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kestrel
25-01-2009, 06:39 AM
Hi all

I seem to remember that there it is not advisable to sign an AST before the commencement date (e.g. we all sign on 25th Jan but it doesn't start till 1 Feb). Anyone know about this and the reasons why if so?

The reason I'd want to do it is that it will be difficult to get al parties together on the actual starting date (joint landlords, joint tenants)

mind the gap
25-01-2009, 07:54 AM
Hi all

I seem to remember that there it is not advisable to sign an AST before the commencement date (e.g. we all sign on 25th Jan but it doesn't start till 1 Feb). Anyone know about this and the reasons why if so?

The reason I'd want to do it is that it will be difficult to get al parties together on the actual starting date (joint landlords, joint tenants)

Given that plenty of students sign ASTs for the following academic year up to 10 months in advance, I really cannot see why there should be any problem signing yours 6 days before start of tenancy. Can you?

It could be argued that the tenancy does not actually begin until you move in; however, if you have signed a contract, paid rent in advance, paid a deposit (the usual indicators that you are serious!), it would be well-nigh impossible for anyone to deny you the tenancy on 1st Feb.

You should only be paying rent for the period from 1st Feb, of course, not from the signing date.

The crucial thing is to make sure you have had a chance to read the tenancy agreement carefully, ask for anything you don't understand to be explained (more and more TAs are in plain English now which is good, but ask all the same) and negotiate if possible about anything which isn't ideal from your perspective.

Good luck and enjoy your new home!

kestrel
25-01-2009, 09:21 AM
Sorry, didn't make it clear, I'm one of the joint LLs not the T. I definitely did read somewhere (NLA site I think) about some implications (problems) of signing before the commencement date, but I'm not a member there any longer so I cant check it.

Lawcruncher
25-01-2009, 09:22 AM
There is no reason for the tenancy to begin on the day the agreement is signed, though it must start within 21 years! A tenancy agreement (as opposed to a lease) is an executory agreement. As MTG suggests, the tenancy will not start until the start date specified in the agreement.

Quite apart from that, there is no reason why the agreement should not be signed by the parties on different days. It should not of course be dated until everyone has signed.

kestrel
25-01-2009, 10:18 AM
Many thanks for the replies. I'd never have thought otherwise but for this nagging memory of some warning. Whatever it was, I must have misconstrued it.

Preston
25-01-2009, 10:38 AM
Hi

It may be that what you were thinking of is that unless the tenancy is created by deed it will not take effect unless or until the tenant enters into possession. So, if this doesn't happen and there is no tenancy, you will be relying on the contract between you and the tenant for any remedies you may wish to pursue, without the "benefit" of a landlord and tenant relationship.

Deeds are relatively simple to do; essentially they must say they are such, be in writing and be witnessed. So it might be worth using using this form if you have any concerns.

Preston

jta
25-01-2009, 10:48 AM
There is no reason for the tenancy to begin on the day the agreement is signed, though it must start within 21 years!

21 years. Did you mean that or was it a typo'

Lawcruncher
25-01-2009, 12:33 PM
21 years. Did you mean that or was it a typo'

Section 149 (3) of the Law of Property Act 1925:

A term, at a rent or granted in consideration of a fine, limited after the commencement of this Act to take effect more than twenty-one years from the date of the instrument purporting to create it, shall be void, and any contract made after such commencement to create such a term shall likewise be void

jta
25-01-2009, 12:42 PM
Cor, well I'll go to the bottom of our stairs..........:p

mind the gap
25-01-2009, 12:47 PM
Cor, well I'll go to the bottom of our stairs..........:p

Just don't take 21 years over it.

And before you start, yes - I am! I am. It's my tea break. You would not believe some of the stuff I have had to take to the tip this morning. Son 2 has just lectured me on catharsis, but didn't offer to help.

jta
25-01-2009, 12:57 PM
Just don't take 21 years over it.
Son 2 has just lectured me on catharsis, but didn't offer to help.

I'll leave any comments on that to Rodent, he's much better than I (me).

mind the gap
25-01-2009, 13:16 PM
I'll leave any comments on that to Rodent, he's much better than I (me).

:confused: I am pretty broadminded, but I really cannot imagine what you mean!

Rodent1
25-01-2009, 13:22 PM
Just don't take 21 years over it.

And before you start, yes - I am! I am. It's my tea break. You would not believe some of the stuff I have had to take to the tip this morning. Son 2 has just lectured me on catharsis, but didn't offer to help.

To the tip ? ..WOT no ebay?

"catharsis" if one feels the need, then one should not be disturbed during this deeply emotional and personal period.

now that will zing over 99.9% heads !

The Rodent

mind the gap
25-01-2009, 13:38 PM
To the tip ? ..WOT no ebay?

"catharsis" if one feels the need, then one should not be disturbed during this deeply emotional and personal period.

now that will zing over 99.9% heads !

The Rodent

Tip? Well, re-cycling centre, but it takes longer to type. Believe me, not even you would want the rubbish I got rid of today Rodent, and some of it wouldn't even be postable, not even if I packed it with...well, let's not go there.


Catharsis? : the kind I was referring to is connected with Aristotlean tragic theory, so you're up the wrong tree there, both of you!:p

jeffrey
25-01-2009, 14:35 PM
Another problem about a letting that has a later start date: see s.4(1)(d) of Land Registration Act 2002, underlined below.
Note that a letting for less than a year is still capable of being a 'term of years'!

4. When title must be registered

(1) The requirement of registration applies on the occurrence of any of the following events:

(a) the transfer of a qualifying estate:
(i) for valuable or other consideration, by way of gift or in pursuance of an order of any court, or
(ii) by means of an assent (including a vesting assent);

(b) the transfer of an unregistered legal estate in land in circumstances where section 171A of the Housing Act 1985 (c. 68) applies (disposal by landlord which leads to a person no longer being a secure tenant);

(c) the grant out of a qualifying estate of an estate in land—
(i) for a term of years absolute of more than seven years from the date of the grant, and
(ii) for valuable or other consideration, by way of gift or in pursuance of an order of any court;

(d) the grant out of a qualifying estate of an estate in land for a term of years absolute to take effect in possession after the end of the period of three months beginning with the date of the grant;

(e) the grant of a lease in pursuance of Part 5 of the Housing Act 1985 (the right to buy) out of an unregistered legal estate in land;

(f) the grant of a lease out of an unregistered legal estate in land in such circumstances as are mentioned in paragraph (b);

(g) the creation of a protected first legal mortgage of a qualifying estate.


(2) For the purposes of subsection (1), a qualifying estate is an unregistered legal estate which is:

(a) a freehold estate in land, or

(b) a leasehold estate in land for a term which, at the time of the transfer, grant or creation, has more than seven years to run.

Lawcruncher
25-01-2009, 14:49 PM
(d) the grant out of a qualifying estate of an estate in land for a term of years absolute to take effect in possession after the end of the period of three months beginning with the date of the grant;

But is a tenancy agreement a grant? I think not. It is executory only.

Bel
25-01-2009, 18:11 PM
In response to OP; if you are signing 6 days before, I would still insist all money had been cleared into agents/ LL's account before signing and not just 'by the time the tenancy is due to commence'.