Copyright- using another agent's photographs?

[potnewagent]

Hi all,

Do you think it is acceptable to use other letting agents photos, eg. I see a client that has a rental property and it has been on before, I take the pictures from rightmove archives, am I breaching any copy right????

Is this common practice?

Do you do this?

I know we did this when I was in sales.


What do you think?

Many Thanks

[sharemaster2]

You had said that you did it at SALES, can you say what has now changed. As I see it, I think companies are too busy trying to close sale and rental deals rather than chasing some one uisng some picture on line.

Personaly, if it worked for in the past in sales, so should it be this time around. Well, that is only my opinion.

Goodluck

[Paul_f]

Other agents' photos are copyright so don't use them!

[potnewagent]

glad i checked, thanks for that, wasn't 100%


regards

[Sportingdad]

Other agents' photos are copyright so don't use them!

:o I can now see why you failed as an Agent and became a trainer.

This is normal practice, troll through the main property portals and you will see duplicated photos everywhere.

I imagine it started off a removal van parked in front a bungalow, or when the initial "measure up" was being undertaken the heavens opened, but as a real agent you will have access to the archives of these portals and may find over the years the same property/block of flats has been marketed by numerous agents so the majority of agents acquire them this way.

In the real world and on the other side I have over the years found a dozen of my Agencies properties (just to pad out a newbie agents books) listed on other actual websites, the annoying thing is I actually owned 5 of these, so normal practice is a polite letter to Agent advising them to remove offending property or you will sue (cc to OEA and ARLA if applicable), most times this is removed from site, but I have never seen a reply from the other Agent or indeed OEA or ARLA, twice this has progressed to Solicitors (£120 a letter) and then the photo's & my description have then been removed. So the bottom line in the REAL world of Agencies is it happens all the time-move on

[Paul_f]

:o I can now see why you failed as an Agent and became a trainer.What makes you think I 'failed'?

[Sportingdad]

We spoke some years ago, about your article regarding not taking deposits in letting update magazine I tracked you down and although you stated that companies were at the time were covering this you could not supply me with the name, and when I asked as a agent to agent how many properties you actually managed it was three. You may recall the call I have a distinctive North American accent.

[Preston]

:o I can now see why you failed as an Agent and became a trainer.

This is normal practice, troll through the main property portals and you will see duplicated photos everywhere.

I imagine it started off a removal van parked in front a bungalow, or when the initial "measure up" was being undertaken the heavens opened, but as a real agent you will have access to the archives of these portals and may find over the years the same property/block of flats has been marketed by numerous agents so the majority of agents acquire them this way.

In the real world and on the other side I have over the years found a dozen of my Agencies properties (just to pad out a newbie agents books) listed on other actual websites, the annoying thing is I actually owned 5 of these, so normal practice is a polite letter to Agent advising them to remove offending property or you will sue (cc to OEA and ARLA if applicable), most times this is removed from site, but I have never seen a reply from the other Agent or indeed OEA or ARLA, twice this has progressed to Solicitors (£120 a letter) and then the photo's & my description have then been removed. So the bottom line in the REAL world of Agencies is it happens all the time-move on


Hi

Sorry, does this mean it is or isn't a breach of copyright?

Preston

[Sportingdad]

Yes it is breach of copyright, but it as commonplace as travelling 71mph or more on a motorway.

[jeffrey]

So who is the copyright holder: photographer, Agent, or house-owner?

[Sportingdad]

Could be all, but will assume 1 photographer/agent , can you tell us Jeffrey ? because if you don't know, I will never leave my warm office again to take a photo !

[jeffrey]

Could be all, but will assume 1 photographer/agent , can you tell us Jeffrey ? because if you don't know, I will never leave my warm office again to take a photo !
WARNING: I do not deal with copyright law ("Intellectual property").
Subject to that:
a. the phootographer has copyright initially;
b. the Agent as client probably also has it; and
c. since it's for the benefit of the house-owner, who is ultimately paying for the service, he/she must logically have at least the right to benefit from it. I have no idea if either of them (Agent/Owner) could restrain unlawful copying, but surely the photographer could.

[Sportingdad]

Just roughly what I thought.

Also with the legal costs/time involved and the chances of recovery, there are more profitable areas to follow than hounding a fellow agent, for what he/she will say was an admin slip up by a junior member of staff who has been disciplined.

[Paul_f]

We spoke some years ago, about your article regarding not taking deposits in letting update magazine I tracked you down and although you stated that companies were at the time were covering this you could not supply me with the name, and when I asked as a agent to agent how many properties you actually managed it was three. You may recall the call I have a distinctive North American accent.Ah! I see. That was not by accident but by design. I was deliberately running down my portfolio at the time. Having spent 37 years at the sharp end I wanted to do something else. Having been in business as a self-employed estate agent and letting agent for all those years, plus owning an insurance broking business for 25 years too, your perception that I somehow "failed" required a response.

[agent46]

WARNING: I do not deal with copyright law ("Intellectual property").
Subject to that:
a. the phootographer has copyright initially;
b. the Agent as client probably also has it; and
c. since it's for the benefit of the house-owner, who is ultimately paying for the service, he/she must logically have at least the right to benefit from it. I have no idea if either of them (Agent/Owner) could restrain unlawful copying, but surely the photographer could.

I think none of the above. IIRC, the portal which hosts the listing owns the copyright - I'm pretty sure it is one of the terms of their contract with the agents.

However, I don't deal with IP law either, so whether that contractual term is of any effect is beyond my ken.

[jeffrey]

I think none of the above. IIRC, the portal which hosts the listing owns the copyright - I'm pretty sure it is one of the terms of their contract with the agents.
OK. If that's so, it means merely that the Agents assign their copyright to 'the portal' [really, that has no legal existence- there must be a legal party capable of receiving an Assignment!]

[agent46]

OK. If that's so, it means merely that the Agents assign their copyright to 'the portal' [really, that has no legal existence- there must be a legal party capable of receiving an Assignment!]

"Portal" is just shorthand for the company (or, less likely, sole proprietor, partnership or unincorporated association*) who own or operate the portal.



* The NAEA operate a listing site, do they not, and they're probably an unincorporated association (like a club or society). As an side, because UAs as do not have legal personality (a separate legal existence), there is actually quite a bit of rather geeky jurisprudence surrounding exactly how UAs own property and in what manner the assets should be distributed when such organisations are wound up. If anyone is ever suffering from insomnia, it's definitely worth a look.

[agent46]

IAs others have mentioned, it does happen (normally the weather when you were out or a van (if you look at my website you can see some very artfully taken shots that exclude the van or car parked in front)

SPAM!

Reported to the mods. ;)

[johnboy]

Ah! I see. That was not by accident but by design. I was deliberately running down my portfolio at the time. Having spent 37 years at the sharp end I wanted to do something else. Having been in business as a self-employed estate agent and letting agent for all those years, plus owning an insurance broking business for 25 years too, your perception that I somehow "failed" required a response.

In my experience Letting Agents sell their portfolio not run it down. Thats like have a car you dont want any more and then driving it round in circles until it falls to bits when it has a value. Why???

[mind the gap]

Aghhhh! Just checked my profile - still have a no longer used website listed there (funnily enough, I was using googles webmaster tools for my current website and it reports where links are coming from - one was obviously from a forum where I used the moniker Wickerman. I couldn't work out which site it was.

Anyway, the link to my website has now been removed from my profile. It would have returned a 404 error as I have not renewed the domain (I may well do that - I have 90 days to decide if I pay them the money for another year before my data is deleted).

Wickerman, you are gibbering, I'm afraid ;) Don't worry! You don't need to explain or justify your ether-based pecadilloes to us! We are your friends here. Just stop talking in that funny voice.

Throw your computer manuals - perhaps even the computer itself - out of the window and go and have a pint.

[agent46]

Wickerman, you are gibbering, I'm afraid. Don't worry! You don't need to explain or justify your ether-based pecadilloes to us! We are your friends here. Just stop talking in that funny voice.


He sounds exactly like guilty people do on Police interview tapes. Just what exactly are you covering up Mr Wickerman? ;)

[Paul_f]

In my experience Letting Agents sell their portfolio not run it down. Thats like have a car you dont want any more and then driving it round in circles until it falls to bits when it has a value. Why???Actually I gave it away! I'm a generous fellow.

[johnboy]

Actually I gave it away! I'm a generous fellow.

Ah i misunderstood i thought you were running it down.

[agent46]

Actually I gave it away! I'm a generous fellow.

Who was the beneficiary of your largesse?

[Paul_f]

It's all getting a bit silly, and it's not really worth the effort to explain all.

[agent46]

It's all getting a bit silly, and it's not really worth the effort to explain all.

It's not silly to ask, whereas it does seem rather silly to spend years building a business, only to give it all away. :confused:

[mind the gap]

It's not silly to ask, whereas it does seem rather silly to spend years building a business, only to give it all away. :confused:

Perhaps he had a 'Paul on the road to Damascus' moment?

[agent46]

Perhaps he had a 'Paul on the road to Damascus' moment?

Wasn't "Paul" "Saul" up to that point, and only changed his name later, by which time he probably would have been recovering in the Damascus Eye Clinic?

Also, Saul went from being a nasty man to being a good man, whereas Paul_F seems to have travelled in the opposite moral direction from being an Estate Agent (boo! hiss!) to giving it all away in order to allow himself to concentrate on being an free of charge online legal guru (hurrah!).

[mind the gap]

Also, Saul went from being a nasty man to being a good man, whereas Paul_F seems to have travelled in the opposite moral direction from being an Estate Agent (boo! hiss!) to giving it all away in order to allow himself to concentrate on being an free of charge online legal guru (hurrah!).

:confused:That doesn't quite makes sense ; the use of 'whereas' implies an inversion or contrary, yet you say Paul too has gone from bad to good (like Saul).

PS I used 'Paul' rather than Saul because his name is Paul and ...oh, you know what I meant!

[agent46]

That doesn't quite makes sense ; the use of 'whereas' implies an inversion or contrary, yet you say Paul too has gone from bad to good (like Saul).

PS I used 'Paul' rather than Saul because his name is Paul and ...oh, you know what I meant!

Sorry, you're absolutely right - I don't quite know what I was thinking. My excuse is that I have a migraine coming on and in those situations my brain doesn't work properly and I really need to take a tablet and go for a lie down instead of posting stuff on t'internet. Paul_F it turns out, is like St Paul after all, but wearing (probably) an M&S blazer and slacks ensemble instead of a woollen robe. :o

In case you're wondering about my other post, the point I was making is that "Pau/Saul" would never have been "Paul on the road to Damascus" because while he was on the road, he was still named "Saul". He only became "Paul" later on, by which time he was no longer (I assume) on the road.

[mind the gap]

Sorry, you're absolutely right - I don't quite know what I was thinking. My excuse is that I have a migraine coming on and in those situations my brain doesn't work properly and I really need to take a tablet and go for a lie down instead of posting stuff on t'internet. Paul_F it turns out, is like St Paul after all, but wearing (probably) an M&S blazer and slacks ensemble instead of a woollen robe. :o

In case you're wondering about my other post, the point I was making is that "Pau/Saul" would never have been "Paul on the road to Damascus" because while he was on the road, he was still named "Saul". He only became "Paul" later on, by which time he was no longer (I assume) on the road.

Yes, yes, I think we've established that....(tearing out hair).

Paul f, have you ever been 'on the road' in any sense (other than the ususal boring stuff like going to work in your car?) I mean, really 'on the road' - wind in your hair, following the band and all that?

[agent46]

Paul f, have you ever been 'on the road' in any sense (other than the ususal boring stuff like going to work in your car?) I mean, really 'on the road' - wind in your hair, following the band and all that?

I can just imagine him in his freshly valeted Rover, string-backed driving gloves firmly grasping the wheel, The Best of Level 42 on the stereo, scotch egg and a thermos of milky tea at the ready, as he embarks on his journey from Market Harborough to the NAEA annual conference at Warwick.

Ah....... happy days!

[mind the gap]

I can just imagine him in his freshly valeted Rover, string-backed driving gloves firmly grasping the wheel, The Best of Level 42 on the stereo, scotch egg and a thermos of milky tea at the ready, as he embarks on his journey from Market Harborough to the NAEA annual conference at Warwick.

Ah....... happy days!

You make him sound like a bit Toad of Toad Hall, steaming along on 'the open road' in his vintage motor. (Although I think even T of TH would be bored by an NAEA conference!)

I imagine the poor man being run into a ditch by maniacs like you on your motorbike...:p

[agent46]

You make him sound like a bit Toad of Toad Hall, steaming along on 'the open road'

Miles out. This was the image I had in my head.

Here's Paul playing "air bass" along to Hot Water as he drives down the A14.

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt169/LLZ46/attract18.jpg

[Paul_f]

My car doesn't have a sun roof, it's a soft-top - well the other one is. I prefer to walk when I can. I usually wear T shirt and jeans because at home nobody cares! I'm a TKMax fan if you really want to know. I get my bus pass this week so can't look too trendy! Keep up the banter, I quite enjoy this!

[mind the gap]

My car doesn't have a sun roof, it's a soft-top - well the other one is. I prefer to walk when I can. I usually wear T shirt and jeans because at home nobody cares! I'm a TKMax fan if you really want to know. I get my bus pass this week so can't look too trendy! Keep up the banter, I quite enjoy this!


Wow - and I thought you were nobbut a lad!

Congratulations on the bus pass and have a happy birthday. :)

But I still think you should give the open road a try, Paul. You could start with an open-topped bus ride round Bracknell or Milton Keynes - somewhere unthreatening llike that, then gradually work you way up to a Wild Thing, no holds barred, West Coast experience.

Camping in Morecambe?

[mind the gap]

Happy Birthday to Paul f.

I hope the bus pass is all you want it to be and more! :)

Why not start your own Travelblog?