Tenant holds over and pays less than market rent

[anita]

I let my property on a short lease, of 6 months and low start up rent below what I had previously had some 15 years ago, the tenent agreed the option to purchase my property or vacate the property, after months of wrangling over the sale, I was advised by a different solicitor than the one I had engaged, to give them notive to leave before they could claim the Landlord and tenent act, my solicitor failed to do this, so I did it myself the tenant ignored this notice and is still sitting in there today some 5 years later, I am receiving a very low rent, I have given them two months notice to pay a higher rent from Januery 1 2006 and to enter into a new lease, after they got a surveyor to act for them, and he wrote to me demanding what the lease was going to be, and could spend between £10,000 -£15,00 to make the garage property larger so they could expand their business, and they would pay me the asking rent after 5 years, on a ten year lease, I told him that I was not now going to negoiate a lease, and have returned their cheque, as they have refused to pay the new rent, can I evict them as they signed to leave the property on the old lease, and they have not paid the new rent, they pay their rent late and they have breached many of the terms of the old lease.

[Editor]

You have allowed the tenancy to continue well beyond the 6 months grace period, so I would say that by default - accepting rent albeit a low one - you have created a protected tenancy on a periodic basis.
I would strongly advise that you engage your own surveyor to handle this for you now. The tenancy needs to be brought to an end by serving a section 25 notice after you have determined the tenancy's exact status. You may have to offer a new tenancy and negotiate terms.

[yeahbutno]

I agree - there are some quite complex issues here, and you really need GOOD professional advice. All I would add is that it's important to get a surveyor who knows his (or her) stuff. Personal recommendations if possible - well worth taking time to research who is really switched on in your area, and well worth paying a bit more for someone who will do a good job.

[Worldlife]

Anita has provided a little more information in this thread than in a similar post in Rental Property Questions (http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=10865&posted=1#post10865)

In particular the advice by Editor here seems to put things in a nutshell.

[Tax Accountant]

This is not my field so please read the following with caution and a pinch of salt.

I came across similar situation regarding someone I know where there was a lease but was not signed and then there was a dispute between the landlord and the tenant.

The landlord issued a notice to quit but also offered a new tenancy.

The landlord then changed his mind and issued another notice to quit but this time without any offer to renew the lease. He said that he wanted the place for himself. As I understood it, the courts would give possession and they would not be too concerned what the place was used for afterwards. This made the tenant very concerned.

However, the landlord was told that the second notice was ineffective as he had already issued the first one. He could not now change his mind.

As I understood it, the landlord would definitely have been able to get rid of the tenant and the compensation would have been very little by reference to the rateable value. The tenant was very relieved that the landlord had issued the earlier notice with an offer to renew the lease.

The advice I would give from the above is as follows:

Consider the matter very carefully before you issue the notice to quit. Decide whether you want to offer a new lease or whether it is possible not to offer a new lease.

I would guess that if you do not offer a new lease, this would give you an upper hand in the negotiations as the tenant would be reluctant to move because of his business.

But either way, I believe that you have the legal right to ask for a market value rent.

You may find that the legal costs would be very expensive but may be you will not have any choice but to commence legal action.

Ramnik

[anita]

I have had two solicitors over three years offer new lease's but the tenants ignore any idea of a new tenancy, I have already asked the first negligent solicitor to put the matter right, or I will complain to the law society, but as yet no reply, I have today asked advice from a solicitor who had knowledge of this problem, from the start, but was acting for my ex husband, at that time and could not act for me, but advised me as best he could, which I noted and went to my solicitor with instructions but my solicitor ignored me.

[yeahbutno]

Anita - suggest you find a new solicitor; one who specialises in Commercial Pproprty issues. One who doesn't is little more use than the bloke in the pub, as I have found to my cost in the past. You also need to make sure your solicitor does NOT ignore your instructions! You are the client here!

IMO, you also need a surveyor - similarly one well versed in commercial lease matters.

There are two issues here - anger over previous incompetance by your solicitor, and the issue of your tenants who are happy to sit tight and laugh as they enjoy their cheap tenancy of your property. The latter is much more pressing IMO, and that is what you need to concentrate your efforts on.

[anita]

Finding a good solicitor is very hard to find, has I have found out, the first solicitor, who handled my divorce well know on TV was rubbish complained, right up to ombudsman, got no where, second was neglegent over the division of the commercial property, and made errors on the title deed plans what caused all of this trouble in the first place, the third allowed my tenant to stay over his lease time as he was purchasing the property failed to safe guard and advise me regarding the Landlord and tenant act, complained to complaint partner, got new solicitor in firm to asisst, not much better, my ex husbands solicitor handling the correction of the defective title deeds for him was long winded losing me the sale, instructed new solicitor ask for funds up front, wrote two letters, that was August 2004, have written to him, but no reply, have asked for my files back but still no reply, I went down the line of trying to develop the property into a town house, instructed an Architect to draw up plans, which he did, after asking him why he had not submitted them, he did and done a runner, never to be found again with my money, so may be the man in the pub can be trusted more than the proffesional's so you see why I am so screwed up, and yes they are laughing a me.

[Tax Accountant]

If you have been to as many solicitor's as you suggest, I don't think there is anything more that anyone here can suggest.

It is clear that you are frustrated, to put it mildly. Many other landlords and I know the feeling very well.

However, you will need to find a good solicitor and also a surveyor, knowing that they will be expensive. Even then there will be no guarantee of a satisfactory result. Best to see if someone more experienced on this forum can put out their neck and recommend someone.

Ramnik

[yeahbutno]

My experience is that a few hours sat at the keyboard researching the legal position can often mean that you actually know more about the law on your specific problem than the solicitor!

The "Legal Issues" board at the Motley Fool is very good - suggest you run the story past the regulars there an see if anyone can help?

http://boards.fool.co.uk/Messages.asp?bid=51110

Not sure if they can help with the broken fullstop key on your PC though! :D

[Tax Accountant]

...... Not sure if they can help with the broken fullstop key on your PC though! :D

You have good sense of humour.