EPCs on tenancy renewal or statutory continuation?

[CoffeeCup]

My tenants are currently on a rolling periodic tenancy.
As long as this remains the case and they stay in the property,

Then I will *not* need to take out an EPC, as this will neither be a new or renewed tenancy.

Correct? or have I got my wires crossed:confused:

[hip-consultant.co.uk]

My tenants are currently on a rolling periodic tenancy.
As long as this remains the case and they stay in the property,

Then I will *not* need to take out an EPC, as this will neither be a new or renewed tenancy.

Correct? or have I got my wires crossed:confused:

Correct, if you tenant remains you will not need an EPC. The legislation is based around marketing of your property which by my understanding will not be happening.

There does seem to be some confusion, maybe not so much on this forum. We are receiving alot of enquiries from people under the impression that every rented property needs an EPC from 1st October. This is not the case and i make quite a few peoples day with this information

[CoffeeCup]

Thanks for the clarification.


Correct, if you tenant remains you will not need an EPC. The legislation is based around marketing of your property which by my understanding will not be happening.

So even if my existing tenants decide they would like to take out a 6/12 month tenancy agreement - No need for an EPC?


There does seem to be some confusion, maybe not so much on this forum. We are receiving alot of enquiries from people under the impression that every rented property needs an EPC from 1st October. This is not the case and i make quite a few peoples day with this information

I suspect that may have something to do with Letting agents setting up deals with companies that provide EPC's

Then mailshotting their whole landlord database.

The fact that I received such a letter would suggest to the uninformed I need an EPC.

Throw in phrases like 'From 1st October 2008 the law requires all residential lettings properties to have an Energy Performance Certificate'

'Failure to comply carries a £200 penalty'

Luckly for me:rolleyes: (due to their 'leading' status) they have secured a deal of £100 + vat. I feel so lucky I might have 2!

And piste de résistance, They give me 21 days to *opt out* of getting the report done. Otherwise they will go ahead with a report that I dont need in the 1st place.

Am I being overly cynical here or does this smell of opportunism?

[Jane Needham]

Hi

Yes you are correct. Whilever your current tenant remains on the same tenancy agreement, then you do not need to pay for an EPC to be carried out. The requirement is only triggered when a property becomes available for let after 1 October 2008. However there are then very limited circumstances when they are not required. Recent CLG (the Government Dept responsible) advice suggests that even if a property is not marketed, but a tenant is on a waiting list and is asked if they would like to take the property, an EPC requirement would be triggered.

Hope this helps.

Jane Needham
Topic Expert

[Rodent1]

So let us clear up the point then :
If a T remains in prop but signs a new ast (prop not marketed ) just simple renewal,rent increase , is an epc required ?

also anyone paying more than £60 needs to see www.netrent.co.uk (http://www.netrent.co.uk) personally i think anyine paying more than £40 just needs to shop around !


The Rodent

[hip-consultant.co.uk]

So let us clear up the point then :
If a T remains in prop but signs a new ast (prop not marketed ) just simple renewal,rent increase , is an epc required ?

also anyone paying more than £60 needs to see www.netrent.co.uk (http://www.netrent.co.uk) personally i think anyine paying more than £40 just needs to shop around !


The Rodent

Renewals of tenancies also do not require EPC if you are not marketing. I reccomend asking these types of questions to your prospective provider, if you are given incorrect answers it will go same way towards gaining an insight into the service and knowledge you will probably recieve.

[CoffeeCup]

I located a government EPC helpline 0845 365 2468

They have confirmed the advice given in this thread.

Thanks for the contribution, I will be reviewing my position with the letting agency, in light of their misleading information.

[CoffeeCup]

I located a government EPC helpline 0845 365 2468


Here the government guidance to landlords on the new EPC's
http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/925424.pdf

Sticky info perhaps?

[Baggers]

So let us clear up the point then :
If a T remains in prop but signs a new ast (prop not marketed ) just simple renewal,rent increase , is an epc required ?

also anyone paying more than £60 needs to see www.netrent.co.uk (http://www.netrent.co.uk) personally i think anyine paying more than £40 just needs to shop around !


The Rodent


VERY TRUE, anyone paying £40 and below needs to shop around because the chances are you have a brigade member doing your EPC. There is a serious amount of EPC's being produce that are not worth the paper it's written on.

Wait until you get a tenant that finds the EPC running figures are incorrect and they want a reduction in rent or back out of the deal. Is it really worth it?

[Rodent1]

VERY TRUE, anyone paying £40 and below needs to shop around because the chances are you have a brigade member doing your EPC. There is a serious amount of EPC's being produce that are not worth the paper it's written on.

Wait until you get a tenant that finds the EPC running figures are incorrect and they want a reduction in rent or back out of the deal. Is it really worth it?

£40 would appear to be a fig being paid right accross uk by the shrewd amoungst us......... as reported an this and other forums......... and in my and my associates experience !

The yard stick has been set !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also only pay £25 for gas safety checks.
Some of us are a bit more awake than others ...if you are charging more ...good luck to you ....maybe i'll give you a call in 10 years to see what your prices are then !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"There is a serious amount of EPC's being produce that are not worth the paper it's written on"

I presume you meant "are " not "is" and, yes, i agree every single one of them,, real ,,,,forged,,,, or copied !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The Rodent

[taheemr]

Hello,

I have taken my off this forum for some time, but can someone please explain if there is a legal obligation for landlords to provide home energy certs to new tenancies taken up after the 1st Oct.

Does the cert need to be inplace before commencement of tenancy or have I got time to get a cert done once the tenant moves in.

Many Thanks

[mind the gap]

Hello,

I have taken my off this forum for some time, but can someone please explain if there is a legal obligation for landlords to provide home energy certs to new tenancies taken up after the 1st Oct.

Does the cert need to be inplace before commencement of tenancy or have I got time to get a cert done once the tenant moves in.

Many Thanks

Yes, there is a legal obligation to have an EPC in place before the commencement of any new tenancy after Oct 1st 2008.

[taheemr]

Thanks for that, I also read somewhere that it only applies to "new properties".

Another money spinner for our gov`t no doubt.

[mind the gap]

Thanks for that, I also read somewhere that it only applies to "new properties".

Another money spinner for our gov`t no doubt.

No, that's not the case. If you are interested in all the arguments for and against, trawl the threads on the EPC/HIPs forum on this site.

[Sorrel]

It isn't just for new properties but......I believe that as long as you have the provisions in place for aquiring an EPC as from the 1st of October or whenever your property goes on the market you should be ok. i.e as long as you can produce the EPC within a specific time frame (14 days...i think) you shouldnt be fined.

[mind the gap]

It isn't just for new properties but......I believe that as long as you have the provisions in place for aquiring an EPC as from the 1st of October or whenever your property goes on the market you should be ok. i.e as long as you can produce the EPC within a specific time frame (14 days...i think) you shouldnt be fined.

Sorrel, where did you learn that please?

[Julles]

It is the other way round

New properties do not need one as the one in the HIPS pack is adequate for the Rental EPC
.

[Sorrel]

Sorrel, where did you learn that please?

Just made it up...but seriously

Was informed by a DEA i seem to remember. But that is why I put 'I believe' infront of what i said. Never said it was gospel. can i get an amen!

Why?

[mind the gap]

Just made it up...but seriously

Was informed by a DEA i seem to remember. But that is why I put 'I believe' infront of what i said. Never said it was gospel. can i get an amen!

Why?

Becasue it's the opposite of what I thought and I wondered if you had access to a Higher-up Oracle than me.

[Sorrel]

Its bloody murkey waters this whole EPC thing. If you take the time to read the EU regs i posted elsewehere corss reference it with the communities and government website info i posted also it becomes soooo clear...not!

Stupid loopholes!

[m&m]

Hi All,

Does anyone know if a tenant renewing a paper tenancy after 1/10/08 (but that's been living at a property before that date) means the property has to have an EPC?

Cheers,

M.

[P.Pilcher]

Not necessary -only needed for new tenants taking up tenancy on or after 1st October so I have been reliably informed here.

P.P.

[m&m]

Thanks for that. I'm sure it's only delaying the inevitable though! Every LL will have to buy one eventually.

[mind the gap]

Thanks for that. I'm sure it's only delaying the inevitable though! Every LL will have to buy one eventually.


Well spotted!

[Baggers]

You just haven't got a clue, I assume you think an assessment is just a case of 30 minutes going around the property.

I'm confused here, your quote says "also anyone paying more than £60 needs to see www.netrent.co.uk" what would you go there for? they are £80 + vat

[Rodent1]

You just haven't got a clue, I assume you think an assessment is just a case of 30 minutes going around the property.

I'm confused here, your quote says "also anyone paying more than £60 needs to see www.netrent.co.uk" what would you go there for? they are £80 + vat


It would appear that www.netrent.co.uk (http://www.netrent.co.uk) has also gotten onto the rip off bandwagon and has upped it's price from £60 to £80 (+vat) ...will check the next spam email they send to see how consistent they are being !!


30 mins ....you planning a 20 min nap on my sofa whilst you are there ?................ cos i will charge for that !!

Had one done this week that took 10 mins ...reckon i could have done it in 5 .......if you cut the B/S i had to listen to ............

Still at least he had the decency to charge £40 (no Vat ) as he explained he de-registered as demand he expected has not materialised .....Hey you're kidding me,.. yeh !!!!.....NOPE!!!!!

£40 What a complete and UTTER waste of money (combi boiler, DG, Thermo rad valves, 250mm loft ins, Le lights bulbs)................

"have you taken the wind chill factor into consideration ?" i asked being as it is North facing front ......errrrrrrrrrr NO ...he said ......

Not a problem said I ..guess that will be cancelled out by the south facing rear of the prop then ? .....yeh ...guess so ...........

WHAT A LOAD OF BxxxxxxKS !!!!!!!


The Rodent

[Baggers]

Looks like you had one of the "brigade" members in then, "Monkeys & peanuts".

So is the chill factor not taken into consideration then?

[Rodent1]

Looks like you had one of the "brigade" members in then, "Monkeys & peanuts".

So is the chill factor not taken into consideration then?

It would appear not ! so if you live at the bottom of a hill in a sheltered position .....then this will give same geographical epc rating as being at the top of a mountain on the same road in a completely exposed position !!

OR is this not the case ????

More Bxxxxxs i say!

Show a T a graph ........a large % of UK pop dont understand percentages let alone a graph !!!!!!!!

SAD BUT SO TRUE...

The Rodent

[stuart at my home energy]

Most landlords seem to be ok with the cost of the EPC. Some will dodge this, they may get caught. But all Letting agents will not touch a property without the EPC in place. I turn around EPCs in under 24 hours for local agents. I did one yesterday and its on their ( letting agents) website this morning.

I've had plenty of calls from Landlords who are being charged a greatly marked up price for EPCs from mainly Estate agents / Letting agents who are trying to make extra income to prop up their sales side. I've had some Estate agents try to rubbish me as an independant DEA - saying that my work isn't valid or up to standard.

This doesn't help the confussed Landlord or this new process. It will backfire on them in the end.

[mind the gap]

Most landlords seem to be ok with the cost of the EPC. Some will dodge this, they may get caught. But all Letting agents will not touch a property without the EPC in place. I turn around EPCs in under 24 hours for local agents. I did one yesterday and its on their ( letting agents) website this morning.

I've had plenty of calls from Landlords who are being charged a greatly marked up price for EPCs from mainly Estate agents / Letting agents who are trying to make extra income to prop up their sales side. I've had some Estate agents try to rubbish me as an independant DEA - saying that my work isn't valid or up to standard.

This doesn't help the confussed Landlord or this new process. It will backfire on them in the end.

Confussed, or concussed? Or might you mean confused?

Enlighten us - how much do you charge?

[Rodent1]

Regarding agents propping up the price, my experience with one agent who manages property for me is fair - they charge around £60 + VAT. This is in Nottingham.

My own EPC person charges around £40 all in - as mentioned before if anyone wants a referral (NW only) let me know via PM. I make nothing from the referral however this is the only DEA who has not been bombarding me with leaflets and visits (unlike PSG, who I will not touch with a bargepole) which is why I started using her for my EPCs and have so far been very impressed.


Also paying £40 which i thought was no vat inc as dea not registered .....but turns out he is !!!

So that's £34.04 +vat ...cheapest yet ????

I do not consider 60+vat as "fair" at all .....i consider that a "ripoff"





The Rodent

[jta]

I don't know about a ripoff, I've just paid for two today, £60 for a two bed, £80 for a 4 bed. Considering both properties are in the Greater London area I thought that was reasonable. The prices will settle eventually to whatever the market will bear, same as everything else.

[Worldlife]

I think they are all a rip off at whatever price or whatever the accreditation.

Our recent certficate failed to establish whether or not there were cavity walls at the property and recorded solid walls.

It therefore failed to recommend the most cost effective method of improving thermal insulation - cavity wall insulation.

In the absence of grants to landlords most possible improvements are out of the question e.g double glazing

Maybe the cost of the inspection report could have been better spent on providing energy efficient light bulbs (one of the suggestions!)

[mind the gap]

I think they are all a rip off at whatever price or whatever the accreditation.

Our recent certficate failed to establish whether or not there were cavity walls at the property and recorded solid walls.

It therefore failed to recommend the most cost effective method of improving thermal insulation - cavity wall insulation.

In the absence of grants to landlords most possible improvements are out of the question e.g double glazing

Maybe the cost of the inspection report could have been better spent on providing energy efficient light bulbs (one of the suggestions!)

Suggest you claim a refund from your DEA - sounds like s/he messed up there. You can file a complaint against them, if you want. I'm also surprised double glazing was recommended, as the cost of this isn't normally recoverable from reduced energy bills within a reasonable time frame.

Sound a bit of an amateur.

[oaktree]

I don't see why agents shouldn't charge a bit more for arranging them; after all they are the ones who are going to have to produce the information, when requested, every time the property comes up for rent over the next 10 years; with the average EPC taking up 5-6 pages that could add up to a fair amount of paper, toner, postage etc.

If the agent puts £20 on top thats only £2 per year to produce an unlimited amount of copies on request; if the government are correct (and I doubt they are) then every one will be asking for them shortly in which case an agent could be pumping out dozens of these a month.

I gave landlords the choice; arrange it yourself and produce copies as and when required or leave it to me and pay a bit extra to have me do it. Only one wanted to do it themselves and I bet he'll get fed up with it before I do.

[Baggers]

The software does allow input for different property positions and makes different recommendations based on it's position.

[Baggers]

New property will have a SAP report.