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View Full Version : Section 14 do you know it ? is it fast eviction this way ?



charger
14-12-2005, 08:41 AM
Hi, Sorry to post again on the same subject, but couldn't get any answer in the last two days .

It seems to me that on Christmas time tenants and people in general become more tense rather than peaceful and lovable.

My tenant has verbally abused me and physically pushed me, because i didn't want to give him £10 pounds to buy his favourite drugs.
- I called the Police and have been told that they have no power to make him leave..
- I then called the Landlord Action and have been told it takes 5 months to remove him from the house.
- I kept on calling solicitors, and evetually have been told by one that for violent behaviour, a tenant can be soon removed under "section 14" .
I am getting a bit confused here, and do not know if the solicitor has told me so, just because he's looking for business, or if it's real

I asked the tenant to leave but he don't want to. What's next then ?

Thank you

RichieP
14-12-2005, 09:01 AM
It's Ground 14, Section 8 of the Housing Act. Have a look [url=http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/grounds_for_possession.htm]here[/rl]

You need to be more specific and precise about your informaton. In your other post you say his tenancy has ended so you can issue a Section 21, which is 2 months notice. When this expires you apply to the court. If you don't need to ask for a money judgment for rent arrears, you apply for accelerated possession, which should take 14 days. Once that period has expired you apply to the bailiffs which can be up to 6 weeks. That makes approx 4 months in total, so it's not a quick process.

If you want to go down the Ground 14 route you need to gather a lot of evidence and have witnesses prepared to appear in court, which it doesn't sund like you have, so it looks like the longer route for you. If he actually physically assaults you, call the police and have him arrested. You then have to request for him to be bailed at a different address and apply for an injunction.

None of this is going to be easy, but you need to get some proper legal help.

charger
14-12-2005, 09:10 AM
hi Richie

Couldn't say correctly the all story, but when i tried to explain to the police what had happened and try to put them in touch with the person who was there with me, over the phone, all they said was : go home relax and have a tea ...rather get a solicitor, very funny ..
I wanted to give him a section 21 after the six months of course as his tenancy was expired, that's the reason he pushed me on the stairs and badly swore at me ... yes, the witness was there, but he left as the police took ages to arrive and we were waiting outside the house in the cold, as we didn't want to get in the house. Amazing but real.!
he said he's very secure there, and even asked me for £10 pounds to buy some staff with no shame ..
On other occasions he badly swore at me again in front of the builders .i think that's enough proof of madness from his side .

charger
14-12-2005, 09:18 AM
Richie

Forgot to ask you .
Wheter he will be able to prove it or not that he pushed me, that is something that will be established into a court later on, but i guess for now once i decide to go for section "8 ground 14" , he's out in 14 days anyway ..OR Sorry, perhaps you said 14 days, and then ..six weeks for the bailiffs, in total four months ?
All the rest will be proved later in court .BUt for now he will have to go ..
Is that right ?

susan 2
14-12-2005, 09:58 AM
Charger - may I suggest you go to www.landlordlaw.co.uk. Tessa the solicitor specialises in tenant problems and has helped me on several occasions with very good advice. It will cost you £10 to join for a month, but worth it. Or even better have you tried your local tenancy relations officer at the council.They are free and are usually solicitors. Our local one helped me with a violent tenant and gave great advice. They can help you with all the forms for going to court. Just ring your local council and ask for him or her. If you have this type of problem they are the first person you should approach. Best of luck Susan

charger
14-12-2005, 16:26 PM
Susan

Thanks for that, i really appreciate it ..
The fact is that almost all of us have got few unsolved issues with the council, and i don't want to go there at the moment, as they might ask me if it is a HMO house. You know that for Hmo, doors need to be fire-proof and need to have a fire alarm system installed all over the house ....+ locks etc..
will see how it goes with this solicitor who specializes in tenan't eviction, and has today served the recorded delivery notice.
But i feel like joining now, for ten pounds it's quite good !!

lucid
14-12-2005, 18:31 PM
they might ask me if it is a HMO house. You know that for Hmo, doors need to be fire-proof and need to have a fire alarm system installed all over the house ....+ locks etcSo how do the other tenants in your "HMO" feel about living in a property that could potentially be a deathtrap?

You appear to be saying that your property is an HMO and that you are blatantaly ignoring the statutory fire, and health and safety regulations. Is this the case and is that for financial reasons?

Ground 14 is purely discretionary and would need a substantial amount of evidence and independent witnesses to prove in court. And if the tenant challenges your s21 they could well bring up you breaches in the regulations which could end up in a counter claim maybe and a possible prosecution by the relevant regulatory authorities attracting a very large fine. Better you work with the council who will help you meet the requirements than they find out.

Why haven't you just obeyed the law and fixed the locks, fire alarm system and the other items?

susan 2
14-12-2005, 19:59 PM
Lucid - I agreed with you. However fire regulations have now become so detailed and expensive, that I can realise why he is wary of having to do them. But tenants should not be put in the position of living in a potential deathtrap. Does anyone know if you can still get grants for fire regs. I did mine in 1988 so the world has changed somewhat!

Charger - The officer does not ususally ask what type of house the problem tenant is living in. Remember you can just phone up to ask their advice. You do not have to go into detail.

charger
14-12-2005, 22:22 PM
Lucid

I simply didn't know about Hmo and its rules .It's only by asking that i get more and more info. have already got in touch with a reputable company to know what is needed .
Regarding the section 14, there are enough evidence and witnesses to make him leave soon.


Susan

Thanks, I think i should just go for it and ask before it's too late. have heard that some people have been fined for up to £ 2,000 for not doing it.


This forum is a blessing

susan 2
15-12-2005, 11:27 AM
Charger - I think they only get fined if they are difficult about doing fire regs. I have found with any council it helps if you are not obstructive in any way - grovel a bit if necessary! I had to do mine in arrears as it was. Like you I had not known then what had to be done. However once they found that I intended to do all that they asked, they were very helpful. One officer even back dated a form for me! Some of the younger ones can be a bit "jobs worth" but if you get any trouble ask to speak to a more senior person. Mostly they are just so glad you are doing fire regs that you do not get trouble. And you can still talk to the tenancy relations officer before the work is done. Hope everything turns out well.
P.S. Join your local library and read all the books on property that they have, and if they do not have many, ask them to order some. Look on Amazon for titles. Letting property as you have found out needs research. There is a lot to learn.

charger
15-12-2005, 20:19 PM
Hi Susan

Library/Read the books/Local council officer .. good good !!
I am happily taking all this as my homework for the next week...
Yes, i have got an estimation today from a reputable builder, and i am going to show that to them ...Eventually i will have to get sorted if i want to deal with properties .
I hesitated before as i ma excited by my new job for a franchising company, therefore i kept on postponing.

The younger from the council are a bit strict you mean ? well, they should human too ..
Anyway i'll try my best

Thanks

lucid
15-12-2005, 22:09 PM
Yes Susan I agree with you but we must not forget that the rules however strict and cumbersome are there for 1 reason only to protect and save lives. This is far more important than a landlords profit or ignorance of those rules.

Letting property is not a service but a business undertaken for financial gain. And in my opinion anyone letting out property should make themselves aware of the relevant regulations before they begin. There are no excuses when safety is at stake. And I am glad that charger is now undertaking the work to comply with the regulations.

Imagine if his tenant or another had started an accidental fire!! Or if someone was hurt. The likelihood of death or injury would be substantially increased by the lack of safety precautions such as detectors, extinguishers and firedoors etc. And believe me in court "I didn't know" would not be an excuse. More than that ignoring the regulations in situations like that could well attract a custodial sentence for the offending landlord.

Moreover the reason for the strict regulation is the very fact that fires are more likely to occur in HMO's than other dwellings.

As you said the council are more likely to help the landlord if he asks for assistance than prosecute.

charger
16-12-2005, 03:12 AM
Lucid

Please let me ask you one more thing.
Regarding the number of the people in a house, and the size of the rooms is there anything else i need to know ?
I guess a three m by four m room it's an average, or the council is not bothered by that !!
Whha by the way, i got the estimation and it will cost me roughly £ 3,500 .
That's really a Christmas to remember . That's life i guess .

lucid
16-12-2005, 03:32 AM
Have a look on another thread there is a link by Paul re the New housing act which is yet to come into effect as the regs are changing and landlords will need licences from the council.

i will see if i can find it 2moro. idid have some other links with a lot of the HMO reg etc but wil have to find them again. if i find them I'll post them 4u but it might be quicker to google it yourself.

i know its expensive but imagine if something bad were to happen and you hadn't taken the precautions and followed the Regs. death...injury.. destroyed property..fines or prison? £3500 seems quite good in comparison

susan 2
16-12-2005, 21:03 PM
Charger - More advice - if you ring the environmental health department at your local council they will send a big pack of information on Houses in Multiple occupation. (I have mine in front of me now) It has loads of information including gas regs, furniture regs etc. It will tell you all you need to know. It is a bit of a problem when you first start. However remember that once your house has its fire regs done it will be worth a great deal more! Happy Christmas Susan

lucid
16-12-2005, 22:38 PM
Here are some useful links re the new HMO regs for the Housing Act 2004 from ODPM site 3 links then sub links:

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1151996



And for reference The Act itself:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2004/20040034.htm

Explanatory notes for above:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/en2004/2004en34.htm

charger
17-12-2005, 10:07 AM
Whha Thank you so much SUSAN and LUCID.
Yes, it will be hard in the beginning, but have already thought at the house value, it will improve indeed .
I will click on those links and will see what they tell me .
I have also met a rent officer who confidentially told me to apply for grants to see if i can qualify.
Apart from Hmo, i have also done a search to get the tel nr of the environmental health department regarding noises in houses/noisy neighbours.etc...I guess it's tham who deal with that too ?

susan 2
17-12-2005, 10:24 AM
Charger - none of us mind helping posters who thank us, as you have done. I hope everything goes OK in future. Its only the ones who expect long answers and never give any thanks that really annoy me and all the others on this forum. If everyone was like you there would be no problems.

caroline7758
17-12-2005, 15:42 PM
Library books might be out of date- especially as there are new health & safety regs coming in soon with the new Housing Act. Have a look at the ODPM website- don't want to spend money doing stuff which is not sufficient for the new act.

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1151996

lucid
17-12-2005, 17:28 PM
Caroline if you check the links in my last post I think you'll find that I already posted your link.