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View Full Version : Agent issued defective Notices, accepted defective ID


yod9999
11-08-2008, 09:01 AM
Hi

I'm new here, so hello and thanks in advance for any advice that people may be able to give me.

I let my house out 3 months ago using a local agent who offered a full management option. They seems very professional at the time and I was happy with the service. The agent recommended that I take out rental guarantee and legal protection insurance with Rentguard which they arranged for me.

The tenancy began on 29/3/08, with the tenant paying rent in advance. The tenant is an AST for 12 months with no break clause. The last rental payment was received on or around 29/5/08 (I believe it was actually a few days late). On 29/7/08 the agent issued the tenant with a Section 8 noticed under grounds 8, 10 & 11.

A couple of problems have since emerged:
- the section 8 expiry date has been given as 28/9/08. I have no idea why they have given the tenant 2 months rather than the 2 weeks which I understand is the minimum required.
- they have also issued the agent with a section 21 notice which also exires on 28/9/08. My understanding was that this could not be issued until there was less than 2 months remaining on the tenancy
- (the most serious problem in my view) the insurance requires that I supply 2 forms of ID of the tenant to make the claim, one including a clear photograph. I contacted the agent to request this and they supplied me a poor copy of a fax of a copy of her passport. This is completely unreadable (I cannot even make our her name) and the photograph is unrecognizable.

I have spoken to them about the last point and this is the only form of photographic ID they have for her. Based on this it is likely that the insurance company will refuse the claim, so not only will I have to pay for the legal cost of gaining possesion, but also I will lose an extra 6 weeks rent due to the S8 expiring after 2 months rather than 2 weeks.

Can anyone recommend a course of action for me to follow now. In my opinion the agents have failed to do their job properly and failed to fully identify the tenant, and because of this it looks like I will be further out of pocket and inconvenienced. Would it be worth me taking legal advise with a view to taking the agent to court to reclaim the eviction costs/lost rent?

The agents service has been unsatifactory in a number of other ways as well (lost keys/failing to perform inspections/failed to keep my informed of the situation) but the issues list above are the most serious.

Apologies for the length of this post. I thought I had a bad story to tell, but having read some of the other posts in here it seems that I've got off relatively lightly. Doesn't make me any less annoyed though :mad:

Again, thanks in advance for any advice.

Cheers

Neil
jeffrey
11-08-2008, 10:10 AM
A couple of problems have since emerged:
- the section 8 expiry date has been given as 28/9/08. I have no idea why they have given the tenant 2 months rather than the 2 weeks which I understand is the minimum required.
- they have also issued the agent with a section 21 notice which also exires on 28/9/08. My understanding was that this could not be issued until there was less than 2 months remaining on the tenancy.
Section 8: you are right. The minimum Notice period is two weeks for g8/10/11.
Section 21: you are wrong. The Notice can be issued at any time during or after the fixed term.
yod9999
11-08-2008, 10:31 AM
Section 21: you are wrong. The Notice can be issued at any time during or after the fixed term.

Sorry, I was mistaken there. Is it not the case however that although the S21 can be issued at any time it cannot expire until the end of the tenancy?
jeffrey
11-08-2008, 11:09 AM
Sorry, I was mistaken there. Is it not the case however that although the S21 can be issued at any time it cannot expire until the end of the tenancy?
Yes, as follows:

Served during term [s.21(1)(b)]:
If it's served > two months before expiry of term, Notice takes effect on expiry date.
If it's served during final two months, Notice takes effect two months from service.

Served after term expires [s.21(4)(a)]:
Notice takes effect at least two months from service PLUS up to end of the then-current periodic tenancy period.
yod9999
11-08-2008, 11:17 AM
Yes, as follows:

Served during term [s.21(1)(b)]:
If it's served > two months before expiry of term, Notice takes effect on expiry date.
If it's served during final two months, Notice takes effect two months from service.

Served after term expires [s.21(4)(a)]:
Notice takes effect at least two months from service PLUS up to end of the then-current periodic tenancy period.

thanks, it becomes a little bit clearer.

do you have any advice on what would be the bext way to proceed with this if the insurance failed to pay out? do I have any kind of case against the agent, or am I best off just putting this down to experience and not going near them again...

Cheers
jeffrey
11-08-2008, 11:27 AM
thanks, it becomes a little bit clearer.

do you have any advice on what would be the bext way to proceed with this if the insurance failed to pay out? do I have any kind of case against the agent, or am I best off just putting this down to experience and not going near them again...

Cheers
If you can prove that A has fallen short of its duty to you, complain. Is it in breach of its contractual obligations, for instance?
johnboy
11-08-2008, 16:24 PM
Why not get a another section 8 served with the required 2 weeks and 2 days for service sent out? I cant see there being a prob with that but if there is i am sure someone will point it out.
yod9999
11-08-2008, 18:05 PM
Why not get a another section 8 served with the required 2 weeks and 2 days for service sent out? I cant see there being a prob with that but if there is i am sure someone will point it out.

I wasn't sure if it was possible to do that once one had already been issued. I have no idea why they've served it with an expiry of 2 months rather than 2 weeks. I've been trying to speak to them but the person that deals with this stuff is off sick (again). It might be that this is to give the legal people time to deal with the situation, however if they've managed to prevent me from using the legal cover by failing to identify the tenant properly then I'll definitely try and get this re-served.

Are there any legal requirements regarding identifying the tenant and referencing. Someone suggested to me that there might be something to do with money laundering, but I'm not sure about this.

Cheers for your interest.
yod9999
12-08-2008, 09:00 AM
A little update if anyone's interested. Two more things have now come to light:

1 - the S8 was actually issued without an expiry date i.e. no date was entered in part 5, so it's probably invalid anyway

2 - the reason that the expiry for the S8 was 2 months is because the form used by the agent is incorrect. The first line of the first point in part 5 of the agent's form reads:


Where the landlord is seeking possession on grounds 1, 2, 5 to 9 or 16, proceedings cannot begin earlier that 2 months from the date of this notice is served

whereas the form from the the RLA (which I assume to be correct as this matches the information I've received from every other source) reads:


Where the landlord is seeking possession on grounds 1, 2, 5 to 7, 9 or 16, court proceedings cannot begin earlier than 2 months from the date this notice is served

The one the agent used includes ground 8, the one from the RLA doesn't. There's also a random "of" in there which is not a typo on my part.

It looks to me like they have just messed up again.

:mad:
jeffrey
12-08-2008, 09:21 AM
Yes. The RLA version is correct, as it follows the wording of s.8(4A) of Housing Act 1988.
yod9999
12-08-2008, 09:28 AM
Yes. The RLA version is correct, as it follows the wording of s.8(4A) of Housing Act 1988.

Thanks. I presume that the absense of the expiry date being entered in part 5 would mean that a judge would be able to throw this out of court?
jeffrey
12-08-2008, 09:34 AM
Thanks. I presume that the absense of the expiry date being entered in part 5 would mean that a judge would be able to throw this out of court?
Probably, unless it's a printed form with "reserve" wording printed too.
yod9999
12-08-2008, 09:36 AM
Probably, unless it's a printed form with "reserve" wording printed too.

Sorry, I'm afraid I don't understand this. Please could you clarify. It is a template form similar to the RLA one that has been filled in by computer/typewriter.
jeffrey
12-08-2008, 09:51 AM
Some versions of s.8 Notice have fully-printed notes explaining re which periods apply to which grounds. If those are present, they might save a Notice otherwise doomed to be invalid for lack of a date. The form which my suppliers supply does, and it also sets out the full text of all grounds. Perhaps the RLA's doesn't!
yod9999
12-08-2008, 10:05 AM
Some versions of s.8 Notice have fully-printed notes explaining re which periods apply to which grounds. If those are present, they might save a Notice otherwise doomed to be invalid for lack of a date. The form which my suppliers supply does, and it also sets out the full text of all grounds. Perhaps the RLA's doesn't!

There is a section describing this, but unfortunately it's incorrect as mentioned in my earlier post.


2 - the reason that the expiry for the S8 was 2 months is because the form used by the agent is incorrect. The first line of the first point in part 5 of the agent's form reads:


Where the landlord is seeking possession on grounds 1, 2, 5 to 9 or 16, proceedings cannot begin earlier that 2 months from the date of this notice is served



Thanks for your advice by the way. In your opinion should I be looking at speaking to (and paying!) a solicitor at this point?