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Kaya
26-02-2009, 21:33 PM
Hi all

Hope you can help. I need to know if the S21 notice I served on my tenant is valid or not.

Specifics:

AST Start Date: 28th June 2007 (for one year)
Fixed tenancy period end date: 27th June 2008
Notice served on: 31st October 2008
Notice expired on: 31st December 2008

The tenant is in a periodic tenancy (paid rent weekly as a Housing Benefit tenant and HB is calculated weekly).

I would like to know if this is legally valid and if not, the correct notice period I would have to serve instead.

Thank you for all your help!

Kind regards

Kaya*

mind the gap
26-02-2009, 21:42 PM
Hi all

Hope you can help. I need to know if the S21 notice I served on my tenant is valid or not.

Specifics:

AST Start Date: 28th June 2007 (for one year)
Fixed tenancy period end date: 27th June 2008
Notice served on: 31st October 2008
Notice expired on: 31st December 2008

The tenant is in a periodic tenancy (paid rent weekly as a Housing Benefit tenant and HB is calculated weekly).

I would like to know if this is legally valid and if not, the correct notice period I would have to serve instead.

Thank you for all your help!

Kind regards

Kaya*

As long as the notice period is at least 8 weeks, which it seems to be, and its expiry date co-incides with the end of a rent period (ie the day of the week before rent day), then it should be in order.

It is invalidated if you have not protected their deposit in a scheme (you did, I assume?)

Anyone disagree?

Kaya
26-02-2009, 21:57 PM
It is invalidated if you have not protected their deposit in a scheme (you did, I assume?)


I did not take a deposit at the start of the tenancy, so this clause does not apply I assume? I instead asked for two months rent in advance, which the tenant has stuck to.

mind the gap
26-02-2009, 22:43 PM
I did not take a deposit at the start of the tenancy, so this clause does not apply I assume? I instead asked for two months rent in advance, which the tenant has stuck to.

By that, do you mean that the tenant paid two months rent before moving in, then no more until the start of the third month?

Or do you mean that the tenant paid two months up front then had to pay again at the satrt of the first or the second month, so that you always had at least one month's money 'over' in addition to what T paid for the current month? (hope that makes sense!)

If the latter scenario, then I'm afraid that may well be seen as a deposit, not rent, and needs to be protected.

Kaya
26-02-2009, 23:00 PM
Leaving aside the deposit scenario, is this S21 notice valid? Assuming there IS NO deposit taken or to be repaid, do the DATES of the notice stack up? That's what I want to confirm. Thank you all

Kaya*

Paul Gibbs
27-02-2009, 09:58 AM
*edit - noticed rent paid weekly.

if the rent is to be paid weekly then the rent due dates appear to be : -

28 Jun 08
5 July 08
12 July 08
19 July 08
26 July 08
2 Aug 08
9 Aug 08
16 Aug 08
23 Aug 08
30 Aug 08
6 Sept 08
13 Sept 08
20 Sept 08
27 Sept 08
4 Oct 08
11 Oct 08
18 Oct 08
25 Oct 08

The last period expires on 31 October therefore notice is vaild

justaboutsane
27-02-2009, 10:17 AM
No they don't. How did you serve the notice? By hand or by post? If by hand after 5pm then it will not give a full 2 months notice as it must be served within business hours. If by Post you have not allowed time for it to arrive.

Also you may fall down on the two months rent thing.. have a trawl I believe some judges have deemed it a deposit.

jeffrey
27-02-2009, 10:46 AM
Is rent PAYABLE weekly, never mind how it's actually PAID?
And did L issue a rent book or similar item [s.4 of LTA 1985]?

Kaya
28-02-2009, 00:30 AM
No they don't. How did you serve the notice? By hand or by post?


Notice was served by hand at 10.00am on 31st October

Kaya
28-02-2009, 00:35 AM
Is rent PAYABLE weekly, never mind how it's actually PAID?
And did L issue a rent book or similar item [s.4 of LTA 1985]?

Rent is payable weekly (as in the AST agreement) as the T is on HB and HB is calculated weekly (although paid every 4 weeks)

I issued a rent book, in the form of an excel sheet with the rent payments due/revieved, which the T can view at any time as it's on a virtual private network drive (I update this every week), and I also email it to T once a month. Is this acceptable, or do I need to get the old-fashioned paper kind?!

Kaya
28-02-2009, 00:45 AM
*edit - noticed rent paid weekly.

if the rent is to be paid weekly then the rent due dates appear to be : -

28 Jun 08
5 July 08
12 July 08
19 July 08
26 July 08
2 Aug 08
9 Aug 08
16 Aug 08
23 Aug 08
30 Aug 08
6 Sept 08
13 Sept 08
20 Sept 08
27 Sept 08
4 Oct 08
11 Oct 08
18 Oct 08
25 Oct 08

The last period expires on 31 October therefore notice is vaild

Hi Paul

Thank you for that! So the last period is expires on 31st October?!! Is this correct? Are you sure! Reason being I don't fully understand what a 'period' means - as a woman I know periods occur once every 28 days, but are rent 'periods' the same :) (if rent payable weekly)

Thank you so much for your help!

Kaya*

mind the gap
28-02-2009, 01:08 AM
Hi Paul

Thank you for that! So the last period is expires on 31st October?!! Is this correct? Are you sure! Reason being I don't fully understand what a 'period' means - as a woman I know periods occur once every 28 days, but are rent 'periods' the same :) (if rent payable weekly)

Thank you so much for your help!

Kaya*

A rent period for your purposes is one week ending on the day before rent falls due. However all this is academic if the extra month's rent which you took 'up front' at start of tenancy, could be deemed by a judge to be a deposit. If it is, your section 21 is invalid since you have not protected said deposit.

If you answer the questions I asked in #3, we can advise you more accurately.

Kaya
28-02-2009, 01:27 AM
By that, do you mean that the tenant paid two months rent before moving in, then no more until the start of the third month?

Or do you mean that the tenant paid two months up front then had to pay again at the satrt of the first or the second month, so that you always had at least one month's money 'over' in addition to what T paid for the current month? (hope that makes sense!)

If the latter scenario, then I'm afraid that may well be seen as a deposit, not rent, and needs to be protected.

OK, situation is: T paid 8 weeks rent up front (out of her own money) when she moved in. Rent was not then due until 8 weeks after she moved in. Because she is a HB T and HB is paid in arrears, and no further rent was paid until 8 weeks after T began (so now no rent in advance). I don't consider this to be a deposit, but will a judge - perhaps? I don't hold any deposit by the way, all monies recieved and due have been applied to the rent account, and the account is very rarely either + or - for which ever date you care to name. Hope this helps!

Kaya*

mind the gap
28-02-2009, 08:43 AM
OK, situation is: T paid 8 weeks rent up front (out of her own money) when she moved in. Rent was not then due until 8 weeks after she moved in. Because she is a HB T and HB is paid in arrears, and no further rent was paid until 8 weeks after T began (so now no rent in advance). I don't consider this to be a deposit, but will a judge - perhaps? I don't hold any deposit by the way, all monies recieved and due have been applied to the rent account, and the account is very rarely either + or - for which ever date you care to name. Hope this helps!

Kaya*

In that case, I do not think it would be viewed as a deposit; your s21 is therefore valid and correctly served.

Kaya
28-02-2009, 23:21 PM
Do you know if this rent book is valid also? The point was raised by another forum member:



did L issue a rent book or similar item [s.4 of LTA 1985]?





I issued a rent book, in the form of an excel sheet with the rent payments due/revieved, which the T can view at any time as it's on a virtual private network drive (I update this every week), and I also email it to T once a month. Is this acceptable, or do I need to get the old-fashioned paper kind?!

I want to make sure everything is valid to the letter of the law! So is it agreed here that I have served a valid S21? If so, can a judge claim otherwise and throw the case out or court? Is this black and white, or are there grey areas? This is important!! Thank you all once again for you tremendous help with this!

Thanks

Kaya*

jeffrey
02-03-2009, 12:12 PM
Do you know if this rent book is valid also? The point was raised by another forum member:






I want to make sure everything is valid to the letter of the law! So is it agreed here that I have served a valid S21? If so, can a judge claim otherwise and throw the case out or court? Is this black and white, or are there grey areas? This is important!! Thank you all once again for you tremendous help with this!
The "rent book or other similar document" [s.4 of LTA 1985] must contain certain information under s.5 as follows
(and 'restricted contract' is defined in the Rent Act 1977):

5. Information to be contained in rent books.

(1) A rent book or other similar document provided in pursuance of section 4 shall contain notice of the name and address of the landlord of the premises and:
(a) if the premises are occupied by virtue of a restricted contract, particulars of the rent and of the other terms and conditions of the contract and notice of such other matters as may be prescribed;
(b) if the premises are let on or subject to a protected or statutory tenancy or let on an assured tenancy within the meaning of Part I of the Housing Act 1988, notice of such matters as may be prescribed.

(2) If the premises are occupied by virtue of a restricted contract or let on or subject to a protected or statutory tenancyor let on an assured tenancy within the meaning of Part I of the Housing Act 1988, the notice and particulars required by this section shall be in the prescribed form.

(3) In this section “prescribed” means prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State, which:
(a) may make different provision for different cases, and
(b) shall be made by statutory instrument which shall be subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament