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View Full Version : Tenant in arrears; his friend threatened neighbour -help!



356driver
17-01-2009, 14:51 PM
hi all..
my first post here and i hope you can help. Firstly i have read through the various s21 and s8 posts but want to clarify my position within its own relevance.
My tenants' initial 6 month ast ran out on 3rd Jan..he only paid 1 out of 5 (after initial month+deposit) on time and was clearly not bothered when his payments where late which meant he never rang to let me know and that i had to chase him up all the time and get to the bank myself!
Haven't had 3rd Jan payment at all yet and when i did finally get hold of him he just said he hasn't got it and i'll get it with Feb payment which i don't believe will happen.
Also received call from environmental health as 2 neighbours have made complaints about him and his girlfriend. Constant arguing in house and street,tv/stereo/gaming noise. Police have been called out several times which i've found out since and that his girlfriend threatened to smash the neighbours face in if she calls police again! (g/f isn't a tenant) neighbour now using recording equipment supplied by council for noise levels.

Shall i just serve s21 and hope he'll move out..will i have to date it for 2nd April?

if he doesn't leave what happens then?

Under section 8 i have disturbance grounds obviously and if the feb rent doesn't appear that will strengthen my case for 2 months unpaid but will i be able to claim back unpaid rent and court costs from him?

What about his deposit which is protected..can i keep it if no rent received still?

I was supposed to have met him at the house today but he said he's ill and fobbed me off (again) until next week..he never lets me in to the house when i go..and i wanted to do an inspection.
thanks in advance..
Brett

mind the gap
17-01-2009, 17:29 PM
They sound delightful.

Serve both: section 21 now (giving mandatory possession after expiry of AST; it can be followed up with an accelerated possession order if T refuses to leave), and a section 8, grounds 10 and 11 and 14, although these are only discretionary. Add ground 8 (mandatory), with an application for him to be ordered to repay the debt, as soon as T owes you an amount equal to two full months' rent. Two weeks' notice.

Then, if the ground 8 fails because he tops up the rent before the hearing and judge is sympathetic to him, the section 21 is still in place.

If you don't mind waiting until the section 21 expires, that would be a cheaper process, but you are losing more rent in the meantime. So I'd go for section 8.

The fact that Ts have behaved anti-socially and police have been called, etc, will stengthen your case (should you need it strengthened!). Keep a written record of all such disturbances, with taped evidence if that exists, and make sure all possession notices are correctly served or you may end up back at sqaure one on technicality, which is an expensive and time-consuming bore.

You may well be able to reclaim some of what he owes from his deposit, but that won't be released until the tenancy is ended - and you may need to keep that for any damage he does. Dispute its release to T, obviously.

Good luck.

356driver
18-01-2009, 21:41 PM
hi mind the gap..
thanks for your reply..that sounds spot on advice,..i've never had these issues before so appreciate you taking time to answer..

am i correct my section 21 would need served by 2nd feb for posession on 2nd April
? i know it needs to be precise obviously..

i'm not sure how to start court proceedings in respect of the s8..??

regards
Brett

mind the gap
18-01-2009, 23:22 PM
hi mind the gap..
thanks for your reply..that sounds spot on advice,..i've never had these issues before so appreciate you taking time to answer..

am i correct my section 21 would need served by 2nd feb for posession on 2nd April
? i know it needs to be precise obviously..

i'm not sure how to start court proceedings in respect of the s8..??

regards
Brett

Serve the section 21 immediately, then it's done, but yes, he needs at least two full months' notice for that one.

To serve the section 21 or the section 8 notice, use the notices available free for the 'Agreements' section of LLZ, citing the relevant grounds for the section 8 notice.

Because you are citing ground 14 (disturbance), you could start proceedings as soon as you have served notice, although as ground 8 is mandatory, I'd be tempted to wait for that one. Other members may have views on that?

I'm not an expert in this, but this site explains the procedure ofor applying for a court order:

http://www.desktoplawyer.co.uk/dt/browse/law/index.cfm?fs=cinc&fn=lga&sid=76014&aid=35539&CFID=804806&CFTOKEN=ed6df69661444468-EC0F75C5-17A4-F724-4F4DE54438D2608A&s=p&id=66D7DB

It would also be useful to use the search function on LLZ for 'section 8 court orders' - lots of people have posted info based on direct experience of the process.

Paul Gibbs
19-01-2009, 11:06 AM
add a saving provision to the s21 notice - covers you if you get the dates wrong!

356driver
19-01-2009, 13:26 PM
sorry Paul..can you explain that 'saving provision' to me.
thanks.

jeffrey
19-01-2009, 13:38 PM
sorry Paul..can you explain that 'saving provision' to me.
thanks.
Extra wording, to guard against wrong date being inserted in the s.21 Notice. Search LZ under "section 21" for wording concerned.

356driver
20-01-2009, 13:02 PM
just one or two further questions please in respect of my tenancy agreement..
contained in it are a couple of points i need clarifying:

my section 4 point 6 states: 'The landlord may re-enter the property and immediately therupon the tenancy shall absolutely determine without prejudice to other rights and remedies of the landlord if the tenant has not complied with any obligation in this agreement or should the rent be in arrears by more than 14 days whether formally demanded or not'.

wondered what that means exactly?! especially the arrears of 14 days..

also my agreement states:

'The Parties Agree: .. a)Notice is hereby given that possession may be recovered under ground 1,schedule 2 of the housing act 1988 if applicable.That is, that the landlord or any one of them if there are joint landlords,used to live in the property as his/her main home or intends to occupy the property as his/her only or main home'.

Well, my wife and i have seperated recently and one of us could need to move back in to the house and we did for a couple of months live there previously.

Does that mean i still need s21 and 2 months notice on either of the above?

also is it worth me writing to tenant about the rent arrears so if it goes to court i have some other documentation?

many thanks..

jeffrey
20-01-2009, 13:12 PM
my section 4 point 6 states: 'The landlord may re-enter the property and immediately therupon the tenancy shall absolutely determine without prejudice to other rights and remedies of the landlord if the tenant has not complied with any obligation in this agreement or should the rent be in arrears by more than 14 days whether formally demanded or not'.

wondered what that means exactly?! especially the arrears of 14 days..
It's only a Proviso for Re-entry. It has to be there, to make the AST work, but it's virtually impossible to enforce literally.



'The Parties Agree: .. a)Notice is hereby given that possession may be recovered under ground 1,schedule 2 of the housing act 1988 if applicable.That is, that the landlord or any one of them if there are joint landlords,used to live in the property as his/her main home or intends to occupy the property as his/her only or main home'.

Well, my wife and i have seperated recently and one of us could need to move back in to the house and we did for a couple of months live there previously.
If both you + wife (or either one of you) previously owner-occupied, ground 1 entitles you to use the s.8 procedure (but not during a fixed term, only afterwards during a statutory periodic tenancy continuation).

356driver
20-01-2009, 13:17 PM
interesting..thanks Jeffrey, my wife and i did live there but only for a couple of months if that..and we are in a st. periodic tenancy now with this tenant.