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View Full Version : AST- for 6 months but T won't go- is s.21 a must ?



storex7
14-11-2005, 19:32 PM
If a landlord feel for whatever reason, not to renew a tenant's Ast contract after the six months expiry date, is the landlord obliged to keep the tenant if he doesn't want to move ?
Should the 2 months notice of "section 21" still be served after the six months, when talking is not enough ?

dazalock
14-11-2005, 19:57 PM
I think what your asking is can you stay in the accomodation even if the LL wants you out?

Provided the LL gives you a S21 and is served with the correct notice at the end of, or after the AST expires, you should leave. You can of course stay, but you will be taken to court and evicted by the bayliff.

Talking is never enough, proper notice in writing is the only safe route.

PaulF
14-11-2005, 23:15 PM
dazalock, you've given a most confusing answer to a confusing question. It's mumbo-jumbo!

The poster doesn't say if he is the landlord or the tenant and your answer is all over the place if I might say so!

storex7
15-11-2005, 08:01 AM
Hi

Little explanation

Yes i am a landlord and this tenant is a nice smiling man, but he smokes not cigarettes and many of his friends hang around the property giving him strange packages; lately he has discovered his passion for music and would like to be a D.J. , therefore from10am to 3/4pm he of course practices with his music, and other tenants complain to me .

HIs contract expires the 20th of this month and the guy likes the property and wouldn't like to move ; Also when he came to me the first time, he was dressing smart, and he provided fake references saying he was a dealing with sales and soon after he was on benefits .
He doesn't like to work in other words .
I would like him out with the correct procedure for the good of other quiet tenants and for me .

I have already told him that when his contract expires, i will not renew the tenancy and he felt a bit down, but have to say he has not been rude to me .
I am just preparing myself in case he doesn't want to leave
Therefore the correct way to put my question is exactly as dazalock said.

- Will the tenant have to live if i don't want to renew the tenancy ?
- And if he doesn't, Will I have to serve the notice, after the expiry of the Ast, therefore giving him two months notice ?
- Meanwhile the notice is being given, can I start the procedure for the eviction soon, or will i have to wait till the "end two the months notice"

and please allow me to ask more ...
- If i want a tenant out for whatever reason ( which could be, an extension planned to the house by the side of his room/ house for sale/ urgent repairs/ etc..).before the expiry of the 6 months contract, can i still serve the s21 , or S21 work only after the expiry of the Ast ?
- Last question will be : Regarding tenant's violent behaviour what can a landlord do ? Does the landlord have to wait till the end of the Ast to evict the tenant, or can he start soon, especially if other tenants put the landlord under pressure and complain everyday ?

Thank you

dazalock
15-11-2005, 08:13 AM
dazalock, you've given a most confusing answer to a confusing question. It's mumbo-jumbo!

The poster doesn't say if he is the landlord or the tenant and your answer is all over the place if I might say so!

Disagree, the question was confusing and therefore I replied with a question to clarify, rather than wait for an answer, I answered it myself. Thanks for your input, maybe a answer to the posters second confusing set of questions would be of more use rather than using red pen over my attempt to help.

MrShed
15-11-2005, 08:43 AM
Hi

- Will the tenant have to live if i don't want to renew the tenancy ?

Eventually yes, but not immediately.

- And if he doesn't, Will I have to serve the notice, after the expiry of the Ast, therefore giving him two months notice ?

Yes.

- Meanwhile the notice is being given, can I start the procedure for the eviction soon, or will i have to wait till the "end two the months notice"

No.

and please allow me to ask more ...
- If i want a tenant out for whatever reason ( which could be, an extension planned to the house by the side of his room/ house for sale/ urgent repairs/ etc..).before the expiry of the 6 months contract, can i still serve the s21 , or S21 work only after the expiry of the Ast ?

After expiry of fixed term of AST ONLY.....why do you think the fixed term is there??

- Last question will be : Regarding tenant's violent behaviour what can a landlord do ? Does the landlord have to wait till the end of the Ast to evict the tenant, or can he start soon, especially if other tenants put the landlord under pressure and complain everyday ?

End of AST. If it is serious enough contact the police, if not then you really don't have all that much to worry about. In theory, depending upon the terms of the AST, you could attempt an eviction for breach of tenancy agreement, but I wouldn't fancy your chances.

Thank you

At the risk of another ear bashing, I can't help but repeat what I said on your other thread.....are you SURE you are ready to be a landlord??

Hope the above helps however.

MrShed
15-11-2005, 08:44 AM
Quick point.....you have said serve the notice "after" the expiry of the AST. No. Serve it before, to expire on the 20th of January 2006. If you serve it afterwards, then you will have to wait until 20th Feb. Search the forums for the wording required for a S21.

PaulF
15-11-2005, 09:22 AM
Mr Shed you are making the same mistake as dazalock by not thinking it through before giving your advice!

The tenancy is still within the fixed term so the landlord can serve Notice S.21 (1)(b) NOW to expire two months from the date of service, so while the poor poster has been waiting for a reply he is delaying the possibility of an earlier repossession date. Serve the Notice today 15th personally on the tenant in his hand before 5.00p.m. and the Notice will expire "after 15th January, 2006".

It doesn't have to end at the end of a rental period if Notice is served within the fixed term, only when it has become periodic!

The number of times I have posted how to serve a S.21 and yet regular posters still give poor (and dubious) advice. That's why I wanted the original question clarified.

MrShed
15-11-2005, 09:44 AM
Apologies, was not aware of the notice not having to be at the end of a rental period if served within a fixed term....thanks for clarifying!

lucid
15-11-2005, 12:24 PM
Hang on... :confused:

From this thread:
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1202&page=2


Originally Posted by storex7
Sorry, i must have misunderstood you . I own a 3 bed property and I occupy one of the rooms , got three fantastic tenants who help me to pay the mortgage under a normal Ast, or i think to be normal ; I just wanted to download a real copy, as i wanted to compare it with mine .
Being a landlord when you're busy is not my cup of tea, and quitting the job to become a landlord is not wise . I don't understand how other investors say that they got one property south, two north, and three east ... How can they manage all this ?
If i can buy another property and give it to the letting agent, that will help and will make me rest friday and saturday after work . All i can do is keep on reading the book about tenancy laws and perhaps as one of you said, subscribing to landlord's protection scheme for £ 60 something a year.

So this is the same property as from the other thread that storex lives in but has issued ASTs to??

Have we established whether these are tenants or lodgers yet..re the other thread about all this from Painsmith email etc.

storex7
15-11-2005, 14:07 PM
All of you are really amazing and precise too.

ThanKs to u Mr shed of course.
Being a Landlord ? No, i don't think so ; I like more auctions and developements ; No hassle there, you just have to wait for the property to be sold, and to cash you profit after tax .


Lucid mate

I am sure i might use you as a private investigator in future, but for now i need only advises.
Regards

Energise
15-11-2005, 14:36 PM
Lucid mate

I am sure i might use you as a private investigator in future, but for now i need only advises.
Regards

You cant get the correct "advises" unless you provide full information.

RichieP
15-11-2005, 19:53 PM
There was a man liked advises
Who had balls of different sizes
One was small, and was nothing at all
But the other was large And won prizes

lucid
16-11-2005, 20:37 PM
There was an unfair term.
It was written in the lease.
The tenant did complain
at first unto the police.
"No No good sir not us,
it is a civil matter.
Go see your solicitor
and have a litter natter."

So off the tenant went,
itching as he walked,
to see his new advisor
so they could have their little talk.
He told him of the term,
how now he felt quite queasy.
He was worried about the stubble,
but at the time the term was easy.

The solicitor agreed
this term was most unfair.
But there was little he could do now
as the tenant was quite bare.
This term was most unusual,
open to interpretation,
but binding on the tenant,
was it some form of flagellation?

He had snipped, trimmed and sheared
until no follicle was left,
and had followed AST instructions
and covered every cleft.
The landlord had an aversion,
although it was quite weird
to all forms of bristle,
fringe or even beard.

The tenant had accepted
his contractual obligation,
to use the landlords razor
before taking occupation.
So now the tenant he did vacate,
with despondence and despair
How he wished he hadn't shaved.
and still had some scrotum hair.

So the moral of this story,
although it might seem churlish.
Is be careful how you go
or you’ll lose your short and curlys.
Read all terms thoroughly
and avoid contractual vices.
And when following instructions
take care with your advises.

storex7
17-11-2005, 16:20 PM
The situation is actualy changed
You see i post always before things happen, as i can almost predict them.

The contract of the tenant will expiry the 6th of december ( sorry I did a mistake before i said the 16 ? )
HI is on benefits, but declared to me the first month he was working in sales...only 15 later he applied for benefits. I did ask for references but he always said to me : I'll give you later , later , later ..never of course .

- When the tenancy will expiry I will give him one month notice, as written on my contract, but to tell you the truth i have verbally told him already, that he'll be out by the 6th of january . The real written notice will be handled the sixth of december .
When the tenancy is finished, is finished !! Why so many individuals keep on finding excuses and bother the landlords .
Isn't it six months tenancy and that's it ?!!
He's looking for excuses that he's going to report this to the benefits and this and that, but i told him that in my house i follow what's written on the contract and you go the sixth of January .


Excuse me guys, but i don't get one thing . Why when a tenant signs a contract for six months, i will have to give him the notice only at the end of the sixth month..mathematic tells me that that is seven months , and what if he doesn't pay rent, that makes it 8 months ?? ( 4 weeks by the time is evicted !!

storex7
17-11-2005, 16:23 PM
There was a man liked advises
Who had balls of different sizes
One was small, and was nothing at all
But the other was large And won prizes
Poor don't help with the real question he'd better not to answer

MrShed
17-11-2005, 16:24 PM
Poor don't help with the real question he'd better not to answer

Storex....have a sense of humour :)

MrShed
17-11-2005, 16:27 PM
- When the tenancy will expiry I will give him one month notice, as written on my contract, but to tell you the truth i have verbally told him already, that he'll be out by the 6th of january . The real written notice will be handled the sixth of december .


Excuse me guys, but i don't get one thing . Why when a tenant signs a contract for six months, i will have to give him the notice only at the end of the sixth month..mathematic tells me that that is seven months , and what if he doesn't pay rent, that makes it 8 months ?? ( 4 weeks by the time is evicted !!

Storex you give him that month notice if you wish. Is up to you. But it does not then give you any legal footing whatsoever to evict on. You must give 2 months notice on a valid Section 21 to do this. Of course if he leaves in the month then that is fine, but if not then you have wasted yourself a month.

And no you should not have given him the notice at the end of the 6th month. You should have given it no later than the end of the fourth month, however you have only yourself to blame for this. Serve a valid Section 21 NOW to get guaranteed possession as soon as possible. Serve it tomorrow to be able to being repossession proceedings "on or after 18th January 2006".

lucid
17-11-2005, 16:53 PM
I will give him one month notice, as written on my contractSounds like an unenforceable unfair term to me...


You see i post always before things happen, as i can almost predict themLottery numbers please?? :p

Actually all the posters questions seem to have already been answered from the beginning of the thread...notice period..S21...etc

storex7
18-11-2005, 21:40 PM
How can you say sounds to me like an unforceable term to me :
The tenant have signed for it ? Isn't it not valid when showed to court ?
Why did they signed then ? They even signed the additinal sheet that says : " The tenant has read and understood the terms and conditions and accepts the property as it is "
It's my house and i don't see why they shouldn't stick to those rules !!

And moreover this agreement was written by the great Sunil property course and great experienced investor

RichieP
18-11-2005, 21:54 PM
And moreover this agreement was written by the great Sunil property course and great experienced investor

That doesn't mean he operates within the law. There is what is known as "unfair terms" in an agreement. Many tenants sign agreements without really knowing their rights, something that unscrupulous landlords take advantage of.

It's not just people on here saying all this for the hell of it. It comes from experience in the courts, with judges throwing out cases that have taken months to reach court at great expense to the landlord, just because of such terms.

It's up to you whether you take the advice or not, but you will have problems if you try to enforce such terms through the court.

MrShed
18-11-2005, 22:11 PM
How can you say sounds to me like an unforceable term to me :
The tenant have signed for it ? Isn't it not valid when showed to court ?
Why did they signed then ? They even signed the additinal sheet that says : " The tenant has read and understood the terms and conditions and accepts the property as it is "
It's my house and i don't see why they shouldn't stick to those rules !!

And moreover this agreement was written by the great Sunil property course and great experienced investor

Who? Is he by any chance currently banged up? Putting "the great" does not gain him any respect in my eyes, he has zippo respect as he has no idea about the law.

Basically storex to prevent unscrupulous landlords chucking out tenants left right and centre, and with little or no time for them to find somewhere else, an AST, even if agreed and signed upon, cannot contravene the tenants statutory rights. One of these rights is that the landlord may not evict a tenant with less than 2 months notice. It is similar to the situation in some stores when they put "Sale goods cannot be returned". This "term" is null and void, as it contravenes a consumers statutory rights to return faulty products, and cannot by revoked by the consumer even by agreeing to these conditions at the point of sale.

storex7
19-11-2005, 08:21 AM
Excuse me ? If his agreement is not valid, and if students like us, pay thousands to do the three days course , then what is the purpose of it ..?

All these "Great" Fantastic, courses can tell you anything even if not very legal ? It seems to me then, that even if one owns the house, once tenants are in the house is not under his rules annymore and other rules take place ?

I feel a bit like Forrest Gump now; He ran for three years and then suddenly one day he just stopped and went back home .

MrShed
19-11-2005, 09:02 AM
Storex, with respect, I aint going to repeat myself anymore. Read my above post for all the CORRECT info you want. If you choose to believe it or not is of no concern to me.

susan 2
19-11-2005, 10:48 AM
May I congratulate our two poets - Some of these posts and posters get very uptight - a little humour is no bad thing! And they made me laugh and lightened my day!

Ericthelobster
19-11-2005, 14:19 PM
Excuse me ? If his agreement is not valid, and if students like us, pay thousands to do the three days course , then what is the purpose of it ..?Ooh, tricky one that. Let me think about it for a bit... Oh, I know - just maybe it's to make lots of cash for the person who organised the course...???

lucid
19-11-2005, 17:34 PM
Thank you Susan I'm glad you found my ditty amusing...I just knew storex was going to post about his unfair term.."You see i post always before things happen, as i can almost predict them"...tee hee
:p
oh what fun.
but why do i get the feeling we are all providing troll fodder here this goes on and on and on. One can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

storex if any of what you have posted are genuine threads?? Then what we are all talking about is a thing called THE LAW. Regardless of what some maharaji guru of investment has said that's all that matters.

The landlord and tenant act
The protection from eviction act
The unfair terms in consumer contracts act
The housing acts

Example
Landlord decides he has a right to let prospective purchasers view property.
Tenant doesn't want to let strangers in.
Landlord goes to court. Half a day in court.
Landlord loses laughed out of court..quote from landlords barrister "your honour I realise I have no case..."
Landlord £5000 poorer...

The whole purpose of the UTCCR are that it does not matter what the tenant has signed in the contract. If its an unfair term it just ain't legal. Besides this 1 month notice term actually breaks statute I would just love to see that one in court...but me lud he signed it so its gotta be legal.

Oh but I'm possibly producing fodder so I'll shut up. :rolleyes:

Homeless soon
21-11-2005, 22:13 PM
You guys seem to know your stuff, so may be you would be good enough to advise a tenant.

I have lived at the same house for 10 years and 3 months. All of a sudden I hear a knock at the door from a guy claiming to be my new land lord. To cut a long story short, he is asking me to pay 40% more rent, move, or be evicted.

In the 10 years I have been here, I have not once missed a payment, or caused any problems for the previous land lord. With it being so close to Christmas and having a wife and a kid, I am not exactly looking forward to uprooting my family, nor can I afford the luxury of affording the rent rise.

Any freindly and legal advice would be greatly appreciated.

RichieP
21-11-2005, 22:20 PM
What a ****.

Not you, the landlord. He needs to serve the legal form of notice of increase in rent, Section 13 I think.

Homeless soon
21-11-2005, 22:41 PM
Wow that was quick.Thanks.

I know absolutely nothing about these things or the terms you guys seem to use.

In plain English, please explain what this is, and how long it will take if he decides to get me out.

Just so you know, he told me his contract will complete in 7 days, so he wants to conclude every thing before then.

I am just afraid I may be forced out before Christmas with no where to go.

Energise
21-11-2005, 22:45 PM
Is it an Assured or Assured Shorthold Tenancy?

(He wont get you out before Xmas)

dazalock
21-11-2005, 23:16 PM
Dont worry mate, no way will he get you out before christmas, no matter what type of tenany you have.

A section 13 is a form which is laid out in the prescribed format. He needs to issue you one and you have then got 1 month to appeal to the fair rents officer at the council.

We need much more information to help you. Can I suggest you post a new thread, stating the type of tenancy you have (should say it on the contract) when it started, how much rent, deposit etc.

Homeless soon
22-11-2005, 09:47 AM
Thanks again guys.

Here is every thing I know.

We moved in just over 10 years ago on a 10 year signed contract (Can't seem to find the doccument right now, but I am sure I will later). I am not sure what you guys call these contracts. I seem to remember that we both had to give 1 month notice.

The 10 years was up around June time, but I was not given any further information from the original land lord about what to do next, or setting up another contract. I have just carried on paying the rent via a standing order.

About a year ago I got a letter from the people managing the rental, saying that they intend to sell the House, and that I could have first refusal. Unfortunately I am in a situation that I can not get a mortage (long story), so I refused the offer.

The next thing was this guy turning up on my door step, claiming to have bought the house I live in and a number of others on the same estate (The place I live in, was a new private estate built around 10 years ago). You already know what he has offered me.

I hope tis helps?

On a seperate note, I am not sure if this is just a terrible coincidence, but the day after he introduced himself to me, my boiler broke down (Friday) leaving me with not heating or hot water. We called the orginal site manager to report the failure (they used to be very good responding to any maintenance calls), but got a call back from this new man saying he will get the job done at the Weekend. Nothing hapened till 8pm on Sunday evening. He came in with another guy (no parts or tools) took a quick look and said they will try and get some parts and come in on Monday to fix it (he was more interested to know if I had made a decision about what I am planning to do than any thing else). Needless to say I am still waiting today 9Tuesday). It just happens that we have eneterd the coldest period of this year so far, so it is not a happy capm for my wife and little gir. Should I be going back to the original Land Lord again(as this guy claimed the contract had not been completed for a few more days)?

dazalock
22-11-2005, 10:34 AM
Thanks again guys.

Here is every thing I know.

We moved in just over 10 years ago on a 10 year signed contract (Can't seem to find the doccument right now, but I am sure I will later). I am not sure what you guys call these contracts. I seem to remember that we both had to give 1 month notice.

You really need to find this contract, it makes all the difference with regards to your rights of tenancy.

The 10 years was up around June time, but I was not given any further information from the original land lord about what to do next, or setting up another contract. I have just carried on paying the rent via a standing order.

Again we need to know what the original contract was, but you have "probably" gone into a periodice tenancy whereby the clauses of the original contract remain. This may not be the case in terms of notice periods, so find that paperwork.

About a year ago I got a letter from the people managing the rental, saying that they intend to sell the House, and that I could have first refusal. Unfortunately I am in a situation that I can not get a mortage (long story), so I refused the offer.

The next thing was this guy turning up on my door step, claiming to have bought the house I live in and a number of others on the same estate (The place I live in, was a new private estate built around 10 years ago). You already know what he has offered me.

At least he has shown himself.

I hope tis helps?

On a seperate note, I am not sure if this is just a terrible coincidence, but the day after he introduced himself to me, my boiler broke down (Friday) leaving me with not heating or hot water. We called the orginal site manager to report the failure (they used to be very good responding to any maintenance calls), but got a call back from this new man saying he will get the job done at the Weekend. Nothing hapened till 8pm on Sunday evening. He came in with another guy (no parts or tools) took a quick look and said they will try and get some parts and come in on Monday to fix it (he was more interested to know if I had made a decision about what I am planning to do than any thing else). Needless to say I am still waiting today 9Tuesday). It just happens that we have eneterd the coldest period of this year so far, so it is not a happy capm for my wife and little gir. Should I be going back to the original Land Lord again(as this guy claimed the contract had not been completed for a few more days)?

Until he complete's your original Ll is responsible, however, by the time you can force him to do anything, he would have completed. I find it highly irregular for the new LL to contact you before the contract is complete. There are posts on the forum about retaning rent to fix things like this, have a look on the search facility.


Again get the original contract, and PLEASE start a new thread!

Homeless soon
22-11-2005, 11:33 AM
Thanks again

I will find the contract tonight (when I am home) and let you know what is in it. Should be able to do it by 8pm latest (assuming I can still find the contract after 10 years).

Homeless soon
22-11-2005, 19:54 PM
I have just found the contract. Not sure what I am looking for, but here are what I consider to be relevant lines.

It is headed Assured Tenancy Agreement (Whole Building)
Term A fixed term of 10 years or such shorter period from an
earlier termination (start date 10th of June 1995).
Review dates Every 12 months (I think I have only had 3-4 increases in
that period.

A couple of clauses at the back regarding increase in rent. One seems to indicate that every year it will go up by around 15% (lists total anual payment in £s). The other mentions the following:

Any rent concession given upon any review date, shall not predjutice the LL'a right to calculate future rent reviews up on the basis of the rent which would have been paid but for the concession.

I hope this helps. I would appreciate some feed back as to where I stand on this.

PS. No show on the Boiler fix tonight either. Got a call saying they have car problem?

RichieP
22-11-2005, 21:33 PM
It is headed Assured Tenancy Agreement

Are you sure the word Shorthold isn't there?

If not, he's got no chance of evicting youu

dazalock
22-11-2005, 21:56 PM
You are on a winner my friend, this LL has no chance of evicting you without first finding you somewhere else to live for the same rent, paying all your expenses and giving you a whole heap of compensation, and even then, you can tell him to sling it. My advise is to get some legal advice, but he aint gunna get you out of there, serves him right for not doing his homework when buying the place.

Homeless soon
22-11-2005, 22:06 PM
Just read the contract and definitely can not see any mention of the word "shorthold" at all.

I am not sure what any of the terms mean (including shorthold), but I am just hoping I don't get forced in to a corner. I guess it is time I moved on and sorted out a long term solution for my family, but I will need at least 4-6 months to be able to organise that. A part from christmas being just round the corner, I don't think moving home in the Winter months is a clever idea (not even taking in to account my girl and her School).

If he insists on getting the full increase (some thing I can not meet right now), or evict me, how long do I realistically have before he can legally force me out?

Homeless soon
22-11-2005, 22:11 PM
Sorry can't seem to be able to put the attachment in.

lucid
22-11-2005, 22:35 PM
Dazalock-PLEASE start a new thread!
Homeless soon (NOT because you have security of tenure and can stay the rest of your life if you wish)
PLEASE COPY AND PASTE YOUR POSTS THAT ARE RELEVANT AND START A NEW THREAD AND MEMBERS WILL ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS ITS ON THE TOP LEFT OF THE MAIN RENTAL PROPERTY QUESTIONS PAGE.

IF EVERY POSTER ADDED ON TO THE END OF ANOTHER THREAD FORUMS WOULD BE PRETTY STUPID PLACES WOULDN'T THEY.

RichieP
22-11-2005, 22:41 PM
I think you need to get some legal advice pretty swiftly, but a couple of answers.

An Assured Shorthold Tenancy is for a fixed term. It can be ended by issuing the correct legal notice once this term has ended.

An Assured Tenancy has no end date. You can only be evicted if you breach tenancy terms such as not paying rent.

This could go two ways, depending on how you play it, and how reasonable the landlord is (not very by the sound of it).

You could agree that you will seek alternative accommodation spome time next year, in possible 6 months time, when you say you are more likely to be ready. Tell him that you have a tenancy that allows you to stay for as long as you like, and that you are doing him a favour by agreeing to leave.

Or he could get nasty, for example bot fixing your boiler, and it becomes a real battle. You still have the law on your side, as this will constitute harassment and he will be liable to pay you compensation.

He can't just increase the rent when he feels like it. He must issue the correct notice. You can explain this to him, which means he will do it and you can appeal, which will drag it out longer, or you can just not tell him and not pay the increase. By the sounds of the way he does things, I'd be surprised if he tried to evict you through the court, but if he did you could just continue to pay the current rent. When it came to a court hearing you just explain to the judge that you were waiting for the correct notice of an increase in rent before paying it. You will win. By the time all this happens you should have had time to find somewhere else.

I don't envy your position, particularly having a child living with you. This landlord may try to make your life difficult. Although the law is on your side, you may consider it not worth the stress for you and your family. This is what he will want.

I hope you get this sorted and reach an agreement.

Homeless soon
22-11-2005, 22:54 PM
Homeless soon (NOT because you have security of tenure and can stay the rest of your life if you wish)
PLEASE COPY AND PASTE YOUR POSTS THAT ARE RELEVANT AND START A NEW THREAD AND MEMBERS WILL ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS ITS ON THE TOP LEFT OF THE MAIN RENTAL PROPERTY QUESTIONS PAGE.

IF EVERY POSTER ADDED ON TO THE END OF ANOTHER THREAD FORUMS WOULD BE PRETTY STUPID PLACES WOULDN'T THEY.

Sorry Lucid. You are quite right. I shall continue this as a new thread. I have never been on a forum before. I was in such panic that once I found this site/thread, I just tagged on to this message, which I now realise, is quite wrong.

Thanks for your help everyone.