a TEN GRAND loan.....

I hope you let some places out one day and ask no questions... GOOD LUCK.

Ive even done a HPI check on a applicants car!!!!!

nick..
21-03-2009, 20:34 PM
Are you mad....????????
I look at it as if the new POTENTIAL T is asking me for a TEN GRAND loan.....


Ha, hilarious. Just how egotistical can you get? It's an agreement between the pair of you, and at the rate you lot are going bust these days, you should be grateful there isn't compulsory credit checking/mortgage validation of landlords

With rental properties outnumbering tenants these days, don't be surprised to see a swing of power towards tenants, especially with numpties on owner occupier mortgages getting reposessed and the tenant getting kicked out with no notice

If I was presented with either the form on this site asking for NI/Passport numbers etc or you wanted to do a HPI check on my car, I don't think I'd stop laughing until I'd made it to the next viewing, where hopefully I'd meet a proper landlord

Tankgirl
21-03-2009, 20:52 PM
Ha, hilarious. Just how egotistical can you get? It's an agreement between the pair of you, and at the rate you lot are going bust these days, you should be grateful there isn't compulsory credit checking/mortgage validation of landlords

With rental properties outnumbering tenants these days, don't be surprised to see a swing of power towards tenants, especially with numpties on owner occupier mortgages getting reposessed and the tenant getting kicked out with no notice

If I was presented with either the form on this site asking for NI/Passport numbers etc or you wanted to do a HPI check on my car, I don't think I'd stop laughing until I'd made it to the next viewing, where hopefully I'd meet a proper landlord

AMEN! Well said, sir!

Preston
21-03-2009, 20:58 PM
If I was presented with either the form on this site asking for NI/Passport numbers etc or you wanted to do a HPI check on my car, I don't think I'd stop laughing until I'd made it to the next viewing, where hopefully I'd meet a proper landlord

Well, thats an interesting point of view, but I do wonder whether most applicants will be more influenced by the price of the accommodation, its quality and location, than the need to provide the type of information you have referred to.

Put it another way, I have just applied for a new mortgage on the home I live in and have had to supply a copy of utility bills and my passport, to prove that I am who I say I am; at work, I have had to supply a copy of my car insurance details and photographic drivers licence in order to claim a mileage allowance; in order to buy a car, I have had to supply two forms of identity (I chose to use passport and drivers licence); I bought some furniture on line and had to provide card number, security code, valid from date, etc.

In other words, we all have to give details to prove who we are, all the time. The real issue is making sure that we only give this information to individuals or organisations we trust. This means that we should check, very carefully, the bona fides of the people we are dealing with. But it simply isn't practical to hope that we can avoid giving the information necessary to prove our own identity.

Preston

nick..
21-03-2009, 21:00 PM
I have just applied for a new mortgage on the home I live in

That's because you're borrowing (probably) a hundred grand or so :rolleyes: it's just a tiny bit different to signing a 6 month tenancy agreement

I know you've probably been used to having mortgages thrown at you, but those days are gone, and providing mountains of information to secure hundreds of thousands of pounds of someones money is not a new thing. Well certainly not new to anyone who bought a house prior to the last 10 years of easy credit

Of course the landlord needs to know who they are dealing with, but there is a big difference between this and what that form is requiring someone to provide

Preston
21-03-2009, 21:20 PM
That's because you're borrowing (probably) a hundred grand or so :rolleyes: it's just a tiny bit different to signing a 6 month tenancy agreement

I know you've probably been used to having mortgages thrown at you, but those days are gone, and providing mountains of information to secure hundreds of thousands of pounds of someones money is not a new thing. Well certainly not new to anyone who bought a house prior to the last 10 years of easy credit

Of course the landlord needs to know who they are dealing with, but there is a big difference between this and what that form is requiring someone to provide

Well, I think most landlords (and tenants for that matter) might regard giving possession of a property to someone else as fairly significant, even it if is only for six months in the first instance. At least as significant as, say, buying or selling an average car.

You imply that there is a "big difference" between what the form asks and what is reasonable. What do you think would be reasonable?

Preston

nick..
21-03-2009, 21:27 PM
Well, I think most landlords (and tenants for that matter) might regard giving possession of a property to someone else as fairly significant, even it if is only for six months in the first instance. At least as significant as, say, buying or selling an average car.

You imply that there is a "big difference" between what the form asks and what is reasonable. What do you think would be reasonable?

Preston

No, I said there is a big difference between buying a house and renting a house for 6 months, that's the comparison you were making in terms of paperwork

As to what I deem acceptable, I would say previous references and a credit check with some form of photo ID shown to the landlord or letting agent to prove you are who you say you are

And in return, there should be some proof from the landlord that they are on an appropriate mortgage product that affords the tenant some protection if the landlord were to become reposessed

Preston
21-03-2009, 21:42 PM
No, I said there is a big difference between buying a house and renting a house for 6 months, that's the comparison you were making in terms of paperwork

Yes, I know what you mean, but they are the same thing. Granting a tenancy to someone else means giving exclusive possession to them for the period of the tenancy. Its not the norm, but tenants can sometimes incur huge costs for their landlords by, for example, building up arrears or by damaging the property.


As to what I deem acceptable, I would say previous references and a credit check with some form of photo ID shown to the landlord or letting agent to prove you are who you say you are

Personally, I would be quite happy with a photo ID from, say, an employer. Not everyone can supply one though, so sometimes a NI number or passport is easier.


And in return, there should be some proof from the landlord that they are on an appropriate mortgage product that affords the tenant some protection if the landlord were to become reposessed

In most circumstances the tenant has the same level of security with a mortgagee in possession as they had with their "original" landlord. In other words, when the initial fixed period of the AST has ended, the landlord can apply for possession.

Preston

starlettings
21-03-2009, 22:24 PM
You lot are all nuts!!! I think all the ID etc is needed....maybe if this happens to you your stupid stance will change.....

Nice car, flash suit.....yeah great....Pay 6 months rent in advance


What do you call that?

SKUNK FARM......

Now thats really about £3000 to replace the walls they took out, £5000 for a new kitchen £2000 to get manweb to fit a new meter with a bond, £2000 to fill and paint the holes in the ceiling where they put 12" Ducting in the loft, £500 to remove the 75 x 25Ltr bags of compost in the living room, £300 to remove the false 2nd door so the neighbours cant see through the door, £1000 for a new boiler, 2 Months loss of rent £1000....oh £400 for a new front door cos the Police didnt wait for me to unlock the door during the raid!!!

Yeah who needs id checks etc.....only a 6 month ast....what could go wrong......oh and when the police say....This £50 grand a crop skunk farm ...is it yours???? and you say....errm some tit on LANDLORD ZONE said just let them in no id...errrmm its not mine officer

Krispy
22-03-2009, 09:47 AM
You lot are all nuts!!! I think all the ID etc is needed....maybe if this happens to you your stupid stance will change.....

Nice car, flash suit.....yeah great....Pay 6 months rent in advance


What do you call that?

SKUNK FARM......

Now thats really about £3000 to replace the walls they took out, £5000 for a new kitchen £2000 to get manweb to fit a new meter with a bond, £2000 to fill and paint the holes in the ceiling where they put 12" Ducting in the loft, £500 to remove the 75 x 25Ltr bags of compost in the living room, £300 to remove the false 2nd door so the neighbours cant see through the door, £1000 for a new boiler, 2 Months loss of rent £1000....oh £400 for a new front door cos the Police didnt wait for me to unlock the door during the raid!!!

Yeah who needs id checks etc.....only a 6 month ast....what could go wrong......oh and when the police say....This £50 grand a crop skunk farm ...is it yours???? and you say....errm some tit on LANDLORD ZONE said just let them in no id...errrmm its not mine officer

How would a lodger manage to do all that?

Why would you offer an AST to a lodger?

"Starlettings" some kind of irony?

Paragon
22-03-2009, 10:33 AM
Ha, hilarious. Just how egotistical can you get? It's an agreement between the pair of you, and at the rate you lot are going bust these days, you should be grateful there isn't compulsory credit checking/mortgage validation of landlords

With rental properties outnumbering tenants these days, don't be surprised to see a swing of power towards tenants, especially with numpties on owner occupier mortgages getting reposessed and the tenant getting kicked out with no notice

If I was presented with either the form on this site asking for NI/Passport numbers etc or you wanted to do a HPI check on my car, I don't think I'd stop laughing until I'd made it to the next viewing, where hopefully I'd meet a proper landlord


LOL - I guess when you live under the embankment tube station, you never have to show your passport.

Poppy
22-03-2009, 10:42 AM
And in return, there should be some proof from the landlord that they are on an appropriate mortgage product that affords the tenant some protection if the landlord were to become reposessed
How does that prevent a tenant being evicted where the landlord/borrower is in default regardless of the mortgage type? Do you think a tenant gains additional rights somehow?

Rodent1
22-03-2009, 12:25 PM
I downloaded it several days ago.
Page 1 is
1. Lodgers Name and Address etc.
2. Identification - Lodger should supply two of the following: i) NI number; ii) Passport No. iii) Driver Licence No; iv) Date of Birth (Birth Cert.)

I require either passport or photo d/l which i photo copy for file.
Nothing unreasonable here.


3. Previous addresses - 1 and 2.

If less than 3 yrs at address, then perfectly acceptable to facilitate credit check / electoral register check


4. Answer questions YES or NO: Smoker? - Evictions?; -Convictions?; - Bankruptcy?

My props are non smoking; HMO's as legal requirement, the others by choice.
Evictions - yes i would like to know if any and why as this is a factor in risk assessment
Convictions - if proposing to share my home with me then YES i would screen out child molesters/arsonists/thugs theives etc
Bankcrupty - part of credit check



5. Contact name and address for emergencies.

Of course - why wouldn't anyone want to give this ....I have had a death in one of my props.



6. Work History: where, when, who and phone No. (Last two employers)

3 yrs history sufficient - std request.



Page 2 continues:
7. Gross Annual Earnings: Bank A/C Name, address, A/C Number, sort code.

Std request of all my reference forms.
Earnings required to assess pot T affordabilty.



8. For References, name and address of two persons

Prev LL / employer will suffice.



9. Details of vehicles to be kept at property.

Nothing unreasonable here, unless a LL has no objection to the risk of a 52 seater or juggernaut beng parked up outside every night!



10. Several other things which do not disclose applicant's details.

?????


11. Final paragraph before signature and date:
"I can confirm I have read the above and raised any concerns with the landlord or
agent and that to the best of my knowledge and belief all the information supplied here and attached is correct in every detail. I understand that the landlord or agent may carry out credit and reference checks in strictest confidence and in full compliance with the principles of the Data Protection Act 1988."

Would change this to read "LL WILL carry out credit....etc.....and I give my full permission for LL to do so"


If an applicant does not want to answer the above in full, then I am quite happy NOT to have him / her as a lodger in MY house.

Would change this to "Partially completed forms will not be accepted"


I also ask fo NI no, address, home, work & mob no's for next of kin, an alternative address (for dep pro - as std)

Exactly what has anyone got an objection to ?

But I would not have a lodger regardless:eek:

agent46
22-03-2009, 12:28 PM
FWIW, if i were allowing a lodger into my house, I would want to know a LOT more about them than if I were granting them a tenancy of a separate property.

The latter is a mere commercial transaction and only money is at stake, whereas the former situation involves inviting a complete stranger into my home, which, potentially, puts my peace of mind, privacy, treasured personal possessions and personal safety in jeopardy.

Rodent1
22-03-2009, 12:33 PM
Ha, hilarious. Just how egotistical can you get? It's an agreement between the pair of you, and at the rate you lot are going bust these days, you should be grateful there isn't compulsory credit checking/mortgage validation of landlords

With rental properties outnumbering tenants these days, don't be surprised to see a swing of power towards tenants, especially with numpties on owner occupier mortgages getting reposessed and the tenant getting kicked out with no notice

If I was presented with either the form on this site asking for NI/Passport numbers etc or you wanted to do a HPI check on my car, I don't think I'd stop laughing until I'd made it to the next viewing, where hopefully I'd meet a proper landlord

You would be having a long laugh, as it will take some time to find "proper LL" who just asks for your name and a fistfull of cash ...if that's what you want, be prepared for all aspects of "tenancy" to be equally as un professional as well ..including eviction.

Rodent1
22-03-2009, 12:34 PM
FWIW, if i were allowing a lodger into my house, I would want to know a LOT more about them than if I were granting them a tenancy of a separate property.

The latter is a mere commercial transaction and only money is at stake, whereas the former situation involves inviting a complete stranger into my home, which, potentially, puts my peace of mind, privacy, treasured personal possessions and personal safety in jeopardy.


At last we agree on something 100% :)

Richard J.
23-03-2009, 09:36 AM
I think that the important thing to remember is this is a form that can be downloaded by anyone. Whilst (one hopes) the majority of landlords here would not use this form for anything other than vetting their tenants/lodgers to problem occurs when the extent of this information falls into the hands of less than honest individuals.

The LandlordZONE branding gives a false sense of legitimacy (false in the sense that there is no legal requirement for a tenant/lodger to provide such information) that could easily make the unwary release information that could not be released.

I will give you a scenario:-

Lodger completes the information form

Landlord falls on hard times (not unlikely in this market)

Landlord sells the lodgers details

Lodger's identy is cloned

If this information was provided to a professional body or firm of lawyers I would still have an issue that the information is excessive, but at least the tenant and lodger would have some protection. But giving this information to another member of the public is nonsensical.

Ask the police or your bank if it is sensible to release all this information to another member of the public... I wonder what their advice would be?

MaryQK
23-03-2009, 10:24 AM
Richard J - if you believe this is excessive what would YOU suggest would be sufficient for a landlord to request for a potential lodger or tenant - a stranger.

Rodent1
23-03-2009, 11:12 AM
But giving this information to another member of the public is nonsensical.

Ask the police or your bank if it is sensible to release all this information to another member of the public...



To write this information on to a sheet of paper, then produce flyers to hand out in the street, to "members of the pubic" ,would be a tad silly...

You are completely ingoring the fact that the person requesting the info has the capacity of "landlord" which overrides "a member of the public" due to all the reasons stated above....

Please state, as requested in earlier post, which particular questions you find objectionable ?

Richard J.
23-03-2009, 11:51 AM
To write his information on to a sheet of paper and poduce flyers to hand out in the street to "members of the pubic" would be a tad silly...

You are completely ingoring the fact that the person requesting the info has the capacity of "landlord" which overrides "a member of the public due to all the reasons stated above....

Please state, as requested in earlier post, which particular questions you find objectionable ?

Just because you are a landlord does not mean that you are not a member of the public. Accordingly, giving the information we are discussing amounts to giving it to a member of the public.

In real terms you simply need previous landlord's reference, a bank reference confirming that the tenant can afford the monthly rent, a copy of one form of photo identification and a copy of a utility bill from their current address. In addition to this information you keep a deposit and receive rent in advance.

In addition to the information provided by the tenant there are a number of companies that provide information on prospective tenants, and I would expect a landlord to utilise these and public records to satisify themselves.

Accordingly, I would state that you do not need their bank details, their employment details, their birth certifcate or their national insurance number.

jeffrey
23-03-2009, 12:11 PM
L certainly needs:
a. T's Bank details (for Standing Order); and
b. T's employment details (reference, evidencing income as ability to pay rent).

Richard J.
23-03-2009, 12:31 PM
L certainly needs:
a. T's Bank details (for Standing Order); and
b. T's employment details (reference, evidencing income as ability to pay rent).

a. Actually Bank Standing Orders are set up by the tenant and they will need the Landlord's bank details (who if they are sensible will have a separate account to their personal accounts).

b. An employer's reference in my view is interchangeable with a bank reference and most certainly would not include the information requested in the lodger application but merely confirms employment and ablity to pay a stated rent.

jeffrey
23-03-2009, 13:42 PM
a. Actually Bank Standing Orders are set up by the tenant and they will need the Landlord's bank details (who if they are sensible will have a separate account to their personal accounts).

b. An employer's reference in my view is interchangeable with a bank reference and most certainly would not include the information requested in the lodger application but merely confirms employment and ablity to pay a stated rent.
a. L may want to verify that T has an S.O.-friendly account. If T never supplies details, how will L know that there is an account?
b. No. The aim is not an employer's reference but that T proves employment status. A banker's reference, on the other hand, is rarely worth even the paper on whcih it is written!

agent46
23-03-2009, 13:45 PM
A banker's reference, on the other hand, is rarely worth even the papaer on whcih it is written!

Rather like the rest of the paper issued by the banks these days, what with the fall in the pound, quantative easing and all that...

Rodent1
23-03-2009, 17:48 PM
Re employment reference:

If T is taking out an AST for 6 mths then i need to know that prospective T has a permanent contract of employment for at least this term, also i need to know what their income is to verify affordability, I also require outstanding loans/ credit card amounts, overdrafts etc so that this affordability can be assessed responsibly.

Any one not prepared to provide relevant info can, of course, withold....and go and rent somewhere else ....

Using the above has meant that people DO refuse to provide such info, but generally because of a stinking credit history or has lied about job/income etc .....To them I say thank you, for "taking a walk" ......

I do use a tenant ref agency who utilise all of this information but the info is passed to me to forward to them on a preprinted form.

Any infomation given to an organisation of any description means that "a member of the public" has access to it in the capicity of an "employee", so ...no-one is safe :eek:

mind the gap
23-03-2009, 17:51 PM
Re employment reference:

If T is taking out an AST for 6 mths then i need to know that prospective T has a permanent contract of employment for at least this term

I think very few employers will be willing to commit themselves to that, in the current economic climate.

Rodent1
23-03-2009, 17:59 PM
I think very few employers will be willing to commit themselves to that, in the current economic climate.

The point is that employment staus needs to be ascertained.

A person working for an agency genarally has a secure job until 5pm that day, hopefully they will be offered more work the next day, this very much fails my referencing criteria!

Atho a G or payment up front for term are safety nets if i choose to offer them.

Preston
23-03-2009, 20:58 PM
Just because you are a landlord does not mean that you are not a member of the public. Accordingly, giving the information we are discussing amounts to giving it to a member of the public.

In real terms you simply need previous landlord's reference, a bank reference confirming that the tenant can afford the monthly rent, a copy of one form of photo identification and a copy of a utility bill from their current address. In addition to this information you keep a deposit and receive rent in advance.

In addition to the information provided by the tenant there are a number of companies that provide information on prospective tenants, and I would expect a landlord to utilise these and public records to satisify themselves.

Accordingly, I would state that you do not need their bank details, their employment details, their birth certifcate or their national insurance number.

Hi

Wouldn't the information you have suggested as reasonable be sufficient to clone someone's identity in any case?

Preston

Bel
23-03-2009, 22:51 PM
The letting insurance providers always insist on a huge array of information, otherwise they will not insure the LL against default by the tenant.

The OP is correct that a LL could use these details for criminal purposes. But if it did happen, LL would be very easy to trace as the source...so LL would be a fool to abuse the information this way as he is likely to be caught.

This thread has reminded us all that we must keep all T's details secure and destroy carefully when no longer relevant.

This thread has made me think as to if we actually need to log the passport or driving licence number. I agree that the original document does need to be seen to verify identity.

All T's would be prudent to take care of their own data and check the LL's ID if they want to. The potential tenant can verify the LL's ID, by checking the land registry online.

sangina
24-03-2009, 10:11 AM
Whilst I acknowledge a certain amount of information on tenants or lodgers is required there is a limit.

Giving your landlord your bank details is dodgy as if the relationship goes sour between the two then there is always those dodgy few who will try to get more money from the person.

agent46
24-03-2009, 10:15 AM
Some have lied (one tenant from huyton had a parent living in that area apparently on 100k a year. Not exactly the average salary for Huyton.) which is why these things are checked out.



Well, that all depends on whether or not you take the proceeds of crime into account ;)

jeffrey
24-03-2009, 10:22 AM
Well, that all depends on whether or not you take the proceeds of crime into account
Remember that the value of drugs can go down as well as up.

sangina
24-03-2009, 10:27 AM
I, as a tenant, personally feel that landlords knowing too much about you can be a disadvantage. My landlord has said ifs/he was like Hoogstraten (a name we all know and despise I am sure) she would have had her boys round to do something to us. She knows I am a victim of a violent assault yet threatening language like that means she knows too much.

You should check a tenants background to a point. Asking them what their parents earn is not relevant, my father earns in excess of 90k a year but he has been too selfish to help me out in the current situation. I used to earn 25k yet I now have to exist on around 45quid a week!!!!!

Paul Gibbs
24-03-2009, 10:58 AM
The documents a solicitor needs to comply with money laundering requirements is very different to what a LL may or should want from a prospective T.

Solicitor needs to ensure that the relevant checks are done so that solicitor knows that clients are who they say they are.

c/f with LL who is letting a stranger into a property of theirs. Most T's would respect the property and there will never be an issue, but on the occasion that there is a problem LL wants to have as much info as possible so that if serious damage is done or if LL suffers serious losses they can chase and enforce against T.

If T will not provide info then LL will not rent, each walks away. If a tenant has no issue in giving the information then LL (a) gets the info he wants, and (b) knows that T is less likely to trash the property and do a legger as LL has info on them.

Yes ther is a risk LL could clone the details, but with respect that is highly unlikely, and if it did LL is likely (although not guaranteed) to have finances to pay T for losses.

Ericthelobster
24-03-2009, 11:05 AM
Giving your landlord your bank details is dodgy as if the relationship goes sour between the two then there is always those dodgy few who will try to get more money from the person.How would they do that, exactly?

Anyway, as somebody else pointed out earlier, the landlord routinely gives his bank details to the tenant, as that's what's required in order for a standing order to be set up.

Richard J.
24-03-2009, 11:50 AM
Fair points.

Also - how often do you hear of a landlord stealing a tenants identity. How often do you hear of tenants doing it? Defenitely more. A tenant even once raised a mortgage on an unencumbered house, leading to it being repossessed.

How often do you hear about people having their identities cloned and have no idea how this happened?

The (unscrupulous) landlord of course does not have to be involved in the cloning but merely has to sell on the information for a fee. It would of course be virtually impossible to track this back to the (unscrupulous) landlord if he received cash in hand.

Paul Gibbs
24-03-2009, 12:42 PM
How often do you hear about people having their identities cloned and have no idea how this happened?

The (unscrupulous) landlord of course does not have to be involved in the cloning but merely has to sell on the information for a fee. It would of course be virtually impossible to track this back to the (unscrupulous) landlord if he received cash in hand.

Sorry I do not agree that this is likely.

It is equally likely that employees at a bank could steal the information - should customers not give any information to banks?

Payments over the internet could be sold on - should people not enter credit card details online?

The most common form of ID theft is by cloning cards with a small swipe machine - IMHO you should be more wary when handing your debit/credit card to someone than when you give information to a LL.

Richard J.
25-03-2009, 11:12 AM
Sorry I do not agree that this is likely.

It is equally likely that employees at a bank could steal the information - should customers not give any information to banks?

Payments over the internet could be sold on - should people not enter credit card details online?

The most common form of ID theft is by cloning cards with a small swipe machine - IMHO you should be more wary when handing your debit/credit card to someone than when you give information to a LL.

When talking about landlords we are talking about members of the public. There may well be professional landlords who utilise this site, but any member of the public can obtain a the Lodger Application from this site.

Whilst I am not suggesting for a moment that anyone involved in this thread would sell or clone a tenant/lodges identity this site does not vet its users and there is no supervision of what a person does once they have this information as opposed to bank employees who are supervised and vetted.

Accordingly, I think it is much more likely that a member of the public would be involved in selling information, or even cloning an identity, than an employee of a bank (which is not to say that a bank employee would not try, just that I think it is much less likely).

Paul Gibbs
25-03-2009, 11:47 AM
When talking about landlords we are talking about members of the public. There may well be professional landlords who utilise this site, but any member of the public can obtain a the Lodger Application from this site.

Whilst I am not suggesting for a moment that anyone involved in this thread would sell or clone a tenant/lodges identity this site does not vet its users and there is no supervision of what a person does once they have this information as opposed to bank employees who are supervised and vetted.

Accordingly, I think it is much more likely that a member of the public would be involved in selling information, or even cloning an identity, than an employee of a bank (which is not to say that a bank employee would not try, just that I think it is much less likely).


People are only going to fill in the information if they are a potential lodger or tenant of a LL. If a persons ID is later cloned then the victim would tell the police that they filled in a form and gave it to LL and police would pay LL a call.

IMO it is often as stated previously from swipes than these forms. Organised crime would often contact people who have exposure to a larger sector of the public than a LL. Eg a cashier in a petrol station who can skim the info off each customers card. The 'gang' then get many victims info before they get caught. Using LL's is unlikely as they would not have as large a network than a cashier could potentially have.

soon2retire
25-03-2009, 12:28 PM
Could I also request information from proposed lodger, as for example:
1. Their Health.
2. Their Religion.
3. Their Drinking habits.

All of these could affect the well-being and general atmosphere within my home. Or would some of these be classed as discrimination?

yaf201
25-03-2009, 12:43 PM
Could I also request information from proposed lodger, as for example:
1. Their Health.
2. Their Religion.
3. Their Drinking habits.

All of these could affect the well-being and general atmosphere within my home. Or would some of these be classed as discrimination?

I think you can discriminate as much as you like in your own home. I certainly wouldn't want to live with a sober healthy christian - where's the fun in that ;)

Esio Trot
25-03-2009, 15:32 PM
Could I also request information from proposed lodger, as for example:
1. Their Health.
2. Their Religion.
3. Their Drinking habits.

All of these could affect the well-being and general atmosphere within my home. Or would some of these be classed as discrimination?

I know of a landlady of mature age who took in a female lodger, who immediately having moved in caused no end of upset.

The lodger announced that she was a devout Moslem, and didn't like it that she had seen bacon in the fridge. In a screaming rant said that having seen this it made her feel sick. As a result she would have to have a separate fridge, cooking pans and utensils (and separate means of washing them) so that her food wasn't contaminated by the landlady and her unclean food.

After a fraught two months the lass left, but the owner despite living on a small pension and finding it hard to manage is now very fearful of taking in anyone else.

Sharing a home with a lodger is such a personal thing.

Great care has to be taken that both parties are happy with the arrangement.

Sorrel
25-03-2009, 15:38 PM
Hell i knew a landlady that would only accept single white males between the age of 23 and 37 (don't ask me why) into her 2 bed executive apartment. Safe to say it took a canny while for it to get rented out!

jeffrey
25-03-2009, 15:50 PM
Hell i knew a landlady that would only accept single white males between the age of 23 and 37 (don't ask me why) into her 2 bed executive apartment. Safe to say it took a canny while for it to get rented out!
Why, was she ugly?

mind the gap
25-03-2009, 15:52 PM
Hell i knew a landlady that would only accept single white males between the age of 23 and 37 (don't ask me why) into her 2 bed executive apartment. Safe to say it took a canny while for it to get rented out!

It is surely illegal to specify that the tenants had to be white?

yaf201
25-03-2009, 15:56 PM
It is surely illegal to specify that the tenants had to be white?

Not in your own home, no. IMHO, it;s best to be upfront about your prejudices for the tenants sake. Who would want to live with a bigot but another bigot? They can happily sit around hating people they've never met.

Sorrel
25-03-2009, 15:57 PM
Why, was she ugly?

never thought of it that way, she had a face like the bottom of a handbag

mind the gap
25-03-2009, 16:03 PM
The lodger announced that she was a devout Moslem, and didn't like it that she had seen bacon in the fridge. In a screaming rant said that having seen this it made her feel sick. As a result she would have to have a separate fridge, cooking pans and utensils (and separate means of washing them) so that her food wasn't contaminated by the landlady and her unclean food.

After a fraught two months the lass left, but the owner despite living on a small pension and finding it hard to manage is now very fearful of taking in anyone else.

Sharing a home with a lodger is such a personal thing.



It certainly is, which is why the LL should have asked about the dietary and culinary preferences of prospective lodgers before she agreed to offer anyone a room and take money off them for the privilege. It was presumably not the fact that the lodger was a Moslem which caused the problem, but that the LL had assumed her lodger would not object to her lifestyle. She would have presumably found a strict vegetarian, vegan or Jewish or Buddhist lodger equally unsuitable, if they had to share her kitchen with her. It would not be fair on either LL or lodger and I can understand why the lodger was unhappy. You would surely ask whether someone smoked or not - and people's food habits are just as important.

It is possible to put these questions to people without being racist.

Bel
25-03-2009, 21:24 PM
Not in your own home, no. IMHO, it;s best to be upfront about your prejudices for the tenants sake. Who would want to live with a bigot but another bigot? They can happily sit around hating people they've never met.

Lodgers: you can't discriminate on the grounds of age, sex, race, disability...





http://www.lawpack.co.uk/Knowledge/Property/LandlordAndTenancy/article1745.asp

mind the gap
25-03-2009, 21:45 PM
Lodgers: you can't discriminate on the grounds of age, sex, race, disability...

http://www.lawpack.co.uk/Knowledge/Property/LandlordAndTenancy/article1745.asp

Hmmmm...they don't include religion - wonder if that was the 'etc'? However, that could be a can of worms, couldn't it? If I had a room to rent out in my house, I would welcome anyone of any religious persuasion, who led a quiet, celibate, reflective and TV-free life (unmarried Plymouth Brethen are to be recommended), but not someone whose religion involved loud music of any description, or having dead animals on my kitchen work surface. Would that be classed as religious discrimination, or just as me saying 'no' to someone whose lifestyle is incompatible with my sensibilities?

jeffrey
25-03-2009, 21:56 PM
Lodgers: you can't discriminate on the grounds of age, sex, race, disability...
Why not? Please prove this, rather than merely waving the website that says so.

Preston
25-03-2009, 22:21 PM
Why not? Please prove this, rather than merely waving the website that says so.

Not sure on the age thing, but for the others see: Race Relations Act 1976, s24; Sex Discrimination Act 1975, s31; Disability Discrimination Act 1995, s22. But in all cases, the majority of resident landlords are excluded from committing an offence under this legislation. The provisions differ slightly from one Act to another, but in the main this means that the landlord shares living accommodation with someone else in the premises, but excluding storage space or means of access.

Bel
25-03-2009, 23:58 PM
But in all cases, the majority of resident landlords are excluded from committing an offence under this legislation. The provisions differ slightly from one Act to another, but in the main this means that the landlord shares living accommodation with someone else in the premises, but excluding storage space or means of access.

So to put a card in your window saying "Lodger required. No Irish or Blacks" (as I believe was once common practice) is still acceptable?

jta
26-03-2009, 07:31 AM
So to put a card in your window saying "Lodger required. No Irish or Blacks" (as I believe was once common practice) is still acceptable?

It's not really a case of 'No Irish or Blacks' though is it? When you are talking about lodgers, it's more to do with compatibility. If you are going to have someone in your home who will be sharing your facilities, it makes sense that you want someone who will not grate on your nerves, if you are vegetarian yourself, do you want meat to be stored in your fridge? If you were a moslem woman, would you share your house with a man other than your husband? Like it or lump it. Personally, I could put up with someone who had blue skin and green spots so long as he she or it had the same tastes as me, by the same token I would find it very hard to share a house with my sister, who definitely does not.

Preston
26-03-2009, 08:16 AM
So to put a card in your window saying "Lodger required. No Irish or Blacks" (as I believe was once common practice) is still acceptable?

Hi

I'm afraid my rather brief summary late last night did not give justice to the subject. Here is the full amended version of section 24:

24. (1) Where the licence or consent of the landlord or of any other person is required for the disposal to any person of premises in Great Britain comprised in a tenancy, it is unlawful for the landlord or other person
(a)to discriminate against a person by withholding the licence or consent for disposal of the premises to him, or
(b)in relation to such a licence or consent, to subject to harassment a person who applies for the licence or consent, or from whom the licence or consent is withheld.]
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply [to discrimination on grounds other than those of race or ethnic or national origins] if—
(a)the person withholding a licence of consent, or a near relative of his ( “the relevant occupier") resides, and intends to continue to reside, on the premises; and
(b)there is on the premises, in addition to the accommodation occupied by the relevant occupier, accommodation (not being storage accommodation or means of access) shared by the relevant occupier with other persons residing on the premises who are not members of his household; and
(c)the premises are small premises.
(3) Section 22(2) (meaning of “small premises") shall apply for the purposes of this as well as of that section.
(4) In this section “tenancy" means a tenancy created by a lease or sub-lease, by an agreement for a lease or sub-lease or by a tenancy agreement or in pursuance of any enactment; and “disposal", in relation to premises comprised in a tenancy, includes assignment or assignation of the tenancy and sub-letting or parting with possession of the premises or any part of the premises.
(5) This section applies to tenancies created before the passing of this Act, as well as to others

Bel
26-03-2009, 10:17 AM
It's not really a case of 'No Irish or Blacks' though is it? When you are talking about lodgers, it's more to do with compatibility. If you are going to have someone in your home who will be sharing your facilities, it makes sense that you want someone who will not grate on your nerves, if you are vegetarian yourself, do you want meat to be stored in your fridge? If you were a moslem woman, would you share your house with a man other than your husband? Like it or lump it. Personally, I could put up with someone who had blue skin and green spots so long as he she or it had the same tastes as me, by the same token I would find it very hard to share a house with my sister, who definitely does not.

I agree that compatability is key and the LL is free to select who he is comfortable with; the thing is to not display 'prejudice' in doing so.

mind the gap
26-03-2009, 10:22 AM
I thought that may be the case. It is (or should be) easy to see why discrimination on grounds of skin colour, racial, ethnic or national identity is invidious in any situation since those things in themselves do not have a direct bearing on that person's suitability for a job or a tenancy, etc. For example, one of the chefs in our local Indian restaurant is not Indian, but was appointed because he can cook Indian food expertly and understands enough of his colleagues' first language to follow instructions, etc.

The same must apply to decisions based on age, gender and disability, although there are (I belive) reasonable exceptions to this in both employment and situations involving lodgers.

Aspects of a person's lifestyle/behaviour made in connection with their religion or other aspects of their culture, are different. Whilst it would be wrong for a resident landlord to discriminate solely because someone is a Catholic, or a Moslem, or of any faith or none, it may be that their choice to live their life according to their faith (or the LL, theirs) may make them incompatible as housemates.

Bel
26-03-2009, 10:25 AM
Hi

I'm afraid my rather brief summary late last night did not give justice to the subject. Here is the full amended version of section 24:

24. (1) Where the licence or consent of the landlord or of any other person is required for the disposal to any person of premises in Great Britain comprised in a tenancy, it is unlawful for the landlord or other person
(a)to discriminate against a person by withholding the licence or consent for disposal of the premises to him, or
(b)in relation to such a licence or consent, to subject to harassment a person who applies for the licence or consent, or from whom the licence or consent is withheld.]
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply [to discrimination on grounds other than those of race or ethnic or national origins] if—
(a)the person withholding a licence of consent, or a near relative of his ( “the relevant occupier") resides, and intends to continue to reside, on the premises; and
(b)there is on the premises, in addition to the accommodation occupied by the relevant occupier, accommodation (not being storage accommodation or means of access) shared by the relevant occupier with other persons residing on the premises who are not members of his household; and
(c)the premises are small premises.
(3) Section 22(2) (meaning of “small premises") shall apply for the purposes of this as well as of that section.
(4) In this section “tenancy" means a tenancy created by a lease or sub-lease, by an agreement for a lease or sub-lease or by a tenancy agreement or in pursuance of any enactment; and “disposal", in relation to premises comprised in a tenancy, includes assignment or assignation of the tenancy and sub-letting or parting with possession of the premises or any part of the premises.
(5) This section applies to tenancies created before the passing of this Act, as well as to others

Thank you for posting that.

What ever is in the mind of the LL would be his business.

But do you think that publicly posting a discriminatory advertisement would be legally ok ?

Or would it breach other parts of the act, because it could be seen as inflammatory ?

mind the gap
26-03-2009, 10:43 AM
Thank you for posting that.

What ever is in the mind of the LL would be his business.

But do you think that publicly posting a discriminatory advertisement would be legally ok ?

Or would it breach other parts of the act, because it could be seen as inflammatory ?

I interpret the section of the Act posted by Preston as meeaing that you cannot discrimate on grounds of ethnicity/colour, not that you can., so the No Irish/No Blacks would be illegal.

jeffrey
26-03-2009, 11:03 AM
I interpret the section of the Act posted by Preston as meeaing that you cannot discrimate on grounds of ethnicity/colour, not that you can., so the No Irish/No Blacks would be illegal.
No. One can discriminate if:
a. if it's not on grounds of race/ethnicity/origin; and
b. all three conditions in subsection (2) apply, as follows:

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply [to discrimination on grounds other than those of race or ethnic or national origins] if—
(a)the person withholding a licence of consent, or a near relative of his (“the relevant occupier") resides, and intends to continue to reside, on the premises; and
(b)there is on the premises, in addition to the accommodation occupied by the relevant occupier, accommodation (not being storage accommodation or means of access) shared by the relevant occupier with other persons residing on the premises who are not members of his household; and
(c)the premises are small premises.

Bel
26-03-2009, 11:15 AM
Just re-reading Prestons post....(edit)

I missed reading the grounds other than race. Whoops.

What would be the other grounds? Would it be things such as food eaten, clothing worn, customs, religion?

mind the gap
26-03-2009, 11:21 AM
No. One can discriminate if:
a. if it's not on grounds of race/ethnicity/origin; and
b. all three conditions in subsection (2) apply, as follows:

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply [to discrimination on grounds other than those of race or ethnic or national origins] if—
(a)the person withholding a licence of consent, or a near relative of his (“the relevant occupier") resides, and intends to continue to reside, on the premises; and
(b)there is on the premises, in addition to the accommodation occupied by the relevant occupier, accommodation (not being storage accommodation or means of access) shared by the relevant occupier with other persons residing on the premises who are not members of his household; and
(c)the premises are small premises.


That's what I thought said. Sorry if it wasn't clear. In plain English, I think the section you and Preston have quoted means : Resident landlords seeking lodgers to share living space in their homes, can discriminate on some grounds (e.g. gender, age, religion, disability), but not on the grounds of race or ethnicity. Does anyone disagree?

In short, I do not think there are any situations in the UK where you can recruit or advertise for a person, and then reject him or her purely on the grounds of ethnicity.

Bel
26-03-2009, 11:29 AM
That's what I thought said. Sorry if it wasn't clear. In plain English, I think the section you and Preston have quoted means : Resident landlords seeking lodgers to share living space in their homes, can discriminate on some grounds (e.g. gender, age, religion, disability), but not on the grounds of race or ethnicity. Does anyone disagree?

In short, I do not think there are any situations in the UK where you can recruit or advertise for a person, and then reject him or her purely on the grounds of ethnicity.

If that quote is from the race relations act, I would think it only has clout regarding issues of race, not gender, sexual orientation, age or disability. You would have to visit the other legislation to be sure.

Then what would be the other grounds be that one is allowed to discriminate if you are a lodger LL rather than a normal LL ? Would it be things such as food eaten, clothing worn, customs, religion?

Preston
26-03-2009, 20:17 PM
Thank you for posting that.

What ever is in the mind of the LL would be his business.

But do you think that publicly posting a discriminatory advertisement would be legally ok ?

Or would it breach other parts of the act, because it could be seen as inflammatory ?

Hi

I am not an expert in this issue by any means. My understanding is that rental accommodation in "small premises", where the landlord/landlady or owner or a member of his or her family also live, and where they would have to share facilities with people who are not members of the household is exempt if the discrimination is on grounds of colour or nationality, but not if the grounds of discrimination are those of race, ethnic or national origin.

Does that fit with what others are saying?

Preston

mind the gap
26-03-2009, 20:28 PM
Hi

I am not an expert in this issue by any means. My understanding is that rental accommodation in "small premises", where the landlord/landlady or owner or a member of his or her family also live, and where they would have to share facilities with people who are not members of the household is exempt if the discrimination is on grounds of colour or nationality, but not if the grounds of discrimination are those of race, ethnic or national origin.

Does that fit with what others are saying?

Preston


No! Preston, read that back! Are you sure it's what you meant to write?

In the first bit I've picked out in red, you appear to be saying LLs can (because they are 'exempt') discriminate on colour and nationality grounds, then in the second part, just the opposite (that they cannot).

I maintain that nobody, in any situation, can discriminate based on colour, nationality, ethnicity or racial origin.

Preston
26-03-2009, 20:38 PM
No! Preston, read that back! Are you sure it's what you meant to write?

In the first bit I've picked out in red, you appear to be saying LLs can (because they are 'exempt') discriminate on colour and nationality grounds, then in the second part, just the opposite (that they cannot).

I maintain that nobody, in any situation, can discriminate based on colour, nationality, ethnicity or racial origin.

I think I would like that to be the case, but its not my reading of the Act as a whole and in particular 24 (2)(1). Very happy to be proven wrong on this one!

mind the gap
26-03-2009, 20:48 PM
I think I would like that to be the case, but its not my reading of the Act as a whole and in particular 24 (2)(1). Very happy to be proven wrong on this one!

I'm not an expert on the Act, but would you not agree that the bits I've picked out from your summary are self-contradictory?

If not, does that mean that you think the law allows LLs to say 'No Blacks/No Irish'? because they are exempt from the Race Discrimination Act?

Preston
26-03-2009, 21:30 PM
I'm not an expert on the Act, but would you not agree that the bits I've picked out from your summary are self-contradictory?



I dont think so, because the Act draws distinctions between the different "types" of discrimination in s1(1) and s1(1)(A) and again in 24(2)(1).

Incidentally, as for whether the hypothetical advert you describe might be construed as referring (albeit indirectly) to racial, ethnic or national origins I have no idea, but I would guess that there is a reasonably high "risk" of this being the case, so I think anyone who did so would be particularly stupid. But then I guess that goes without saying.

davidjohnbutton
29-03-2009, 11:39 AM
I have a very simple answer to any tenant not wanting to complete in full an application form for one of my properties.

Either you fill it in - completely - to every last detail - or you dont get offered the tenancy.

If you fill in the bits you want to fill in, and leave the bits you dont want to fill in - then in the shredder it goes.

If you lie on the form in an attempt to obtain a tenancy by false pretences - its passed to he police.

I do not practice racial or disability discrimination - I do not ask what colour the applicant is and it is up to the applicant to tell me if they have any special requirements. I do ask if they intend to apply for help with the rent but it is not discrimination to ask this, nor is it discrimination to ask how much money they have coming in and how much of that they spend.

I justify my application form by the fact that I am letting out a property to them which is worth between £90 and £130k and I want to be sure that they will have enough money to properly heat it and look after it.

You want to rent my property, you fill out one of my forms, I do an ID check and other relevant checks to make sure you are who you say you are and you might be successful.

P*ss me about, dont fill in the forms properly, fail to pay over the deposit/RIA and I move onto the next applicant. Simple - and I would not spend any time arguing with anyone who alleges my formwork is intrusive - they can go suck eggs for all I care.

johnboy
29-03-2009, 15:04 PM
Quite right, I dont think Richard J has ever been a L/L had a lodger or had to chase a tenant after they have done a bunk owing a shed load of money for rent or damage.

It is common sense to get as much info as poss on a tenant.