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View Full Version : The Dead Hand of Censorship



agent46
01-09-2008, 11:38 AM
I have posted this publicly because I don't know how to contact The Mordorator via PM. I also think this issue needs airing because there has, of late, been a lot of official interference in the opnions expressed on this forum.

Re: The Carsberg Thread

(1) Why not simply delete the offensive post instead of closing the whole "Carsberg" thread?

(2) And/or ban Toorisky for the offensive comments made in the above mentioned post?

(3) Why delete mine and Bel's last 2 posts when they contained absolutely nothing personal, offensive or insulting?

Re: Generally:

It seems that now, unless we all timidly pussyfoot around each other's opinions, then our posts are in danger of being deleted for simply criticising or questioning someone else's viewpoint.

Hey ho - at least I now know that the easiest way to shut down debate on a subject on this forum is to just provoke someone into an argument.

Very sad, disproportionate and unnecessary.....:(

jeffrey
01-09-2008, 11:49 AM
It seems that now, unless we all timidly pussyfoot around each other's opinions, then our posts are in danger of being deleted for simply criticising or questioning someone else's viewpoint.
Surely the problem is members' unnecessary antipathy and ad hominem vituperation, rather than mere stark differences of viewpoints?

mind the gap
01-09-2008, 11:50 AM
I have posted this publicly because I don't know how to contact The Mordorator via PM. I also think this issue needs airing because there has, of late, been a lot of official interference in the opnions expressed on this forum.

Re: The Carsberg Thread

(1) Why not simply delete the offensive post instead of closing the whole "Carsberg" thread?

(2) And/or ban Toorisky for the offensive comments made in the above mentioned post?

(3) Why delete mine and Bel's last 2 posts when they contained absolutely nothing personal, offensive or insulting?

Re: Generally:

It seems that now, unless we all timidly pussyfoot around each other's opinions, then our posts are in danger of being deleted for simply criticising or questioning someone else's viewpoint.

Hey ho - at least I now know that the easiest way to shut down debate on a subject is to just provoke someone into an argument.

Very sad and unnecessary.....:(

I agree that it would be good to be able to contact the Moderator, and I cannot understand the rationale for purging comments which are not personally abusive, when ones which ARE, are allowed to remain.

For example: the homophobic abuse left by Colincbayley in one of Jeffrey's threads (I realise he's left the forum, but his vicious comments remain); also, an exchange of between TenantsLuvMe and myself about whether a poster was after opinions or not, which, whilst bad-tempered on part of TLM, wasn't actually offensive, was removed, whereas comments about my 'manky' tenants and other similar remarks posted in the same thread by SEB, although gratuitiously personal and inappropriate, were not taken out....????

I have emailed the Moderator to ask for these to be removed but have had no response whatsoever.

Is there another way?

mind the gap
01-09-2008, 11:54 AM
We've been purged again. A moral enema.
Is this topic really classed as 'the less serious'?

Interesting.

jeffrey
01-09-2008, 11:56 AM
Moderator does not receive personal messages, it seems. Instead, I suggest that you refer the offending still-undeleted posts for the Editor to inspect and (if necessary) delete. Easiest way: simply flag each one with the "Report Post" thingy (the black exclamation mark within red warning triangle). Also tell him about ColincBayley's abuse.
MindThe Gap: please explain your last post.

agent46
01-09-2008, 13:05 PM
Surely the problem is members' unnecessary antipathy and ad hominem vituperation, rather than mere stark differences of viewpoints?

That would be true if The Mordorator in his or her overexuberance didn't also sweep up posts which merely contain strongly expressed differences of opinion. I think the most offensive thing in my reply to Bel's "doctors/nurses" post was when I described Bel's view of the differences between doctors and nurses in the way they interact with patients as "lazy stereotyping", or something similar. In my view, that sort of thing should not warrant deletion. If, on the other hand I had added, "You're a ****** idiot", then deletion might have been justified. As for Bel's "doctors/nurses" post to which I replied - as far as I can remember, although it was slightly off-topic it contained nothing offensive, insulting or personal in nature, so there was even less reason to remove it.

"Babies and bathwater" springs to mind.

jeffrey
01-09-2008, 13:07 PM
Solution: don't be offensive.

agent46
01-09-2008, 13:17 PM
Solution: don't be offensive.

Problem: neither Bel or I were offensive (neither were some of the other authors (eg: J4L) who have suffered post deletion recently).

Bel
01-09-2008, 13:43 PM
My post was slightly off topic and stereotypical, not meant to be gravely serious and probably had spelling mistakes; it probably deserved a huge rollicking from agent46 but not the Mods.

But I do think that nurses are underrated, compared to "darling doctors".

Jeffrey; what does your post mean??!!

mind the gap
01-09-2008, 14:10 PM
MindThe Gap: please explain your last post.

What - 'moral enema'? or the fact that agent46's thread about censorship had been 'purged' in the sense of being moved to 'Take a Break - for the less serious!'?

jeffrey
01-09-2008, 14:14 PM
What - 'moral enema'? or the fact that agent46's thread about censorship had been 'purged' in the sense of being moved to 'Take a Break - for the less serious!'?
Moved from where? What was its proper place, amongst the forums available?

mind the gap
01-09-2008, 15:23 PM
Moved from where? What was its proper place, amongst the forums available?

Perhaps we need one forum called Forum Etiquette, and one called Democracy Matters?

jeffrey
01-09-2008, 15:29 PM
Etiquette? If only. Politeness is a lost art on LZ.

If you're inventing new forums (fora?), though, why not add one called "Correct English usage"? Many members might benefit significantly!

mind the gap
01-09-2008, 16:02 PM
hy not add one called "Correct English usage"? Many members might benefit significantly!


Brillliant idea. What format did you have in mind? Public humiliation of offenders - a kind of grammatical pillory - or public instruction (snappy little bite-sized lessons in how to avoid split infinitives or dangling participles)?

Or can we all just rant randomly (but politely, of course!) about the incorrect/inappropriate/unfit for purpose usage of English which prevents us making sense of some posts?

Speaking of which...whatever happened to that link to help non-lawyers with legal jargon?!

jeffrey
01-09-2008, 16:08 PM
Brillliant idea. What format did you have in mind? Public humiliation of offenders - a kind of grammatical pillory - or public instruction (snappy little bite-sized lessons in how to avoid split infinitives or dangling participles)?

Or can we all just rant randomly (but politely, of course!) about the incorrect/inappropriate/unfit for purpose usage of English which prevents us making sense of some posts?
Name and shame 'em- or else hanging. It's the only language they understand!

agent46
01-09-2008, 16:15 PM
It's the only language they understand!

Well, that and a marginal grasp of English

Lawcruncher
01-09-2008, 17:34 PM
Every post should be worded on the basis that it is addressed to someone who has promised you a large legacy.

mind the gap
01-09-2008, 17:36 PM
Every post should be worded on the basis that it is addressed to someone who has promised you a large legacy.

Lick, slurp, lick? That kind of thing?

Lawcruncher
01-09-2008, 19:04 PM
Lick, slurp, lick? That kind of thing?

I was thinking more of amused deference.

Rodent1
01-09-2008, 19:30 PM
Well i only managed to get 2 posts on to what was a very interesting thread .........
and as mine was the last post i must have been the last straw !!!!!!

The nanny state has come to rule at LZ .......which is a great shame .....
In school kids are now taught that there are no losers everyone is a winner ...
completely negating the persuance of excellance .........and even basic motivation and ambition .........

Debate and discussion are "not acceptable" any longer if the temperature rises by just a few degrees .........

Sad sad sad ...............

And what of calling someone "gay" ....perhaps the inference was that the recipient was being complemented for just being plain old happy !

A good bit of banter brings out the smart arse in all of us .....making us go the extra mile ...and being a bit more creative with our thoughts ....getting "wound up" about something means we think alot harder about it, explore different angles which would have been other wise untouched............



Perhaps we have a POLL on this and be democratic about the forums feeling towards this kind of "censorship" ????????????

J4L and i have had some bloodbath threads on other forums but we still love each other !!!!!!!!!!!hahaha
And truth be known i think loads of members log in to follow them ...........in amoungst the outbursts (which drive the thread on thru emotion at times) usually come some excellent points and pearls of wisdom........

Are we to lose the opportunity for this ?




The Rodent



PS If you are thinking "you can do all the above with out calling each other names ..........." you have missed the point ...........

mind the gap
01-09-2008, 23:03 PM
And what of calling someone "gay" ....perhaps the inference was that the recipient was being complemented for just being plain old happy !

We both know that was NOT the inference in the homophobic abuse to which I referred, given the context and the rest of the vocabulary used.

By 'complemented' do you mean 'complimented'?

Standards in schools, eh! The pursuit of excellence, eh?

J4L
02-09-2008, 01:26 AM
Rodent and I DO have a few 'choice' discussions on other forums but as he states 'we do still love each other' (well luv NOT love, as my 19 year old explained the 'difference' to me only a few hours ago haha)

I agree with Simon though, getting angry makes you think harder about the subject and it's the real people who can put their hands up and admit that they 1) may be wrong 2)may have infact learnt something.
I've learnt a lot from Simon (don't tell him though please he'll get all smug on me!)

On the spelling issue, this does tickle me when people get things wrong but I have learned (from experience) just to overlook the fact and not say anything after a post I made on a business forum where someone was asking for a good accounting software package. The posters answer read like this
"I would also defiantly recommend Kashflow 2 month trial access your account anywhere . . .

Now obviously he meant DEFINITELY so I had a little laugh with it and he reported me to the moderator for my 'sarcastic' comment.
He also PM'd me saying I was being "derogatory to me and other dyslexic people"

So NOW i Keep schtum/shtoom/stumm (delete for your favourite spelling) :D

mind the gap
02-09-2008, 07:02 AM
Now obviously he meant DEFINITELY so I had a little laugh with it and he reported me to the moderator for my 'sarcastic' comment.
He also PM'd me saying I was being "derogatory to me and other dyslexic people" :D

But 'defiantly' for 'definitely' is rarely the result of dyslexia, so much as lazy usage of the computer's built-in spell-checker facility. It comes from someone typing in 'definatly' and the computer produces something with the nearest vowel or dipthong arrangement. The typist still has to proof-read what it has produced to see if it makes sense.

There are spell-checking programmes on computers which can help dyslexic writers, but they involve a bit of training, I believe.

jeffrey
02-09-2008, 09:10 AM
I'm surprised that no-one has pointed out (so I will) that 'dyslexia' is rarely mis-spelled.

mind the gap
02-09-2008, 11:18 AM
Yes, it's interesting. Similarly, why can most people spell Jade Goody's name correctly but not Shakespeare's?

Just one more symptom of the moral abyss into which we plunge more deeply by the day!

agent46
02-09-2008, 11:37 AM
Yes, it's interesting. Similarly, why can most people spell Jade Goody's name correctly but not Shakespeare's?

Just one more symptom of the moral abyss into which we plunge more deeply by the day!

Have you ever watched the film "Idiocracy"? Rent it - I think you'd like it.

jeffrey
02-09-2008, 11:39 AM
Yes, it's interesting. Similarly, why can most people spell Jade Goody's name correctly but not Shakespeare's?

Just one more symptom of the moral abyss into which we plunge more deeply by the day!
Unfair to the Bard! Even he had several variant spellings of his surname; no-one in those days had to check consistent client ID, obviously.

lorenzo
02-09-2008, 15:47 PM
Unfair to the Bard! Even he had several variant spellings of his surname; no-one in those days had to check consistent client ID, obviously.
In fact the current spelling is never used by his own hand, according to Bill Bryson.

Sorrel
02-09-2008, 16:03 PM
In fact the current spelling is never used by his own hand, according to Bill Bryson.

Should do a land registry check on him...

Rodent1
02-09-2008, 17:54 PM
We both know that was NOT the inference in the homophobic abuse to which I referred, given the context and the rest of the vocabulary used.

By 'complemented' do you mean 'complimented'?

Standards in schools, eh! The pursuit of excellence, eh?
We are entitled to our opinons ..whether they be pc or not........
"i" Not " e" apologies ........

Would suggest 99% of spelling mistakes are down to pure laziness to go back and change them .....I have handed in my mensa membership .....as i am 100% guilty of the above !!!



Re: persuance .........A poem for you .......



Path of Persuance



Thinking of pursuance
like perseverance constant
unlike dreamy intentions
drawn into vines fragile and climbing
holding determined
but empty of environmental confluence
and less driving but meandering
across the stones of time without reward
and less seeking but feeling
constancy as a glimmer
less as a constellation
or culmination of specific branchings of a stream,
unlike a dream
pursuance continues in realism
as a road
built now or followed precisely
toward a purpose
not damning but dawning
and redeeming
its cause

Daniel Aaron Kennedy



The Rodent

mind the gap
02-09-2008, 18:04 PM
We are entitled to our opinons ..whether they be pc or not........

With the greatest respect, O Great Rodent Brain,your opinion is without meaning. The labelling of someone as 'an arsewipe gay' could never make sense as a compliment, unless English semantics are pushed to some bizarre final frontier where no rational person would ever want to go, boldly or otherwise.

Thank you for the poem. It affected me deeply.

For once, I don't know what to say, (...except that this guy had a problem with spelling 'pursuance', too! Is it even a word?)

Rodent1
02-09-2008, 18:11 PM
Would you be offended if i called you "Happy Andrex" ....because i would find it a trifle amusing if i were called either of the above ............

"Pursuance" would appear to have been around since the 1800's and is found more commonly in legal docs ...or so it would appear ....!

I or 'e will continue the pursuance of good natured toilet tissue......!!!!!!!!!

The Rodent

mind the gap
02-09-2008, 18:36 PM
Would you be offended if i called you "Happy Andrex" ............The Rodent

Not so much offended by, as worried about you!

Good luck in your search. Try Kwiksave.