Can upper flat's lessee extend into loft?

[chansen]

I currently own the first floor flat (purchased for £345k but prob worth much less now!) in a 2 floor terraced house in london with 77 years remaining on the lease. I have owned the lease for 1 year and wish to convert the loft asap. I am also interested in purchasing the freehold.

The lease makes no mention of the loft space but does say:

"All that the flat situate on the First Floor of the Building as including:

- the roof of the Building but excluding the roof of any single storey structures comprising part of the Lower Flat"

Is this sufficient to allow me to claim the loft space?

Is it necessary (or significantly beneficial) to purchase the freehold before starting to convert the loft or does this not matter?

What is required of the freeholder for me to go ahead under the leasehold?

Myself and the lower flat (who also wish to purchase the freehold) have not had any luck contacting the freeholder in the last year and apparently no ground rent has been charged in many years (lease states £75) - is there a way of moving things forward in our case?

Thanks for your help.

[jeffrey]

Look at f/r title (via LR Direct). If loft is not demised to any other lessee, it seems to be demised as part of your flat. If so, it is yours, BUT your lease probably prohibits you from structural alterations of your flat [as demised] unless you first obtain consent from L.

Conclusion: you + downstairs lessee should first purchase f/r so as to eliminate L. Only thereafter should you convert loft.

Serve Notice of Claim [s.13 of 1993 Act] on L at:
a. L's last-known address;
b. address registered for L at HMLR (on f/r title Proprietorship Register); and
c. company registered office address (if L is a company).

[Remy_klx]

Hi All,

I own a property in a conversion flat. I'm the owner of the 1st floor and my neigbors have the ground one. We have a share of leasehold.
Few smonths ago, we had to change the roof ..I took this opportunity to set up 3 velux windows in order for me to do later a loft conversion. (agreed by the freeholder)

we do have around 72years left on the lease..the property worths around 195K at the moment.

I wanted to buy the freehold but my neighbors can't afford it at the moment...
So my question is: what would roughly be the cost (all included) to modify the lease for my flat from a 2 bedroom flat to a 3 bedroom flat (with a loft conversion) if there is any cost.

Will I get a significant change in the ground rent aswell ? (paying 75gbp/year at the moment)

Thanks for your help,

Remy

[jeffrey]

F has agreed your loft conversion idea; but is the loft:
a. part of what you already own leasehold; or
b. currently undemised?

[born_2b_mad]

Hello everyone, first post for me here.

I live in a first floor maisonette (owned by ourselves), and we have decided to apply to our leasholder for a loft conversion (the roof space is ours).

We have had to do this via our leasholders Management Company, and they have charged us £75+vat just to ask!

We have just heard back that we have been given permission subject to a Landlord's Licence for Alteration being granted, now I suspect this is a vital document which we cannot bypass.

The thing that grates me is that we have been told that we will need to pay for our leaseholders solicitor (£300+vat) plus we will also need to pay her management company £150+vat just to act as a liason. Now I guess as in most cases we are liable for the other solicitor, but do we really need to pay her management company just to make a few phone calls, I am more than capable of calling our solicitor to push along the other side.

Can we do this without involving her Management Company?

[jeffrey]

More details please!
1. You are leaseholders.
2. What does your Mgt. Co. own- the freehold reversion, a leasehold reversion, or nothing?
3. Are you sure that the loft is within your lease?
4. Is your leasehold mortgaged? If it is, you'll need consent from the mortgagee too.

[Poppy]

You appear to be confusing the terms leaseholder/lessee and freeholder. You are the leaseholder/lessee of your flat. The owner of the building is the freeholder.

Read the lease. Is the loft demised as part of your flat?

If it is, you still need permission from the freeholder to alter the building's structure and pay the fee for obtaining such permission.
If not, the freeholder owns it and you would need to negotiate a price to buy it with a view to converting it, assuming they want to sell it to you in the first place.

[Remy_klx]

sorry for the delay, was waiting the reply from my sollicitor... see below:

I can confirm that the roof space is included within your legal title and therefore if you have the consent of the landlord to carry out the conversion all that would leave you to do is ensure that the relevant planning and building regulations papers are in place and you would need to liaise with the local Council in this respect.

You will not need to alter the Lease in any way.

so just to confirm i can do the loft conversion when I want without even any legal cost to pay to the L correct ?

thanks

[jeffrey]

sorry for the delay, was waiting the reply from my sollicitor... see below:

I can confirm that the roof space is included within your legal title and therefore if you have the consent of the landlord to carry out the conversion all that would leave you to do is ensure that the relevant planning and building regulations papers are in place and you would need to liaise with the local Council in this respect.

You will not need to alter the Lease in any way.

so just to confirm i can do the loft conversion when I want without even any legal cost to pay to the L correct?
Yes, except for any fees* for consent- which cannot be unreasonably witheld: se s.19(2) of LTA 1927. Get it in writing.

*- legal and other associated expenses of L.

[LondonSeller]

Hi all,

I have a query I'm hoping someone can help me with. I own the lease on an upper masionette in a victorian town house in London. My lease states that the roof space and loft are demised to me, but then goes on to say the roof is the lessors property. Does this mean that the freeholder can deny permission to develop into the loft with a mansard extension. I'm betting he can, but a bit of cash would change his mind?

Thanks in advance!

[jeffrey]

You own the loft; so any use of it (or extension into it) is within your leasehold.
BUT:
a. the lease covenants will still oblige you to obtain L's consent for structural alterations; and
b. extension through the roof would be trepass unless L grants supplemental lease.

[RachelT]

I'm interested in extending my flat upwards through the flat roof of one of my rooms, the roof is currently used as a roof terrace and is a communal space for the other 3 flats in the building. Although only one of the flat owners use it.

The building is freehold and each of the 4 flats own a quarter of the lease.

I've checked my deeds and it doesn't say that I own my flat roof which is used as a terrace it just says that the building has a part of it which is also part of my property and that there is a roof terrace which is available to all in the building to use freely.

I wondered if it is possible that I can use this space to extend my flat if I come to an agreement with the other owners and amend the deeds. Is this legally possible? Do I have any rights as it's my roof being used?

[Poppy]

It's not your roof - it belongs to the freeholder, of which there are four and you own just twenty-five per cent of that.

You will need to buy the roof space from your fellow freeholders and obtain their permission to include it in your flat’s demise and pay for their legal fees to amend the lease and obtain their permission to the modifications that you propose. Are your negotiating skills up to scratch?

[Moderator1]

Several largely similar questions on separate threads have been merged into this thread (hence the repetitive nature of answers).

[plumble]

Hello there. A new and related question to the above. Any advice appreciated.
I own the leasehold on a top storey flat and permission to build a roof extension has been granted. In our lease it states that upon building any roof extension we must pay the freeholder a fee of a) £6000 if it is made up of one additional room and b) £7500 if it is two additional rooms. Since we plan to extend and create three additional rooms neither of these is relevent. I was slightly surprised, to say the least, that the figures were so high - and arguably prohibative given the cost of the work required - and was wondering whether these figures can be upheld by law, and if we are in a position to renegotiate a different, and lower figure based on 3 additional rooms being added. I'd be happy paying £2000 or so, but £7500+...

Any helpful advice appreciated,

Yours,

Colin

[jeffrey]

If that's what the deeds say, you cannot unsay it by litigation. The wording was there when you purchased subject to it!

[plumble]

As I'd feared. But given that we will be adding a number of rooms not referred to in the lease, I'm hoping we're in a position to renegotiate at a different level. In which case I guess it depends on the mood our landlord is in...

Thanks for your reply.

Best,

Colin

[Markonee1]

As I'd feared. But given that we will be adding a number of rooms not referred to in the lease, I'm hoping we're in a position to renegotiate at a different level. In which case I guess it depends on the mood our landlord is in...

Thanks for your reply.

Best,

Colin
A clever notion, but for every wise guy there is someone wiser... As you cannot build and complete 3 rooms simultaneously, it could be suggested that you complete one room, then two, then finish one again, so that you incur £7500, then an extra £6000, or that's what I'd instruct a 'Learned Friend' }8~D)