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View Full Version : Ex-tenant refuses to rake her stuff



jim hare
30-11-2005, 06:15 AM
I have recently evicted a tenant and her boyfriend (on 3/11/2005) and they refuse to remove all of their furniture and belongings.The council rehoused them,firstly in a B&B and now in temporary accommodation in a high rise flat.The tenant refuses to take items of furniture with her (sofa,wardrobe,table and chairs) as she says she does not have room for them and does not want them until she is housed permanently (which might be never if the council decide not to offer her permanent accommodation).They also refuse to redirect their giros to the new address.This caused a problem recently when I was away as the boyfriend kicked in the front door to rerieve his giro.It is likely to cause problems with council tax as well as the local council use benefit information to determine occupancy.I have made a complaint to the Police about the boyfriend's criminal damage and unauthorised entry but they do nothing to help.I have since discovered that the boyfriend has been entering the property at will by leaving a window open after his first forced entry.Lpcking the windows and doors seems pointless anyway as he gets away with simply kicking his way in anyway.Any advice would br greatly welcomed.

MrShed
30-11-2005, 09:42 AM
Thoughts:

- You do need to hold onto this stuff for a while. You cant just get rid straight away....I believe it is usually said around 3 months. After this time you can sell it though!

- I would put them in storage, keep the receipts, and sue them for the cost when they finally do collect the stuff. Inform them you are going to do this, might make them move it quicker.

- With regards the giro, send it back when it gets received stating no longer at this address. Or ring the council and tell them this. If you do have a new address for them, I would recommend you don't tell the council it, as it isn't any of your business.

- The police would have charged him if they had evidence/proof. So I am guessing that they have neither, so only you suspicion(probably correct) that the tenant did this, which obviously they cannot charge him for!

jim hare
30-11-2005, 11:37 AM
Mr Shed thanks.Responding to your reply :-
If I put their stuff in storage I will NEVER get a penny of the cost back.Is the three month limit some sort of legal thing?The police are not interested unless they can get a witness to his 'break-ins'.I think this is a very poor attitude on their part as it means he can waltz in and out of my property at will.He did this last night whilst I was there and threatened to shoot me (he is a crack addict).
Vis a vis the giros I will inform the council that they no longer live here and maybe they will act on this.

MrShed
30-11-2005, 11:41 AM
- The three months is a guideline....you have to keep the property for a reasonable period of time. It is a choice between keeping it in storage for this time or leave it in your property.

- I do not believe this is a poor attitude on the part of the police, if every person was arrested based upon an allegation and suspicion only, then we would be in a police state. It goes without saying that the police act upon actual evidence. If you suspect it may happen again, put a CCTV camera at your front door...very cheap! Or put a good lock on the door, if he could kick it in then you do not have good enough locks. Get a deadbolt.

justaboutsane
30-11-2005, 12:37 PM
The Giros are with Social not council! If you can find anything in the property with a number on it you should call the local job centre and inform them that they have gone.

If they are still getting housing benefit then you should inform the council.

For the length of time the belongings are in the property I would still charge them rent, you can't rent it out so why should you be burdened with the cost. If they are on benefits you may never see your monies. Maybe you can call the council and request advise as they have now been housed, even if they don't want to be there, the council may be able to tell them that they need to remove their belongings. When we evict a tenant we always state they have 14 days to remove the belongings, if they do not contact us within those 14 days the belongings are removed. No landlord should be expected to store belongings once a tenant has been evicted its pure madness, but then such is the world we live in!

Who said Cheats never prosper!

MrShed
30-11-2005, 12:40 PM
For the length of time the belongings are in the property I would still charge them rent, you can't rent it out so why should you be burdened with the cost. If they are on benefits you may never see your monies. Maybe you can call the council and request advise as they have now been housed, even if they don't want to be there, the council may be able to tell them that they need to remove their belongings. When we evict a tenant we always state they have 14 days to remove the belongings, if they do not contact us within those 14 days the belongings are removed. No landlord should be expected to store belongings once a tenant has been evicted its pure madness, but then such is the world we live in!


You speak good common sense JSA :) but unfortunately that is not the way the law works :D

Jennifer_M
30-11-2005, 12:55 PM
I do not believe this is a poor attitude on the part of the police, if every person was arrested based upon an allegation and suspicion only, then we would be in a police state. It goes without saying that the police act upon actual evidence.

So when you get burgled you need to take a copy of the burglars' ID with a picture and a signed statement that they really burgled your house?
This is what it is: forced entry and theft of the mail.

But to be honest I'm not surprised the police isn't interested. There's no money to be made in solving the problem.
They don't even come out when you tell them some yobs are threatening to break your car; their answer is "They haven't commited any offence yet". Basically call us back when your car has been wrecked, anti social behaviour is just a myth.

- Rant over -

MrShed
30-11-2005, 12:57 PM
Come on, thats somewhat cynical! The police are not going to arrest someone on some suspicion that the victim thinks that may have been the person who did it. They need hard evidence, of course. And so they should. There are a lot of other forms of evidence other than them confessing or similar.

Jennifer_M
30-11-2005, 13:11 PM
Come on, thats somewhat cynical! The police are not going to arrest someone on some suspicion that the victim thinks that may have been the person who did it. They need hard evidence, of course. And so they should. There are a lot of other forms of evidence other than them confessing or similar.

What about investigating ? Or are civilians the ones supposed to find the proofs ?
There are reasonable reasons to suspect the ex tenant if all that's missing is their mail and Giro.

What kind of a burglar would break in to steal the mail leaving the rest of the tenant belongings there ?
Easy way for the police to check is if the tenant got his money somehow even though the mail is sent to the old house: how did he get the mail?
But again, no money to be made by the police so tough!

justaboutsane
30-11-2005, 13:15 PM
Ok, A rant and a comment!

The police are stretched and they cannot do the jobs we PAY tem to do... yes you know that portion of our council tax is payment to police! therefore WE employ them! I called the police, some local yobs at 3.20 in the afternoon were holding fireworks in their hands and setting light to them. I called the police as my 6 year old daughter was petrified as we were walking home and this is the only way to get home. I told the police the names of some of he youths, I have a 12 year old brother who is at school with them... Yes they were 12. Anyhow they kept going.. 2 hours later they were putting the fireworks in bins and setting them off, throwing them at Buses and all sorts. Despite there being cctv cameras pointed at them NOTHING was done..

In your case surely the police can come and send SOCO or whatever they are called now! They could collect evidence to find out, maybe even neighbours saw them.. To not come full stopis very bad. A break in is a break in no matter what. Someone must have seen them going in. You can buy neat little alarms that do not need much wiring in, they are mobile, we used one recently in one of our properties. We let the neighbour know how we could be contacted and to date we have been trouble free. Will see if I can get our contractor to let me know where he got it!!

jim hare
30-11-2005, 22:09 PM
Thanks to all for your responses.The door was a UPVC one with a sealed middle panel.They are very common and it is easy to kick in the middle of them (as I have found out to my cost).The only items missing or even touched were the tenant's and boyfriend's giros.They even went to the police to report them as stolen and I suspect they were paid again!I am still confused vis a vis storage of the tenant's furniture.My point is that they have enough space for it in the accommodation they now occupy but will not accept it.I should be entitled to deliver it to their door and leave them to deal with it.How is this unreasonable in these circumstances?

P.Pilcher
01-12-2005, 00:19 AM
There was a long thread some time ago where, I think it was Paul F, described what the law requires you to do under these circumstances. You will need to search to find the original post, but I think the law requires you to notify the tenant twice that they must collect their goods within I think it was seven days, after which they would be put into storage at the ex-tenant's expense. If they failed to collect the goods by the time the cost of the storage equalled the value of the goods these would be disposed of to defray storage costs. The ex-tenant in any case would have to pay the storage costs before the goods were collected.

The original post may have been on the old forum.

P.P.

Found it! The search engine gave the following reference containing advice from DavidJohnButton and others

http://www.landlordhelp.co.uk/discus/messages/668/2946.html?1098547361

Jodie
01-12-2005, 10:28 AM
Have you tried calling the homeless department of the council and explaining what has happened? I thought they were under a duty to store tenants belongings while they are in temporary accommodation.

jim hare
01-12-2005, 16:06 PM
PPilcher - Thanks very much.This is not very practical as I have no idea how much the tenant's belongings are worth.I suspect it is not much.Second hand furniture is not very valuable.

Jodie - Thanks.I will try this.

ivrytwr3
02-12-2005, 06:17 AM
er...........how hard could this police investigation be? Like previous posts have said, all that is taken is the giro.

So when was the giro cashed and how did said scumbag get the giro?

There's certainly enough evidence there for the police to arrest for suspicion.

PS 1st time poster and 1st time landlord (property goes up for let in Jan 06 and i'm terrified!!!)

P.Pilcher
03-12-2005, 00:51 AM
For heavens sake Ivrytwr3, don't be terrified - you have the contributors to this board to help you and by finding it you have done more than most new landlords! Remember that most tenants are fair, reasonable and decent, it is just the few troublemakers whose deeds are posted here so please don't think that all tenants behave like those you read about here! Study the whole board carefully, cut and paste some bits you think important, get yourself a good agent - and the board will tell you how to do this. Take your agent's advice and you should have few problems. Any questions that you can't answer by using the search engine - just post here and we will do our best to help.

P.P.