When is a Fixed-Fee Quote not a Fixed-Fee Quote ?

[ukrv]

Hi

We appointed an online conveyancing firm (late September) to handle the sale of our house and the purchase of two others.

They quoted us fixed-fees of £350 for the sale and £250 each for the purchases.

Before they started any work, we advised them of a slight change in that they would be doing a part-ex of our house against the two purchases - we heard nothing from them.

We explained that the two purchases were freehold, but had three 999-yr leasehold garages under each of them and that the garage "owners" would have to contribute to our insurance - we still heard nothing from them (fee wise).

On November 16th, they emailed us and stated they would be increasing their fixed-fee quotes by £100 per file (thats £300 plus vat). They stated I should contact them if I had any issues.

The same day, I emailed three different staff members and stated I was not happy, but offered an extra £150 (inc vat) in total as a goodwill gesture. I asked that they contact me if this wasnt acceptable to them.

If they had contacted me, I would have been able to source quotes from elsewhere.

They didnt contact me about this, so I proceeded on the basis they were happy to have got the extra £150.

Now, we have just exchanged on the sale and both purchases (still to complete on one) and they have issued invoices for the extra £117.50 per file.

When I questioned the invoice today, they claimed not to have recieved my email, despite it being sent to 3 different staff members and despite the fact that many, many emails have been sent between us previosuly without problem (my email account is gmail).

Now, what can I do ????

I am due to leave the UK on January 4th and I feel they are taking advantage of the fact I wont be in the UK for a year to properly challenge the increases - they will just force thru these extra charges.

Any advice anyone ?

BTW - they have now also generated the invoice for the second purchase which is not due to complete until the end of February 2006 !

THANK YOU

[RichieP]

Doesn't Gmail keep sent mail? I know that doesn't prove receipt, but if they received the rest and you can prove you sent it, it may help.

See if they have a complaints procedure and use that. If you don't get what you think is fair, complian to the Law Society. I did this after a similar experience and the firm were investigated very thoroughly and given a slapped wrist.

[ukrv]

Hi

Yes, I did a screen print of the email which clearly shows the recipients as three of the firms staff.

I am also able to provide a plain text version of the email which shows all sorts of technical email-type data.

Im just a little upset that after offering more than I really needed to, they are still charging me more.

Paul

[MrShed]

IMO proving sending the email is not all that important(although undoubtedly useful). In fact I think it is very simple. The two parties had an agreement with the initial price. There is no agreement with the re-quoted price. Surely in this situation the onus was on them to get an express acceptance by you of the new price, otherwise there is no agreement based upon this price!

[ukrv]

MrShed

You would have thought it was nice and simple like that - if only.

The solicitors have already taken their increased charge from the balance due to me from the transaction.

They have also generated the increased invoice for the 2nd property which is due to complete at end-February.

My problem is that I will have to take my complaint outside the company, which will be difficult to do when I am 9,000 miles away for the year.

Im hoping they will see sense when they return to work on Jan 4th.

As I have already made the offer of an extra £150 (against their increases of £300+vat), would I be entitled to withdraw my offer if things have to be taken further ?

I dont want the hassle of formally complaining just for them to decide 6 months down the line to accept the £150.

Thanks
Paul

[ukrv]

I have now been advised by my family solicitor to write to the conveyancing firm.

I have withdrawn my goodwill offer of £150 (which I felt pressured into making) and demanded that they honour the agreed fixed-fee prices.

My solicitor advises that (as MrShed pointed out) the conveyancers Terms of Engagement clearly state "Our Guaranteed Fixed Fee covers all Conventional work associated with the conveyance.....other legal services, we will agree the costs of doing so with you.".

Telling me that their charge was increasing does not constitute "agreement" and is therefore a breach of the terms.

I will let you know how we get on, but I can see a complaint to the Council for Licensed Conveyancers looming on the horizon.

Paul

[Jennifer_M]

I would have thought the fixed fee was agreed on a certain work to be done. If the work changes then obviously the price might change. (e.g. you go to the garage to get a tyre changed, they say £50 labour and then you say "actually I want the 4 done", the price will go up).

You should really have phoned them or written to them by recorded delivery for something like that. Or at least got a "proof of delivery" from your email account (you can do that in outlook, it tells you if the email was received and/or read).

[ukrv]

Hi Jennifer

The problem with your statement, is that the conveyancing firm would be the ones who know what frustrations may or may not come along with the work they quote for - they ARE the professionals (??).

I would have thought experience should have taught them to factor a certain cost into all their quotes, which covers any difficult bits of work. They would gain on some and lose on others.

They quoted for 3 transactions - and that is what they are doing. Ive not suddenly asked them to work on an extra few purchases etc for nothing.

I explained how the properties were "made up" at the outset.

They claim that I have asked a lot of questions and/or have agreed compensation payments with the housebuilder for late completion etc.

Surely EVERYONE asks questions when buying/selling property ?

Given the fact that the conveyancers constantly told me it is a "take it or leave it situation" with the builders shows they weren't too bothered about getting involved anyway.

The compensation payments were agreed with the builder and the conveyancer only had to ensure the agreement made it into the contract.

Paul

[MrShed]

I would have thought the fixed fee was agreed on a certain work to be done. If the work changes then obviously the price might change. (e.g. you go to the garage to get a tyre changed, they say £50 labour and then you say "actually I want the 4 done", the price will go up).



True, but I think this situation is more like this. Take your car to the garage for an oil change. Whilst doing the oil change, they find your windscreen wiper motor is broke. They ring you, you dont answer, they leave a message, and then replace the motor anyway. Then charge you for both. You would never stand for that, so why would you in this case??

*EDIT* better example, changes yours slightly! You do as you say, whilst changing the tyre they notice your other tyres are bald, and change them also then charge you, without getting your permission!

[Jennifer_M]

Hi Jennifer

The problem with your statement, is that the conveyancing firm would be the ones who know what frustrations may or may not come along with the work they quote for - they ARE the professionals (??).
Well you said earlier that first they quoted for some work and then you informed them that the situation had changed and they told you the price would go up. That sounds fair enough.
Where it gets complicated is when you don't agree to the charge but they say they never received the email. The problem is emails aren't 100% reliable; it is possible that you sent it and they indeed didn't receive them. It's unlikely but not impossible, that's why you should always use a read receipt with emails and if it's an important matter follow the email with a phone call.


I would have thought experience should have taught them to factor a certain cost into all their quotes, which covers any difficult bits of work. They would gain on some and lose on others.
:confused: Why would a business lose money on some work ? Their goal isn't to break even.


They quoted for 3 transactions - and that is what they are doing. Ive not suddenly asked them to work on an extra few purchases etc for nothing.
I understand what you're saying but when they quoted you a price, maybe the 3 transactions were a lot less complicated (less searches, paperwork etc.) than with the changes in the situation.
I know that when I bought my house, I had a fixed conveyancing fee and if there where complications or additional searches to be made (mining report) I had to pay set fees listed in the contract.


They claim that I have asked a lot of questions and/or have agreed compensation payments with the housebuilder for late completion etc.

Surely EVERYONE asks questions when buying/selling property ?
It depends what you agreed to in the first place. Some solicitors will charge you by the hour everytime you call to ask anything, some won't.
I would guess that all the details should be in your contract.