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lulub
22-01-2009, 15:51 PM
Hi all

I just have a question re tenancy deposit schemes. I moved into my house in Jan 08, and have found out recently that our landlord didn't put our deposit into a scheme until Oct 08, as far as I know, it should have been put in within 14 days of us moving into the property, is that correct? Coincidentally when I asked him for the certificate (around October time) it seems that he suddenly remembered to put it in a scheme!

On another note - our tenancy agreement ended on 20 Jan 09, but we have agreed with our landlord we can stay on until 24th Jan as it's the nearest Saturday afterwards. LL has mentioned about paying rent for the extra 4 days, but hasn't pursued it. Now on 1 Jan our shower broke (we have an en-suite shower so can use that, but as it's an en-suite it's really not practical to use it all the time), and it's still not fixed. If LL asks for the extra 4 days rent would it be reasonable to say that we're not paying it because we haven't had a shower for 3 weeks, or would we have to pay up? And if we didn't pay, would he be able to legally take it out of our deposits?

With all of the above, if we don't pay the extra 4 days rent and he threatens to take it out of our deposit, would telling him that he broke the law for 10 months by not putting our deposit into a scheme, be a good negotiating tool do you think?

Hope that all makes sense! thanks

mind the gap
22-01-2009, 15:58 PM
Hi all

I just have a question re tenancy deposit schemes. I moved into my house in Jan 08, and have found out recently that our landlord didn't put our deposit into a scheme until Oct 08, as far as I know, it should have been put in within 14 days of us moving into the property, is that correct? Coincidentally when I asked him for the certificate (around October time) it seems that he suddenly remembered to put it in a scheme!

On another note - our tenancy agreement ended on 20 Jan 09, but we have agreed with our landlord we can stay on until 24th Jan as it's the nearest Saturday afterwards. LL has mentioned about paying rent for the extra 4 days, but hasn't pursued it. Now on 1 Jan our shower broke (we have an en-suite shower so can use that, but as it's an en-suite it's really not practical to use it all the time), and it's still not fixed. If LL asks for the extra 4 days rent would it be reasonable to say that we're not paying it because we haven't had a shower for 3 weeks, or would we have to pay up? And if we didn't pay, would he be able to legally take it out of our deposits?

With all of the above, if we don't pay the extra 4 days rent and he threatens to take it out of our deposit, would telling him that he broke the law for 10 months by not putting our deposit into a scheme, be a good negotiating tool do you think?

Hope that all makes sense! thanks

I think you are being a tad unreasonable. You have the use of an alternative shower - it's not as though you cannot shower at all; the LL did protect your deposit eventually and trying to sue him for late compliance is very unlikely to succeed; and he has allowed you to stay on and not (yet) asked for any rent.

I would just go quietly on Saturday and if you disagree with any of the deductions he proposes to make from your deposit, you will have to take it up with the scheme adjudicator.

If you threaten to sue him over the deposit, you will lose any goodwill you may have built up - and he will no doubt produce a long list of deductions which he might have 'let pass' before.

Be reasonable.

Paul Gibbs
22-01-2009, 16:02 PM
I am aware that the 3x deposit argument is dealt with differently by many judges - if the LL has now insured it you may not get the award, or you might do so - it really does depend on the judge!

Regarding the extra 4 days I suppose the question is what sort of figures are you looking at - 4 days rent is unlikely to be loads and is it worth ruining what may or may not be a good reference? Pester your landlord further to repair the shower?

lulub
22-01-2009, 16:03 PM
Hi Mindthegap

I don't think we're being unreasonable - the en-suite shower, although it "works" (i.e water comes out) the hot water doesn't work, so it's cold showers or nothing...? Does that change things?

we'll see what he says on Saturday after the inspection anyway.

lulub
22-01-2009, 16:05 PM
Thanks Paul - we have chased him a couple of times. He says it's being done today, which means we can't use it before we move out on Saturday (takes 2 days to dry as it needs to be re-tiled).

Re the extra 4 days, it's approx £100, which I don't think is cheap (another reason I'm moving out!).

mind the gap
22-01-2009, 16:14 PM
Hi Mindthegap

I don't think we're being unreasonable - the en-suite shower, although it "works" (i.e water comes out) the hot water doesn't work, so it's cold showers or nothing...? Does that change things?

we'll see what he says on Saturday after the inspection anyway.

Do you have no running hot water at all in the property then?

lulub
22-01-2009, 16:17 PM
We have hot water in the sink dowstairs (to wash up dishes etc), but not in the en-suite.

mind the gap
22-01-2009, 16:26 PM
We have hot water in the sink dowstairs (to wash up dishes etc), but not in the en-suite.

OK, I agree that's not ideal and that it's unreasonable of the LL to have left you without the means of showering (or bathing) for 3 weeks.

Unfortunately.. that, in itself, although unreasonable, is not sufficient grounds for you legally to withold rent, which is what you seem to want to do - although, as you say, he hasn't asked for it again.

He may, of course, be planning to claim it from your deposit.

You have a choice: you can pretend you're in the 1940s and wash using basins of water from your kitchen tap - wartime spirit and all that - it's only 2 days now, isn't it? Stay cheerful, don't moan. Don't mention the rent and hope LL doesn't either.

or...you could kick up a big fuss, throw yourself about over the shower and the late protection of your deposit...resign yourself to being stung for the extra rent, risk your reference (as Paul says), and any goodwill. For what?:)

lulub
22-01-2009, 16:42 PM
We aren't technically witholding rent - we asked him when he would like us to pay it (ie with our last month's rent payment or in a separate payment) and he never responded!

Is he allowed to take 4 days rent out of the deposit?

mind the gap
22-01-2009, 16:51 PM
We aren't technically witholding rent - we asked him when he would like us to pay it (ie with our last month's rent payment or in a separate payment) and he never responded!
You (twice mentioned) the possibility of not paying the four days rent in your first post - that's the same as witholding it


Is he allowed to take 4 days rent out of the deposit?

Yes, in a word. But the scheme adjudicator may take into consideration his inaction over the shower - I'm not sure. If you google the TDS disputes service, they detail some interesting cases of actual disputes and how they were resolved. It will give you an idea of what kind of line the adjudicators may take.

Good luck.

johnboy
22-01-2009, 17:20 PM
If it alls gets nasty unless you have it in writing about only staying 4 days extra surely the L/L could say the tenancy is now periodic and you are reponsable for the the whole month.

Just a thought

lulub
22-01-2009, 17:28 PM
extra 4 days is all in writing, so assume that's all ok. We'll just have a friendly chat with him on sat when he does the inspection and see what he says.

julie798
23-01-2009, 00:07 AM
Glad your not my tenant, why do people have to be continually on the take :eek:

lulub
23-01-2009, 09:24 AM
julie798, how are we continually on the take? We haven't had hot water (to bathe in) for 3 weeks now, do you think that's acceptable?

LL asked us (not the other way round!) to stay on for extra 4 days, and we are quite prepared to pay for the extra 4 days, I was simply asking if he could legally take it out of our deposit if we refused to pay it due to the fact we haven't had hot water for 3 weeks...

SALL
23-01-2009, 09:45 AM
julie798, how are we continually on the take? We haven't had hot water (to bathe in) for 3 weeks now, do you think that's acceptable?

LL asked us (not the other way round!) to stay on for extra 4 days, and we are quite prepared to pay for the extra 4 days, I was simply asking if he could legally take it out of our deposit if we refused to pay it due to the fact we haven't had hot water for 3 weeks...

I understand where u coming from. But also look at it from the LL's side, repairs like that can sometime take time.
It just seems that sometimes people expect a lot more from a LL, but would put up with things if it was their property and they were responsible for the repairs.
How about offering the LL that you will meet him half way and pay for 2 days rent. If he is a decent LL he will accept that.

lulub
23-01-2009, 09:50 AM
That's what we're thinking too SALL - will suggest that to him tomorrow.

To be honest, it's not the LL's fault, we've since found out (as it's now been fixed but we can't use shower before we move out as the grouting isn't dry), that it was the plumber dragging his heels as he had the parts for a while before coming round to fix it!