PDA

View Full Version : Shower/dishwasher/washing machine/drains problems



house275
24-01-2009, 13:10 PM
Hi all

We have just moved into a house
Rented via a letting agent (major chain)
We have the following issues can anyone advise if & what action we can take on each ?
Thank you in anticipation :)


1) Shower in ensuite water flow so poor barely washes the soap off your body (there is also a bath in the house but being on a water meter & three of us bathing daily is too expensive & not practical)

2) Dishwasher on inventory & included works fine then after cycle finishes the bottom of machine backs up with the soiled water ?

3) Washing machine has a constant nasty foul water smell,smells slighlty of burning in operation and is supposed to heat the water (cold feed only) but washes everything stone cold ?
Suspect drainage prob may be cause of dishwasher & poss one of washing machine probs

As we have newly moved in we wish to raise these issues quickly & in a correct manner to get them sorted asap
Any advice on wording please

mind the gap
24-01-2009, 13:35 PM
I think you are right to suspect a problem with the drains. If you think there is a blockage (which may only be partial, hence some water drains away but more hangs around; blocked solid material is smelling) first try to unblock it yourself using a plunger or a proprietary drain cleaning gel; if this makes no difference, ask the LL to have it checked. If the blockage is between the property and the mains drain in street, it's LL's repsponsibility (or yours, if it says that in your TA); otherwise, it's the utility provider's job to shift it.

The water pressure in the shower is another issue and I don't think you can legally force the LL to do anything about that. If you're used to a power shower then revert to an ordinary one, it can be a disappointment. If you plan to stay there more than a year or so, it might be worth negotiating with LL about getting a better one installed or trying to improve the water pressure.

If the washine machine is included on the inventory as being in working order, then inform the LL that it has developed a fault and ask for a repair.

I would put your concerns politely in writing (if agent is managing, write to/email agent in first instance, otherwise, just write direct to LL). Perhaps start with a reassurance that you are generally happy with the property but that you would appreciate it if he could give his urgent attention to the follwing issues which have become apparent since you moved in on (date). the just describe concisely the problems you've experienced, as you have done here. Ask him to contact you to discuss them, or to let you know as soon as he has organised for the repairs to be carried out. Keep copies of all correspondance.

house275
24-01-2009, 14:56 PM
Thank you for your fast reply

I have already tried 2 different sink unblocking products (not together I hasten to add)
To no effect

We cannot reach the drain as it has a cover on it that my husband cannot get to open

As we have JUST moved in surely we would n't be responsible for the drain issue ? or am I being naive :eek:


Shower we mentioned it verbally and landlord said to letting agent it never bothered him so tough !
If for example we installed a pump to increase pressure at our cost & then took it with us making good the pipe work ?
I assume we need landlord consent to do anything like that

Or should we get it done by a plumber & reverted afterwards without mentioning ?
Not wishing to be deceitful but but letting agent so far has been not very nice to me (sexist,patronising and rude)


Had we of known many things we should never have rented this house

If LL refuses to do anything re drains investigation were do we stand then ? and is there a reasonable time frame ?
I am incurring laundrette costs now

mind the gap
24-01-2009, 15:11 PM
Thank you for your fast reply

I have already tried 2 different sink unblocking products (not together I hasten to add)
To no effect

We cannot reach the drain as it has a cover on it that my husband cannot get to open

As we have JUST moved in surely we would n't be responsible for the drain issue ? or am I being naive :eek:


Shower we mentioned it verbally and landlord said to letting agent it never bothered him so tough !
If for example we installed a pump to increase pressure at our cost & then took it with us making good the pipe work ?
I assume we need landlord consent to do anything like that

Or should we get it done by a plumber & reverted afterwards without mentioning ?
Not wishing to be deceitful but but letting agent so far has been not very nice to me (sexist,patronising and rude)


Had we of known many things we should never have rented this house

If LL refuses to do anything re drains investigation were do we stand then ? and is there a reasonable time frame ?
I am incurring laundrette costs now

Sounds as if no-one has properly checked the property before you moved in. Not good.

I agree, you shouldn't be responsible for the unblocking of smelly drains so soon after moving in - that would be unreasonable even if TA normally requires you to keep drains clear (which it might).

If Ll does not act soon, advise him you will contact the EHO at the council who may require him to act. That should be a last resort, really, although I have a sinking feeling about this LL - he doesn't seem to be that bothered, does he? Give him a chance to remedy the faults, then if no action taken within 7 days, tell him you intend to contact the council about the drains. He may be in breach of contract for allowing drains to remain blocked and dirty water to be backing up into d/washer - gross.

If he does not repair dishwasher, arrange a repair or replacement yourself (if repair is uneconomic) and deduct cost from rent. Tell him you intend to do so.

Re shower - sorry, I don't know where you stand on upgrading it yourself. Perhaps someone else does?

house275
24-01-2009, 15:19 PM
Thank you for your help
So 7 days is acceptable time frame
I wasn't sure what was reasonable


The owner was in residence and left to go to Australia so is not bothered at all
Sadly it appears that he did not mantain the property/white goods very well & we are left to live in a manner he felt acceptable rather than a fit for purpose state

Big lesson learnt
I though we had renting sussed but I really picked a turkey this time
Still only 341 days and we can move out ! :p

(I am trying to be positive)

mind the gap
24-01-2009, 16:19 PM
If your tenancy agreement contains a break clause, you may be able to move out after 6months.

If not, and LL does not sort out the water supply to the property he is failing under his statutory duty under the Landlord and Tenant Act and can be prosecuted. The threat of this may make him more willing to agree an early surrender of the tenancy with you (just to get rid of you!). With luck it won't come to that, but keep the pressure up on the agent.

Rememebr the agent is working for the LL; nohe's not an impartial go-between so don't expect him always to be pulling in the same direction as you.

So :
Washing machine and drains/plumbing : you can, if nec, get these sorted yourself, if he does nothing, and deduct the cost from rent
Shower : see what others on the forum think is reasonable.

Don't despair!

Zoggthefantastic
25-01-2009, 01:14 AM
Hi I cant help you much with the legal stuff but on the plumbing front I might be able to help.

I'm guessing dishwasher, washing machine and sink are in reasonable proximity
I don't know the specifics of your drainage but it sounds a lot like a problem I had recently.

Dishwashers and washing machines have a pump to remove water from inside the machine. But this only gets it out of the drum or the resevoir, not down the drain, gravity does that bit. Both machines will have a flexy tube coming out of the back through which the 'grey' water drains. This will either go to its own trap(u-bend thing) or be spliced into the trap for the sink with a T- piece or possibly diswasher and washing machine share a trap and sink has its own whatever the setup it sounds like waste water is re- entering the washing machine. Despite what common sense might dictate, there is not a no-return valve.

Anyway to cut a long and boring story short the flexy pipe should be threaded through a u shaped bracket(every machine comes with one) and that should sit upright (creating a hump so the 'grey' water wont flow back up)and must be higher up than the point that the flexy hose enters the drainage system which must be above the trap.

It might just be a matter of flexy hose needing to be a bit higher up- easy fix. Or if someone has done a bodge job there might not be enough 'drop' in your drainage system. There must be enough height difference for gravity to remove the water It doesn't have to be much but it has to be enough- I have seen 'professional' plumbers get this wrong.

Also if flexy hose is spliced into sink trap with a T-piece, check it is the right way up i.e directs water from the flexy hose down the drain. Not from the sink down the flexy hose!


If you are having trouble picturing this try a bit of googling on fitting a dishwasher or a washing machine, that should bring up some diagrams.

I wouldn't have thought this would solve the problem of the washing machine not heating water, but if the drainage isn't right you could put a new machine in and it would have the same smelly water problem.

IMO it is the landlords responsibility to put any of this right.

good luck!

mind the gap
25-01-2009, 08:46 AM
Zogg - that's great - many thanks. So perhaps it's not as bad as we thought (ie blocked drains)? This is definitely something LL/agent should have sorted out when preparing the house for being tenanted.

:)Don't suppose you've any thoughts on the shower problem as well, have you?

pam1
25-01-2009, 10:47 AM
Just a few non technical housewife thoughts on the shower -
1. It could be a cheap, rubbish shower.
2. Take the shower head off - it should unscrew - and check if it's blocked up with limescale or something gungy.
3. If it's an electric shower, turn the heat down and the flow should increase.
4. Ask your Agents to send a plumber!

jeffrey
25-01-2009, 15:05 PM
Re drains: see s.11(1)(b) of LTA 1985, as follows:

SECTION 11
(1) Repairing obligations in short leases
In a lease to which this section applies (as to which, see sections 13 and 14) there is implied a covenant by the lessor—
(a) to keep in repair the structure and exterior of the dwelling-house (including drains, gutters and external pipes),

(b) to keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling-house for the supply of water, gas and electricity and for sanitation (including basins, sinks, baths and sanitary conveniences, but not other fixtures, fittings and appliances for making use of the supply of water, gas or electricity), and

(c) to keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling-house for space heating and heating water.

house275
25-01-2009, 18:49 PM
:eek: WOW thank you much for taking the time to share all the plumbing advice
I shall check that out tomorrow morning it sure makes sense

Am getting really fed up with re washing things
Can't believe the landlord was happy to live like it


Showers
I have descaled head
I have taken new shower head from friends house & tried it
No difference
Asked for a plumber who arrived scratched his head said your showers c*rap he suggested to LA installing a power shower for £750 ! obviously landlord said no
He made no others suggestions except installing new ?

It is water pressure it is a tank fed mixer shower doomed to be pant's I suspect

A friend has suggested either have the feed coming from the rising main ?
Does this make sense ?
Would this work ?
Or install a pump & take it out when we leave ?

We have a meeting with LA next Monday at the house so hoping to get it sorted then
They seem to feel I am creating things as I don't like the house but it's not true it's simply got lots wrong with it
I guess your LA is as much your friend as your bank manager !


This is such a helpful forum i'm so glad I found it
Thanks again will let you know if it's the pipes

house275
25-01-2009, 18:52 PM
Thank you for the clearer thread title :o

house275
25-01-2009, 22:45 PM
Have checked both machines
No standpipes

Have emailed letter to letting agent giving 7 days to provide a plumber to sort out
Hope this solves it
Look forward to washing/dishes that do not smell rank
Will let you know
Thanks again Zogg you are fantastic

Zoggthefantastic
25-01-2009, 23:11 PM
:)Don't suppose you've any thoughts on the shower problem as well, have you?

Only to agree with you that if you go from a power shower or even a non power shower that is fed by a modern combi boiler, back to a one that is fed from a hot water cylinder, it can feel quite lacklustre.

that said there may still be a problem.

http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=70976

This topic seems to cover off most things you can do to investigate the problem.
once again, good luck! to OP's

Mrs Jones
26-01-2009, 17:37 PM
non power shower that is fed by a modern combi boiler

when I had a combi boiler fitted, an "equaliser" had to be fitted so I could use a shower - it was brilliant - just like a power shower!

mind the gap
26-01-2009, 18:06 PM
when I had a combi boiler fitted, an "equaliser" had to be fitted so I could use a shower - it was brilliant - just like a power shower!

To what was it fitted - if that isn't too personal a question?!

house275
27-01-2009, 07:56 AM
Letting agent refuses to send a plumber until he has been himself
He is calling tomorrow morning

I have checked the AST document and there is no break clause in it
There is an early release from tenancy fee of £580 on landlords agreement

I guess that means that we are stuck here for the full 12 months ?
Its been a disaster so far

1) Proff converted garage marketed by letting agent as 4th bedroom/dining room actually un-useable as bedroom as its not been insulated properly,we can only use it as storage
2) Proff cleaning & carpet cleaning never happened (exiting owner had 5 cats ,2 kids & the place was filthy)
3) Ensuite shower unuseable we are all bathing daily & were on a water meter
4) Washing machine has stunk since we arrived I have been hand washing our clothes as its unuseable,Washing machine does not heat the water
5) Dishwaher backs up with soiled water & everything it washes smells of egg
6) Both outside lights not working
7)Water leak under sink husband had to fix
8) Scarily loose fitting in airing cupboard coming from hot water tank gets red hot & were worried it could come off



I would have thought we could withhold some rent ?
for non use of facilities ? we wouldnt have rented it with no shower
or false marketing ? we wouldnt have rented it and paid for 4 beds when we have a 3 bed with garage that has no up & over door
or move out preferably ?
Its making me feel really down now weve only been here 25 days and the letting agents have done nothing



Seriously could we leave ?
We are prepared to move again were so fed up its making us miserable ?
Any suggestions please I'm sat here in tears this morning

mind the gap
27-01-2009, 10:17 AM
Letting agent refuses to send a plumber until he has been himself
He is calling tomorrow morning

I have checked the AST document and there is no break clause in it
There is an early release from tenancy fee of £580 on landlords agreement

I guess that means that we are stuck here for the full 12 months ?
Its been a disaster so far

1) Proff converted garage marketed by letting agent as 4th bedroom/dining room actually un-useable as bedroom as its not been insulated properly,we can only use it as storage
2) Proff cleaning & carpet cleaning never happened (exiting owner had 5 cats ,2 kids & the place was filthy)
3) Ensuite shower unuseable we are all bathing daily & were on a water meter
4) Washing machine has stunk since we arrived I have been hand washing our clothes as its unuseable,Washing machine does not heat the water
5) Dishwaher backs up with soiled water & everything it washes smells of egg
6) Both outside lights not working
7)Water leak under sink husband had to fix
8) Scarily loose fitting in airing cupboard coming from hot water tank gets red hot & were worried it could come off



I would have thought we could withhold some rent ?
for non use of facilities ? we wouldnt have rented it with no shower
or false marketing ? we wouldnt have rented it and paid for 4 beds when we have a 3 bed with garage that has no up & over door
or move out preferably ?
Its making me feel really down now weve only been here 25 days and the letting agents have done nothing



Seriously could we leave ?
We are prepared to move again were so fed up its making us miserable ?
Any suggestions please I'm sat here in tears this morning

I'm sorry you feel so desperate. It does sound awful and you have my sympathy. Unfortunately I don't think you can just up and leave without penalty although I can fully understand why you would want to. Generally, properties have to be totally uninhabitable (e.g. badly damaged by fire/ smoke, or flooded, or badly infested with vermin), before you could justify that.

If you just moved out, LL could sue for all the rent owing until the end of the tenancy and a court may judge that you should have checked the condiiton of the installations, etc, before you agreed to take the property.

At least the Ll is coming round to see you about the problems. I think you need to make it really clear to him just how upset and at your wits' end you are with the whole situation. Having lived in the house quite happpily himself, he may not have any idea just how much standards for rented property have risen in recent years. Pin him down to a time scale by which the repairs will be effected and warn him that you have taken advice and that you will organise these repairs yourself and withold rent if he wastes any more time. Tell him that you want to know the dates he has arranges for tradesmen to come, by tomorrow evening at the latest or you will do it yourself.

Your other option is to try to negotiate a surrender - but this will presumably cost you £580 (it might be worth it?).

Good luck - let us know how it goes.

MrJohnnyB
27-01-2009, 10:39 AM
The landlord has the right to repair the items specified in what can be described as reasonable time. I think its only fair that the agent should be allowed to check the property to asses the nature of the repairs. If the landlord doesnt play ball then your next step could be to instigate court proceedings requiring them to enforce the repairing covenant or pay for the work and then claim this back through the courts.

Unfortunately with holding rent shouldnt really be an advised choice. If you do decide to with hold rent however, it has to be used to pay for the repair of the property - you cant simply with hold rent because you want to, if you decide to do this, make sure you get several quotes to cover your back - This should only be done if your landlord is non compliant and just flat out refuses to pay for repairs.

Mrs Jones
27-01-2009, 14:27 PM
To what was it fitted - if that isn't too personal a question?!

Well no, it wasn't fitted to me personally:D it was actually a gizmo (I think it is a little pump) fitted under the bath (the shower was in the bath) between the supply from the boiler and the shower.

house275
27-01-2009, 18:57 PM
So potentially we can have no washing machine,dishwasher or shower & we have no rights ?

We pay to have washing done whilst still paying for facilities ?

Surely that can't be right

mind the gap
27-01-2009, 18:59 PM
So potentially we can have no washing machine,dishwasher or shower & we have no rights ?

We pay to have washing done whilst still paying for facilities ?

Surely that can't be right

What did the letting agent say/promise when he came round today? Is he, in fact, being paid to manage the property by the LL?

house275
27-01-2009, 20:42 PM
He comes tomorrow 9.30am
Yes it is fully managed

We have found the problem quite unbelievable but true

Main kitchen sink wastes drain directly "DOWN" flexi pipe that removes waste from washing machine & dishwasher
They are filling up with the water we tip down the sink

So at least we can prove it by tipping tea down the sink in the morning and showing him where it comes out !

mind the gap
27-01-2009, 20:54 PM
He comes tomorrow 9.30am
Yes it is fully managed

We have found the problem quite unbelievable but true

Main kitchen sink wastes drain directly "DOWN" flexi pipe that removes waste from washing machine & dishwasher
They are filling up with the water we tip down the sink

So at least we can prove it by tipping tea down the sink in the morning and showing him where it comes out !

And if he doesn't believe you, invite him to put his head into the bottom of the dishwasher as you empty 3 gallons of grey waste from a greasy sink, left overnight to fester.

It is simple plumbing job to remedy this, so don't let him fob you off!

Rodent1
27-01-2009, 21:15 PM
1) Proff converted garage marketed by letting agent as 4th bedroom/dining room actually un-useable as bedroom as its not been insulated properly,we can only use it as storage

What makes you think this ?


2) Proff cleaning & carpet cleaning never happened (exiting owner had 5 cats ,2 kids & the place was filthy)

Negotiate with LA that you have done/will do - val £150



3) Ensuite shower unuseable we are all bathing daily & were on a water meter

If shower is turned to cold does pressure increase to an acceptable level ?
If so it sounds like one of the heater microswitches has failed (inside shower) these cost about a £5 and take around 5 mins to fit. Very common problem and usually happens when water pressure too low or drops.( altho cold showers are very good for you!!!!)



4) Washing machine has stunk since we arrived I have been hand washing our clothes as its unuseable,Washing machine does not heat the water
5) Dishwaher backs up with soiled water & everything it washes smells of egg

A simple hook on the underside of the worktop with the wm/dm pipes inserted will cure these problems; are you sure that they have not just become dislodged and fallen down (they need to be higher than water level in sink as previously stated)
Washing machine not heating ...not sure on this BUT if water pressure too low may have a safety switch to prevent heater activating ? anyone ?
If not, prob fairly simple for a wm bod to fix !
What are the taps like at the prop ...some areas experience particularly low pressure at peak times of the day (as well as pretty bad for the rest of the day) Local water co. is legally obliged to provide a min flow rate and pressure, which may be worth exploring if whole prop has low pressure.
You have checked that mains water stop cock is fully turned on ?



6) Both outside lights not working
Checked bulbs, fused spurs, internal switches, plugged in ?



7)Water leak under sink husband had to fix

Good man !



8) Scarily loose fitting in airing cupboard coming from hot water tank gets red hot & were worried it could come off

Plumbers opinion ?




I would have thought we could withhold some rent ?
for non use of facilities ? we wouldnt have rented it with no shower
or false marketing ?

If i were your LL i would take a VERY dim view of that ! these all seem to be very simple problems which are easily rectified!



we wouldnt have rented it and paid for 4 beds when we have a 3 bed with garage that has no up & over door
or move out preferably ?

See above



Its making me feel really down now weve only been here 25 days and the letting agents have done nothing

Agree, poor show on the agent, as a LL i have a very poor opinion of them as well ! Next time find a good LL and go direct, the buck stops "here"!





Seriously could we leave ?

Yes but could be expensive for you as you are in a contract !



We are prepared to move again were so fed up its making us miserable ?

Perspective required !
you will be laughing about it once it is all sorted out !



Any suggestions please I'm sat here in tears this morning

Yes, stop peeling onions and go and check the stopcock my lovely !

The Rodent

mind the gap
27-01-2009, 21:18 PM
Yes, stop peeling onions and go and check the stopcock my lovely !The Rodent

Rodent, ever thought of doing a Benny Hill tribute act...?:p

Rodent1
27-01-2009, 21:39 PM
Rodent, ever thought of doing a Benny Hill tribute act...?

Believe it or not i used to be a milkman (all thru college days)and yes i was the fastest in the west, i actually managed to put the milk float on its roof, 12doz eggs on pasenger seat, very messy biz it was !

De de did he, de de de :D

The Rodent

Mrs Jones
27-01-2009, 23:11 PM
He comes tomorrow 9.30am
Yes it is fully managed

We have found the problem quite unbelievable but true

Main kitchen sink wastes drain directly "DOWN" flexi pipe that removes waste from washing machine & dishwasher
They are filling up with the water we tip down the sink

So at least we can prove it by tipping tea down the sink in the morning and showing him where it comes out !

I had a similar problem with my flat - sink drained via u-bend to pipe down to drain - washing machine plumbed in to same pipe but with no u-bend - smelly - but not as awful as your problem.

And I don't think anyone is saying that you do not have any redress, it is just that actually withholding rent is not the way to go.

Rodent1
27-01-2009, 23:34 PM
Showers
I have descaled head
I have taken new shower head from friends house & tried it
No difference
Asked for a plumber who arrived scratched his head said your showers c*rap he suggested to LA installing a power shower for £750 ! obviously landlord said no
He made no others suggestions except installing new ?

It is water pressure it is a tank fed mixer shower doomed to be pant's I suspect

A friend has suggested either have the feed coming from the rising main ?
Does this make sense ?
Would this work ?
Or install a pump & take it out when we leave ?



Apologies missed this re: shower.
Advice given early was electric shower ..it sounds like you dont have one of them !

If tank already in situ - this could be a strong indicator of poor mains water pressure, suggest speak to neighbours to verify ?

If house is "old" can you see wether mains water is coming in on lead or alkalene (blue plastic pipe) ?

Need more info !

The Rodent

house275
28-01-2009, 17:15 PM
Don't want to get too ahead of ourselves just in case but !

LA was really nice about it all
Said he will fight our corner and insist it is all sorted
Aplogised and said it was unacceptable that we had been left in this state
Is even going to see what he can do legally if landlord is difficult

Plumber will sort the bizzare under sink arrangements (LA suspects self done by LL or relative)
Plumber will also be instructed to sort shower by replacing totally or installing pump

Agreed that they had marketed in good faith but that the conversion was not insulated (he could tell the second he walked in the room its that bloomin cold) said he would not market it as a bedroom next time


Like I say trying not to get too excited but I do feel vindicated after he made me feel like a serial complainer last week
But as I was dreading it ,I was proved wrong,the real shame is he didn't come the first week I complained back in the new year but hey ho
I will let you know


Now dreaming of timotei type moment with cascading water :rolleyes:

house275
02-03-2009, 08:58 AM
Well on 28th Jan I posted that
Plumber is due TODAY 2nd of faffing March Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :mad:
First job of the day they said !

8.58am and not too hopeful

house275
02-03-2009, 09:07 AM
IF he comes today

Do you think it would be reasonable to ask for a reduction for non use of services ?
We have had no shower for 60 days
We pay to rent a house with a shower ?

would this be reasonable ?
bearing in mind just how patient we have been and how inconvenienced we have been

I suspect you will say no :(

house275
02-03-2009, 12:47 PM
GOD GIVE ME STRENGTH arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Plumber arrives 2 hours late
Plumber says no can't do it
He was told by LA that is was "replacement of existing pump" to shower
It is not it is a fresh installation as no pump present

Hes not got time for it today as its not the job he quoted for

Fair enough

Gleaned interesting info from him he had quoted £199 for replace pump,then re quoted on phone £400 for new install
LA agreed to the £400 but wanted him to split bill into two under £250 each ?

Ok except hes to busy & can't do it for weeks !

Rent happens to be due today so I rang the other plumber who had also quoted just under £400 for fresh install
He can do it this Thursday


So its within the price they were paying
He is happy to provide two invoices (not sure why they want it that way)

Are we now after 2 months of being messed about allowed to instruct our own plumber & take off rent ?


Answer needed today please
We really dont want any legal probs but feel we have been more than patient



(timotei moment will just have to wait sigh) :cool:

mind the gap
02-03-2009, 12:53 PM
Are we now after 2 months of being messed about allowed to instruct our own plumber & take off rent ?

I'm going to stick my neck out and say 'yes', as long as you have advised the Landlord in advance of what you intend to do and give him the option again of paying for it himself e.g. will the plumber want paying on the day - or would he be happy to supply an invoice? Ask him to make invoice out to LL and submit - only consider paying it yourself out of rent if LL refuses to pay it himself.

Rodent1
02-03-2009, 13:33 PM
I'm going to stick my neck out and say 'yes', as long as you have advised the Landlord in advance of what you intend to do and give him the option again of paying for it himself e.g. will the plumber want paying on the day - or would he be happy to supply an invoice? Ask him to make invoice out to LL and submit - only consider paying it yourself out of rent if LL refuses to pay it himself.

ONLY do this with LL permission as contract will between you and plumber NOT LL and plumber - leaving you liable for bill.

house275
02-03-2009, 13:34 PM
ok

But rent due to be transfered today so I have told them that I want it in writing today

house275
02-03-2009, 15:17 PM
Husband spoke to LA
Said he wanted it in writing today that LA will authorise alternative plumber on same terms as the LA's plumber

LA said no and said that if we withheld rent our world would fall around us like a ton of bricks ? shouted something about landlords insurance,and we had no rights
He has said he is going to ring back

All we have done is change the physical plumber,not the rate or work detail

I dont know what to do about the rent now,is he jut bluffing trying to put the wind up us ?
Surely we must have some rights here
:(

mind the gap
02-03-2009, 15:27 PM
Husband spoke to LA
Said he wanted it in writing today that LA will authorise alternative plumber on same terms as the LA's plumber

LA said no and said that if we withheld rent our world would fall around us like a ton of bricks ? shouted something about landlords insurance,and we had no rights
He has said he is going to ring back

All we have done is change the physical plumber,not the rate or work detail

I dont know what to do about the rent now,is he jut bluffing trying to put the wind up us ?
Surely we must have some rights here
:(

The first plumber is probably LA's mate and he will be getting a rake-off.

I think you have had to wait an unreasonably long time for these repairs and it is unreasonable for you to wait any longer.

I would tell the LA that given all this nonsense and all these delays, you will instruct plumber yourself and pay for work; if LL does not reimburse you, you will deduct cost from your next rent payment.

Tell him it is not good enough that the plumber he wants to use can only do the job in several weeks' time - this could run into months.

The worst that can happen is that LL can try to evict you (sounds as if you would be quite glad!) on the grounds of rent arrears - but it won't happen unless the arrears reaches two months' worth.

Normally I would not advise witholding rent, but I think you are caught between a rock and a hard place. Your only other option is to tell LA that you intned to sue LL for failure to effect repairs (and you can do this, but it may take months).

house275
02-03-2009, 17:42 PM
cant afford to pay rent & plumber

mind the gap
02-03-2009, 18:23 PM
cant afford to pay rent & plumber

I would ring LA once more tomorrow morning giving him a final opportunity to instruct and pay for plumber who can do it on Thursday. If he says no, tell him that you will inform the LL that he (A) is being obstructive for no good reason and that you have waited long enough without a shower. Mention that you have been advised that you could claim against the LL for the two months in which so much has been wrong with the property.

Then go ahead and instruct; if plumber will not invoice LL directly, then pay it and take it out of rent until LL reimburses you. Make it clear to LL that you are willing to pay the rent once he pays you for the plumber's work.

Good luck. Technically you will be in breach of contract, but he would have to sue you to get it back then you could counterclaim for disrepair and he would probably end up worse off. You have probably resigned yourself already to not getting a reference from this man, so in some ways you have little to lose.

house275
02-03-2009, 20:25 PM
Hes just being a pain

were offering exactly what he had arranged to do but within a quicker time scale I don't get what his issue is

His final words we will be hearing from him whatever that means

I shall leave the plumber booked for Thursday but husband has said hold off on paying rent until tomorrow
I can do it as a faster payment and it will clear instantly all be it 1 day late
We are hoping LA will come back & be more reasonable in the morning

And no we wouldn't be sad to leave
We don't care for nor need his reference

And to add insult to injury husband has been told he will be laid off at end of month
So poor LA will have a fit :D as we shall have to claim housing benefit until he gets work
First time either of us has been unemployed since leaving school (some decades ago) the worlds a scarey place at the moment

house275
05-03-2009, 15:05 PM
:D


Finally
PLumber has just left all work is now done & LA agreed (only after we witheld rent now 2 days late) to do it all and be billed himself

I am just going online to pay LA this months rent in full

THANK YOU THANK YOU all it gave me the confidence to push
Off to shower for as long as my skin will bear LOL