Spelling, grammar, and syntax

[jeffrey]

See an interesting BBC website item today: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/1/hi/magazine/7595509.stm

[mind the gap]

I'd love to, but it doesn't seem to work. The link you've given just puts up a CNN news page. Is the article on the BBC news website and if so, what's it called?

[mind the gap]

It speaks to me.

Can this forum be extended to include the bizarre capitalisation seen on public signs? 'No Left turn', No Parking on market Day' etc. I've developed an irrational loathing of that, too, recently.

(Is medical help available?!)

[Lawcruncher]

All these prescriptivists should be locked in a room with a yoof who keeps saying "innit".

One said, "Incorrect use of reflexives make my blood boil."

Children being chained to benches and being made to weave carpets for fifteen hours a day makes my blood boil.

[mind the gap]

All these prescriptivists should be locked in a room with a yoof who keeps saying "innit".

One said, "Incorrect use of reflexives make my blood boil."

Children being chained to benches and being made to weave carpets for fifteen hours a day makes my blood boil.

Some of us are regularly locked in a room with said yoofs, which is probably what tips us over the edge to start with...but thank you for putting things back in perspective.

[Rodent1]

Can you guys imagine just how much more cash you would be making if you spent your time working instead of doing this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????????


The Rodent

[jta]

Children being chained to benches and being made to weave carpets for fifteen hours a day makes my blood boil.
well at least it keeps 'em off the streets

Is there another way to make them earn their pocket money?

[mind the gap]

well at least it keeps 'em off the streets

Is there another way to make them earn their pocket money?

Tasteless or what?

[jeffrey]

Can you guys imagine just how much more cash you would be making if you spent your time working instead of doing this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????????


The Rodent
...or how much more time YOU'D have if you spent less in extended ? and ! usage.

[jeffrey]

All these prescriptivists should be locked in a room with a yoof who keeps saying "innit".

One said, "Incorrect use of reflexives make my blood boil."

Children being chained to benches and being made to weave carpets for fifteen hours a day makes my blood boil.
MindThe Gap: you want tasteless? Extreme heat torture makes anyone's blood boil.

[lorenzo]

My point of confusion (one of many rather), having been partly raised in the US, is the -ise -ize suffix.

Spellchecker of course defers to the American version, but what is the rule here?

realise realize

categorise categorize

stigmatise stigmatize

etc

[jeffrey]

I say potato.
Generally, English usage prefers -ise. There are sometimes good reasons for switching to -ize ('emphasise' looks wrong!)

[lorenzo]

I found this via Google:

tomaytoes and tomahtoes

-ize, -ise
There are two groups of words here, and these should not be confused.

The first group consists of words which are always spelled with -ise in all varieties of English. The most frequent verbs in this group are advertise, advise, apprise, chastise, circumcise, comprise, compromise, despise, devise, disguise, excise, exercise, improvise, supervise, surmise, surprise and televise, to which we may add the nouns demise, enterprise, franchise and merchandise, some of which are occasionally used as verbs. These words do not contain the Greek suffix -ize and may never be spelled with -ize. British writers attempting to use American spelling sometimes slip up here and write, for example, *advertize, which is never acceptable.

The second, and much larger, group consists of verbs containing the Greek suffix -ize. Among these are realize, civilize, ostracize, jeopardize, organize and trivialize; there are far too many to list here, and new ones are coined almost at will, like hospitalize, finalize and prioritize. These words must be spelled with -ize in American English. In British English, the spelling with -ize is traditional, and is still preferred in many conservative quarters, for example at the Oxford University Press. But the newer spelling in -ise is now widespread in Britain and is preferred in other quarters. British writers may use whichever spelling they prefer, unless they are writing for a publishing house which insists upon one or the other.

Whichever spelling you prefer, you must, of course, be consistent, and use it exclusively, not only with the verbs but with their derived nouns like realization and civilization.

There is a complication with the verb exorcize, exorcise. Historically, this word contains the suffix -ize, and so it should be spelled exorcize in the style that uses -ize. However, many people no longer perceive this as containing the suffix, and so it is sometimes spelled exorcise even in the style with -ize.

Note also the unusual word capsize, which is spelled -ize in all varieties.

[Lawcruncher]

-ise and -ize are equally acceptable.

If anyone tells you different, according to how you feel:

1. Tell them to get a life.

2. Tell them to go forth and multiply.

3. Get out a dictionary that shows both spellings as acceptable and show it to them.

4. Insist that that is the way you spell whatever anyone says.

5. Burst into tears and tell them it is not your fault that you did not have the benefit of a good education. You were doing well at school and hoped to be a primary school teacher, but had to leave to look after your younger brothers and sisters when your mother was struck down by illness and had to take to her bed. You have been trying hard to make up for it since, but it is all so very difficult.

6. Give them an hour long lecture demonstrating that all spellings are arbritary and the result of historical accident and the whims of 15th century printers.

7. Challenge them to a duel

8. Smile inscrutably.

[lorenzo]

-ise and -ize are equally acceptable.

If anyone tells you different, according to how you feel:

1. Tell them to get a life.

2. Tell them to go forth and multiply.

3. Get out a dictionary that shows both spellings as acceptable and show it to them.

4. Insist that that is the way you spell whatever anyone says.

5. Burst into tears and tell them it is not your fault that you did not have the benefit of a good education. You were doing well at school and hoped to be a primary school teacher, but had to leave to look after your younger brothers and sisters when your mother was struck down by illness and had to take to her bed. You have been trying hard to make up for it since, but it is all so very difficult.

6. Give them an hour long lecture demonstrating that all spellings are arbritary and the result of historical accident and the whims of 15th century printers.

7. Challenge them to a duel

8. Smile inscrutably.
Should i do all of the above, or will one suffice? suffise? suphise? scuphice?

[jeffrey]

6. Give them an hour long lecture demonstrating that all spellings are arbritary and the result of historical accident and the whims of 15th century printers.
What, even 'arbitrary'?

[Charlton King]

I find it quite amusing that the ranks of those who claim that spelling and grammar are unimportant seem to be swollen disproportionately by those who have some degree of awareness that they themselves are lacking in precisely those skill areas...

[jeffrey]

I find it quite amusing that the ranks of those who claim that spelling and grammar are unimportant seem to be swollen disproportionately by those who have some degree of awareness that they themselves are lacking in precisely those skill areas...
Takes one to know one, I suppose!

[Lawcruncher]

What, even 'arbitrary'?

I can spell, bit I canont tpye.

[mind the gap]

If New Labour limites itself to a mere 10 000, that'd be a significan inroad into its compunction to legislate for everything no matter how trivial.


limites?
significan?
compunction/complusion?
Early liquid lunch, Jeffrey? ;)

[jeffrey]

limites?
significan?
compunction/complusion?
Early liquid lunch, Jeffrey?
No, but 'compunction' is correct.
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/compunction

compunction



• noun a feeling of guilt or moral scruple that prevents or follows wrongdoing: he felt no compunction in letting her worry.
— DERIVATIVES compunctious adjective. — ORIGIN Latin, from compungere ‘prick sharply’.

[jeffrey]

complusion?

"Complusion"? Biter bit!

[mind the gap]

"Complusion"? Biter bit!

Tooshay, but I still don't think 'compunction to legislate' makes sense.

[jeffrey]

I still don't think 'compunction to legislate' makes sense.
Sure it does. New Labour was not 'compelled' to legislate- nobody forced it to do so- but it feels an innate need to pressgang people into acting, in accordance with its fixed mindset, by compelling them to jump through its hoops. That's a compunction!

[mind the gap]

Sure it does. New Labour was not 'compelled' to legislate- nobody forced it to do so- but it feels an innate need to pressgang people into acting, in accordance with its fixed mindset, by compelling them to jump through its hoops. That's a compunction!


Compulsion does not need to be externally generated - it can come from within, which is what I thought you meant.

However, the Latin etymology of 'compunction' has persuaded me that your usage is indeed allowable, so you're off the hook (for now!)

[Sportingdad]

You do not know me at all and you could not be more wrong in your visualisation of me.

Finally, if you knew the first thing about knitting, you would know it is neither possible nor desirable to do it in a rocking chair! Could be painful. Please try it at home, Sportingdad. A knitting needle up the nose might be just the thing to bring you to your senses.

Now we are being bitchy, clearly I am a lot closer to discribing you than you about me, however move on, this is a forum and we are all allowed our views.

Incidentally, are you now the site spell/grammer checker AND moderator ?

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=17436

[jeffrey]

Compulsion does not need to be externally generated - it can come from within, which is what I thought you meant.
You're confusing 'compelled' [external] and 'impelled' [internal].

[jeffrey]

Now we are being bitchy, clearly I am a lot closer to discribing you than you about me, however move on, this is a forum and we are all allowed our views.

Incidentally, are you now the site spell/grammer checker AND moderator ?

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=17436
So how do you spell 'grammar'?

[mind the gap]

You're confusing 'compelled' [external] and 'impelled' [internal].


I see what you mean. However I think the abstract noun 'impulse' connotes a drive to do something which is more whimsical than systematic (you may feel the govt's tendency to overlegislate is that, I suppose!).

I still think 'compulsion' can be used for a drive from within as well as an externally operating force.

Interesting that 'impulsion' does not exist, or 'compulse', despite the linked etymology.

[mind the gap]

Now we are being bitchy, clearly I am a lot closer to discribing you than you about me, however move on, this is a forum and we are all allowed our views.

Incidentally, are you now the site spell/grammer checker AND moderator ?

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=17436

It was a joke, not a serious suggestion; SOHT needed?

I am not, and have never been, a LLZ moderator. (What's this - the Mc Carthy witch hunt?)

You're obviously a bit touchy about your literacy,:) so I'll let the last one pass.

Enjoy your day!

[jeffrey]

I see what you mean. However I think the abstract noun 'impulse' connotes a drive to do something which is more whimsical than systematic (you may feel the govts' tendency to overlegislate is that, I suppose!).

I still think 'complusion'
can be used for a drive from within as well as an externally operating force.

Interesting that 'impulsion' does not exist, or 'compulse' despite the linked etymology.
: "Complusion"- seemingly your pet word of the moment- does not exist either.

[mind the gap]

: "Complusion"- seemingly your pet word of the moment- does not exist either.


Typing - and proof-reading 'blind spot'/error - apologies.

You will, I am sure, have worked out that I meant 'compulsion'.

[mind the gap]

We seem to have been moved to TAB by the LLZ fairy, however the title given is inaccurate.

Nothing on this severed thread is actually about grammar, is it?

Lexis, semantics and spelling, yes.

[jeffrey]

We seem to have been moved to TAB by the LLZ fairy however the title given is inaccurate.

Nothing on this severed thread is actually about grammar, is it?

Lexis, semantics and spelling, yes.
Ha- your third paragraph lacks a verb; so it is about grammar now.

[mind the gap]

Ha- your third paragraph lacks a verb; so it is about grammar now.

It is a telegraphic construction, in which the meaning is unambiguous!

(And it wasn't a paragraph anyway :p)

I wonder what what happened to lexis and semantics?

The fairy obviously reads your posts more closely than she reads mine.

[jeffrey]

It is a telegraphic construction, in which the meaning is unambiguous!
Don't only CHAPS use telegraphic construction?
[banking joke; just as Sir Fred is].

[mind the gap]

Don't only CHAPS use telegraphic construction?
[banking joke; just as Sir Fred is].

Banking jokes?

A barn-door example of how the medium becomes synonymous with the message.

[jeffrey]

Banking jokes?

A barn-door example of how the medium becomes synonymous with the message.
The medium is average, you mean (modishly).

[mind the gap]

The medium is average, you mean (modishly).

No, the medium is the joke.

The massage was mean.

A mean massage by a medium could be a la mode.

[agent46]

The medium is average, you mean (modishly).

Medium is the mean. Median is the middle. Mode is the most.

[mind the gap]

Medium is the mean. Median is the middle. Mode is the most.


Key Stage Three Level Five. Well done agent46;)

Even better than your performance in the NFOPP exam!

[jeffrey]

Medium is the mean. Median is the middle. Mode is the most.
N is the mid-range.