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View Full Version : Notices- s.8/s.21- and rent recovery



mousey
03-02-2009, 15:37 PM
firstly is it correct that if you wish to get money owed you need to serve s.8 notice or can you serve section 21 and then just not go down the posession proceedings route?

secondly i have some issues with calculating the notice periods - if an AST is continuing and start date was say 18th March would you say date tenancy meant to come to an end was 17th September or would it be 18th?

thanks for help

jeffrey
03-02-2009, 15:43 PM
firstly is it correct that if you wish to get money owed you need to serve s.8 notice or can you serve section 21 and then just not go down the posession proceedings route?
Neither Notice is itself a debt claim. Both seek to terminate the AST and regain possession for L.


secondly i have some issues with calculating the notice periods - if an AST is continuing and start date was say 18th March would you say date tenancy meant to come to an end was 17th September or would it be 18th?
If a six-month AST period begins on 18 March, it is treated as beginning at the start of that day (0000hrs.) and including the whole day

So the period ends at 2400hrs. on 17 September. That's why such a Notice is usually set to expire 'after 17 September', i.e. once that whole day has ended, rather than 'on 17 September'- what earlier point in the day would 'on' mean?

mousey
03-02-2009, 15:48 PM
Thanks for the response - in terms of the first question i meant if you are seeking money and posession do you have to use s.8 notice? as if you use s.21 is that just for the accelerated procedure where you cant get a order for money?

re the second question in my OP thank you - i was wondering this in order to work out when tenancy came to an end to then work out when notice should be given (if that makes sense!). ie if tenancy started on 18th March and two months notice required (rent payable monthly) is the expiry of the notice then not before 17th Novemeber?

jeffrey
03-02-2009, 15:53 PM
On your second paragraph: if you mean s.21, the Notice:
a. can be served at any time once the AST has started; but
b. cannot take effect before (at the earliest) the AST has ended.

mousey
03-02-2009, 15:58 PM
sorry the AST has ended and has continued... :S

PaulF
03-02-2009, 15:58 PM
S.8 allows you to include any unpaid rent providing you don't want to use the Accelerated Possession Procedure, and providing it meets the requirements of two months unpaid rent at the time of service of the Notice and at the hearing too, if rent is payable (reserved) monthly.

johnjw
03-02-2009, 16:19 PM
Neither Notice is itself a debt claim. Both seek to terminate the AST and regain possession for L.


If a six-month AST period begins on 18 March, it is treated as beginning at the start of that day (0000hrs.) and including the whole day

So the period ends at 2400hrs. on 17 September. That's why such a Notice is usually set to expire 'after 17 September', i.e. once that whole day has ended, rather than 'on 17 September'- what earlier point in the day would 'on' mean?

Thank-you for the explanation regarding why we use "after" rather than "on". However, just to be pernickety, I'd suggest that "after" is similarly lacking in precision - how much after midnight on the 17th, does "after" mean? Wouldn't "immediately after" be better?

johnboy
03-02-2009, 16:32 PM
Also if you go down the s8 route you will have to go to the court hearing but if you use the s21 and its not defended you shouldnt have to.

Rodent1
03-02-2009, 16:33 PM
Neither Notice is itself a debt claim. Both seek to terminate the AST and regain possession for L.


If a six-month AST period begins on 18 March, it is treated as beginning at the start of that day (0000hrs.) and including the whole day

So the period ends at 2400hrs. on 17 September. That's why such a Notice is usually set to expire 'after 17 September', i.e. once that whole day has ended, rather than 'on 17 September'- what earlier point in the day would 'on' mean?

"on" implies within or before, a 24hr window
"after" just means not before. and is VERY openended.
?

The Rodent

jeffrey
03-02-2009, 16:58 PM
"on" implies within or before, a 24hr window
"after" just means not before. and is VERY openended.
Yes. L is entitled to start possession proceedings at any time AFTER the s.21 Notice's expiry.

PaulF
03-02-2009, 21:17 PM
I think you will find that you can instigate proceedings before the S.21 Notice has expired providing the hearing date is after that date.

jeffrey
04-02-2009, 09:11 AM
I think you will find that you can instigate proceedings before the S.21 Notice has expired providing the hearing date is after that date.
That hadn't occurred to me, but- yes- nothing in the 1988 Act (s.7, s.21, or otherwise) demands that the s.21 Notice must expire before L applies to Court. However, I suppose that the CPR might impose extra procedural restrictions on applications.

mousey
04-02-2009, 10:02 AM
Also if you go down the s8 route you will have to go to the court hearing but if you use the s21 and its not defended you shouldnt have to.

but if you go down s.21 route you cant recover the outstanding rent so isnt it better just to use s.8 route?

Paul Gibbs
04-02-2009, 12:42 PM
s8 allows a judgment for arrears but T can enter defences eg disrepair etc etc etc whereas defences such as that will not be considered by the court under s21.

LL has to weigh up which process is best for him - is a CCJ going to get T to pay? If T is a man of straw may be a waste of time and money