HMO and Environmental Health

[justaboutsane]

Hi there all, I just want to post about the advantages of calling in an Environmental Health officer before you convert a property to an HMO.

Yesterday we had a second meeting with an EHO in the East Midlands, the first was a general fact finding meeting to see if we could convert it before making any decisions. Yesterday we met the EHO again who brought along an architect to draw up some plans of the building and work out what we would need to do.

It has been great, the EHO only wants us to do the minimum amount of work and has even raised the possibility that a grant a may be available for some of the work!

As the EHO had mentioned before, if he were coming on an enforcement issue we could be fined, made to do the maximum amount of work and not been entitled to a grant! All in all we may have saved several thousand pounds just for a few hours out of our day! :D

[susan 2]

Hi Just - I agree, I found also that if you co-operate with EHO's and Building regs officers, they can be extremely helpful. As one said to me many years ago and I quote "If someone asks our advice we will bend over backwards to give help, but most of the b........gs try to get away with murder and then wonder why we come down hard on them" Also I found that if I had mistakenly done something wrong, it was best to own up to the fault and ask them how I could proceed. I must admit to doing the poor innocent female act a bit (I was somewhat younger at the time!) The motto is I suppose to remember that they are human too.

[Patois]

Of course we try and help - it's an awful lot easier than enforcement.

Most of us given the time will try and help as much as possible if asked.
Enforcement is a last resort.

Glad to know someone thinks I'm human too! some think I am the Devil incarnate.

[justaboutsane]

Patois.... I know you are all human :D ... except can you answer me one question.. off topic! Why is there such variation in policy? In Doncaster we had a repairs order slapped on one of our LL for dodgy windows, no discussion nothing. In Bristol however, it has taken the EHO 3 months to arrange to come out and put an order on the LL ... He has been writing and giving him time.. all after he has left a seriously dodgy window for more than 10 months! Luckily that issue has been resolved (although it has now raised another!!) But I really would lilke to know why there is such variation.

[red40]

If you are converting now jutaboutsane, wouldn't it be building control that would be consulted as well?

[justaboutsane]

No red, the EHO contacted them and they are happy to stay out of it as there are going to be no structural changes. The EHO has been fantastic and done alot of the research and digging around for us! All we will do is remove a cupboard which over hangs the stairs. Basically its a normal house, that will house 4 people, 3 double rooms and one single, so nothing major to be done, the electrics are safe to use. All that may be needed is sone underboarding on the stairs and the possiblity of some fire doors and a smoke alarm hard wired.

[Worldlife]

Its great to see this praise for the work of an Environmental Health Officer.

I opted out because the work during the Thatcher period was too stressful with folk contemptuous of those working in public services. I'm a little past my "sell by" date (or should I say "best before") http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

We were underfunded with no support. EHO's, including women were expected to do late night calls with no radio or mobile support.

Technical books were sparse and outdated and there was little computer support or access to the internet to research problems.

I found the work representing an Insurance company much more rewarding financially and a better and friendlier relationship with clients. It was certainly less stressful and a computer was provided to take most of the slog out of preparing quotations and projections.

Owning and renting out a property has made me much more sympathetic to the plight of landlords. Faced with a property trashed by a tenant nowdays one cannot rely on a good odd job man. One needs to organise specialist like gas, electricity and plumber and arrange work in a logical pattern revolving around the dates one can get these people in to tackle the task. Then there is the follow up of the redecoration and cleaning services.........

Suppose that will be easier the second time!!!!!!!

[Tassotti]

All we will do is remove a cupboard which over hangs the stairs. Basically its a normal house, that will house 4 people, 3 double rooms and one single, so nothing major to be done, the electrics are safe to use. All that may be needed is sone underboarding on the stairs and the possiblity of some fire doors and a smoke alarm hard wired.

Hi justaboutsane,

Good news for you regarding the works needed doing. I spoke to my local EHO today regarding an HMO I am looking at purchasing. She told me that at the moment councils can use their discretion, but from April, the new regulations set out in Housing Act 2004 will have to be enforced.

This requires wash hand basins in all bedrooms, the fire safety regs you mention, minimum sq meterage sizes for kitchen for amount of persons sharing accommodation, and the list goes on.

May be worth rechecking this with your EHO. Last thing you need is to have to install wash hand basins.

Good Luck

Tass

[red40]

This requires wash hand basins in all bedrooms

We have been in consultation with our local authorities legal department and its been suggested that the requirement is to use discretion to have wash basins in every room so the local authority wont be enforcing it, as long as there are adequate shared amenities within the hmo.

[Patois]

The regulations regarding HMO standards are still in draft form - watch this space - many different interested parties have commented - landlords professional organisations and enforcement officers.

Hopefully they will be sorted out soon so landlords have some chance of knowing what is expected.
Personally - I hope the requirement for wash hand basins and kettles is removed.

Keep watching the ODPM website (if you can stand to) for the final regs.

[Owen Money]

The new standards have not been finalized by ODPM but my understanding is that in addition to the fire standards the amenity standards will be as follows:

Per 5 occupants:

Kitchen:

4 ring cooker with oven and grill, suitable sink and drainer and constant hot and cold water.
Minimum 1 metre worktop and 2 double 13 amp sockets
Refrigerator of suitable size
Sufficient cupboards.

Personal washing:
Bath or shower, (bath with shower over counts as one).
Wash basin with constant H & C .
WC (not external).


For 6 people, 2 WC's are mandatory, of which 1 will be in a separate compartment.