Agent not paying Rent to Landlord

[sc52]

Hi,

Despite numerous telephone calls, calling at their office in person and promises from the Agent to pay, the rent is now 4 months in arrears. I no longer get monthly statements from them and I'm beginning to wonder if they are in financial difficulty.

I have therefore decided to do a Moneyclaim online and to take the property away from them.

The property is tenanted (I don't know by whom) and the AST (I have never seen) has run for longer than 6 months and is now Periodic.

How exactly should I go about getting my property back (still tenanted if poss)? What documents should I be asking the agents for?

Do I have to allow them any time to do this or can I just go into their office and demand it all?

What should I do if the Agents are uncooperative?

Thanks

SC

[J4L]

check your contract with the agent initially, you may find that you've signed to give them a months notice or something similar.
Visit the office and demand payment for what you're owed or threaten Debt collection agency.
Visit your property, Take some ID with you so they know who you are, maybe a mortgage statement with your details on. Put this in writing aswell serve section 48 (as you don't know if the original AST had your details on it.)speak to the tenants and tell them that you no longer require them to pay the agent any rent and that they should pay you directly.
Explain to the Tenants that you are no longer happy with the service that this agent is offering and reassure them that you would love to keep them as Tenants and that the changeover will not affect their stay.
Personally I would take copies of any rent books that the LA issued proving that they have indeed paid the rent to the agent (bank statements if they pay by S/O) and inform the Tenants that they should on no account give the rent book to the agent as this is their only proof that they have paid.
If the LA ARE in financial difficulty you'll be surprised the lengths they may go to to get out of paying you. If they get their hands on the rent book they may 'lose' it and tell you that the Tenant hasn't paid them for 4 months.

You should be able to demand everything (paperwork) regarding the let, but don't be surprised if you get nothing.

To throw your weight a little I'd be mentioning the police, fraud, deception, AND money laundering to this agent along with Debt Collection Agency, and court if necessary.
Find out if they are members of a regulated body also and threaten to inform them of these inappropriate practices.

I wouldn't go down the moneyclaim route 'quite' yet, use the above and I'm sure you'll get a quicker response.


Can you tell I've DONE this!! :D

[sc52]

Hi J4L, thanks for the speedy response.

With regard to the Tenancy Agreement - should I start a new one with current Tenants or can the existing one keep running?

What happens with the Tenants Deposit (I haven't a clue where the Agents have placed it) - does this get handed back to me or to the tenants or stay where it is? What say do I have over this and what's the best course of action?

I've looked at the contract between myself and the agent and there is no mention of any notice period for terminating it. Is there a statutory period or can I literally do it with immediate effect?

Not sure if there is a rent book etc - but will do as you say and visit the tenants.

Re Section 48 - is there a set form or do I just write a letter (hand delivered when I meet the tenants) stating my name and contact details?

Thanks

SC

[J4L]

Personally i'd leave it for now and just leave it on a periodic. Make sure though the Agent doesn't approach the T and get them to sign a new contract because you may find them trying to charge you then for a further 6months commission. (Obviously you'd not pay it but they'll use this argument and the figure to try and reduce the monies they owe you already)

Once you've sorted the agent out you and the Tenants can decide if you'd like to renew or leave it roll on.

With regard to the deposit the agent should tell you where it is placed, if they don't the Tenants should've been informed when they moved in so they should know. If you don't get any joy from either party i'd suggest that the agent didn't infact protect it.
At the end of the day the money actually belongs to the tenants so you'd need their written permission to move it from one scheme to another or if you use the same scheme, to transfer the money into your account.

My gut reaction to the contract issue would be that if it ain't in there there's no notice period required so just pull the plug!!

A lot of agents use rent books if they go collecting the monthly rent, others use the S/O route. If there's neither you (and the Tenant) could be in a bit of trouble attempting to prove that rent was actually handed over.

Hopefully there'll be a nice paper trail for you to follow somewhere.


With regard to the s48 there is no prescribed format but if you include this line(s) in your letter I understand that this should suffice.


Under Section 48 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 I notify you that the Landlord’s address given above is the address at which notices (including notices in proceedings) can be served on the landlord. (The landlord can also be contacted by Email [insert address] or telephone [insert telephone number])

If you need anything else please ask.
And of course let us know how it goes.

[sc52]

Thanks again J4L,

Just to confirm. When I visit the Agent I need to demand the following -

AST
Copy of the signed / agreed Inventory
Gas and Elec Certificates
Copy of the deposit protection certificate

Anything else?

The Agent clearly holds the tenancy agreement (which they will have signed on my behalf). What happens if they don't give it? How will I stand with the tenants if I can't produce it?

Thanks again for your help

SC

[jeffrey]

Under Section 48 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 I notify you that the Landlord’s address given above is the address at which notices (including notices in proceedings) can be served on the landlord.
Remember that the address must be in England and Wales.

[J4L]

Thanks again J4L,

Just to confirm. When I visit the Agent I need to demand the following -

AST
Copy of the signed / agreed Inventory
Gas and Elec Certificates
Copy of the deposit protection certificate

Anything else?

The Agent clearly holds the tenancy agreement (which they will have signed on my behalf). What happens if they don't give it? How will I stand with the tenants if I can't produce it?

Thanks again for your help

SC

Hi SC
AST - yes, this is so important as if you have problems with the tenant you could have further troubles evicting using the accelerated procedure.
The inventory is a must (if there was one)
Gas certificates are required annually and thus he should have one so the Landlords copy should be with him. He may not have an electrical certificate, not mandatory, but check back on any statements to see if you've been charged for performing one.
Deposit- Get as much info as you can for this, there may not actually be a certificate, it's dependant on where it was protected.

Realistically you should have been sent copies of all these at the start of the Tenancy, although there are a lot of agents that don't do it and a lot of LL's who don't request it.

If all else fails I'd be tempted to re sign the Tenants into a new agreement with yourself and provide a letter as an aside releasing them from any agreement they originally signed.

[johnboy]

Just remind them that legally you are the client who has instructed them to work for you and you are legally intitled to ALL paperwork relating to the property they manage for you. Do not let them spout off about data protection act blah blah. It doesnt apply in regard to what you are asking for.

[J4L]

Absolutely JohnBoy but we all know that things get conveniently 'lost' when either the agent doesn't want you to have them or indeed 'they' didn't do them in the first place.

[sc52]

Hi,

Thanks for everyone's help on this matter

Just to bring you up to date -

I followed the advice given in this thread. The reason I haven't updated it before, is that things were on-going.

Basically, last Friday, I went into the agents an hour before closing,with a witness, and demanded my money. I was given a whole load of reasons as to why it couldn't be given/had been paid. So I (we) just went and sat down and refused to move.

Eventually the Police were called in by the agent and rather than me just be escorted off the premises the policeman (plain clothes) took an interest and got the Agent to agree that the matter would be resolved by today (Friday)......

Whilst I was there, I informed the Agent that I was giving notice that I was taking the property away from them.

Initially,the Agent refused to give me even a photocopy of the tenancy, but with the police fast arriving, relented and gave me the original. I also got a photocopy of the Itinerary but nothing else.

However, the Tenancy agreement itself makes no mention of me at all. Indeed the the Agent was insistent that the tenancy was between the tenant and the agent and nothing to do with me!!

When I asked about where the Deposit was being held, I was informed that there wasn't one; in that the tenant had paid 4 months rent in advance and that these would be returned at the end of the tenancy. Sounds suspiciously like a deposit to me!! No mention of a deposit in the tenancy agreement.

What should now happen if I try and re-sign the tenants? The agent will insist upon notice as he states that he is the landlord and probably won't release the "4 months Rent". He will no doubt use it to cover the rent he is due.

And finally, no I haven't received any payments. I am told there is a Recorded Delivery in the post, but I guess that as what rent I have received hasn't been paid by cheque, it certainly won't be money. The Agents have had a week to think things over and have no doubt got another "good reason" as to why I haven't received anything. They've tried the "you've already been paid" one now it may well be the "tenants haven't paid" one!!

Please advise.

SC

[jeffrey]

What should now happen if I try and re-sign the tenants? The agent will insist upon notice as he states that he is the landlord and probably won't release the "4 months Rent". He will no doubt use it to cover the rent he is due.
Nonsense. You own the property; A does not. You receive its rents and profits; A does not. You are L; A is not. Get rid of A (lawfully!) asap.

[sc52]

Nonsense. You own the property; A does not. You receive its rents and profits; A does not. You are L; A is not. Get rid of A (lawfully!) asap.

Thanks Jeffrey,

I've told them that I'm taking the property back with immediate effect. There is no mention of any notice period in the agreement - indeed the agent doesn't have a copy of the agreement anymore - gave them both to me!

My problem is the deposit issue - how can I re-sign the tenants if the agent is holding it? (4 months rent in advance that is) Or is this a case of getting rid of them - can I issue a section 21 (tenancy now periodic) even though my name isn't on the tenancy agreement? Or does the agent have to do it? Lets face it he's hardly going to be helpful now - he wasn't to begin with.

I'm going to go the MCOL route re unpaid rent but the agent is a Ltd company - I take it if they decide to fold the company I haven't got a leg to stand on?

Whilst in their office I was aware of the number of other landlords phoning trying to reach the accounts dept and being given responses that were clearly untrue as to peoples whereabouts. At what point is what the agent trading fraudulently? If it is fraud who should be informed?

I'm also going to visit the tenants today, with hopefully enough information to assure them as to who I am, and try and get evidence from them of monies paid to the agent to date. Not sure how I will fair - If somebody just appeared on my doorstep I don't think I'd be too forthcoming!!

(Is there anybody that the agents can be reported to with regard to the "deposit"?)

Thanks

SC

[J4L]

SC

This is just a simple case of the Agent trying to pull the wool . . .

You should demand the 4 months rent immediately (to be honest I think you should have had this initially if they are saying that's what it was taken for.)

At the 'very least' all they can 'try' and take from that money is their commission for the 4 months but i'd be loathe to fall for that one as you have now given them notice.
On the notice situation you say "There is no mention of any notice period in the agreement - indeed the agent doesn't have a copy of the agreement anymore - gave them both to me!"
Are you talking about an agreement(contract) between you and the Agent or are you referring to the tenancy agreement here? It sounds like the latter from reading your posts.
If it is, don't get mixed up with agreements/contracts between you and the agent and you and the Tenant. These are 2 completely different things.
There will be no mention of notice period from you to the Agent written in the Tenancy agreement. You should/would have a separate contract with the Agent when you agreed for them to act on your behalf initially.

I wouldn't go down the MCOL route 'quite' yet, it appears your 'sit in' had the desired affect so go for that one again.

With regard to signing the Tenant in again, you don't need to, you already have an agreement in place.
When did/does their fixed tenancy end or has it already?

With regard to speaking to the T's, good idea.
Take some form of ID with you to verify who you are and maybe take a mortgage statement to prove you own the house. Or spend £3 on the Land Registry site and get a print off showing you as the owner.
Once this has all blown over with the Agent you and the Tenants can decide where you would like to go with this.
Protect any deposits you agree on, and sign them into a new agreement if that's what both sides wish.