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View Full Version : Uk system protects illegals and not the landlords why ?



copan
11-11-2005, 08:46 AM
Hi got a question . Why all this ? Thank you
I could not believe what happened to this friend of mine landlord.

Three months ago a couple rented a room in a houseshare, After three months during a visit to the house, the landlord became aware that there's some work to be done to the room's ceiling, and concerned for the tenant's health, he has given them one month notice, so that he can quietly proceed with the work; Also he told them that : in less than two months he will have no place where to live, therefore he might considering using that room.
Before doing all that, of course the good landlord arranged another room in another house with a different landlord.

The couple replied and said to the landlord that as the wife is pregnant six months and that the only way to get rid of them (literally said by them) will be to go to court .
In other words they had planned all this to get a house from the council, and the only way to do so, is for the landlord to issue a court order for them. They didn't inform the landlord that the wife was three months pregnant, three months ago,although he had asked 'em if she was pregnant.

I am not a critic of the uk system regarding the homeless, or else ... I am just trying to gather info to help out this friend of mine dear to me .

I know these couple will win the case and the landlord will have to go to court, but how would you put it in terms of lies and fraud committed towards the landlord ?
Isn't this system an encouragement to lie and to committ fraud towards other institutins too ? If one can lie with a landlord, one can lie with anybody else using his/her rights .
Can this landlord sue them for giving the wrong info to him ?
Can the landlord appeal to the fact that they are being irresponsible by giving birth to a baby in a houseshare, where people smoke/use the same toilets/ and where all kinds of germs are there ?
Just curious, this forum is good for learning legal staff .

Ideas and private messages welcome

Thank you very much

Energise
11-11-2005, 10:02 AM
Hi got a question . Why all this ? Thank you
I could not believe what happened to this friend of mine landlord.

Your friend is running a business, he as thousands of others (myself included) enter into this landlord business with barely any knowledge or research and are then shocked when we find the extent of legislation controlling this industry. I cant think of another business that requires this level of investment that people blindly enter into.

Three months ago a couple rented a room in a houseshare, After three months during a visit to the house, the landlord became aware that there's some work to be done to the room's ceiling, and concerned for the tenant's health, he has given them one month notice, so that he can quietly proceed with the work; Also he told them that : in less than two months he will have no place where to live, therefore he might considering using that room.
Before doing all that, of course the good landlord arranged another room in another house with a different landlord.

If the tenants are happy with the ceiling there is no need for the landlord to worry about it, he cant remove tenants in the first 6 months and must give 2 months notice expiring on a date after the first 6 months.

The couple replied and said to the landlord that as the wife is pregnant six months and that the only way to get rid of them (literally said by them) will be to go to court .

That's correct.

In other words they had planned all this to get a house from the council, and the only way to do so, is for the landlord to issue a court order for them. They didn't inform the landlord that the wife was three months pregnant, three months ago,although he had asked 'em if she was pregnant.

Being pregnant is nothing to do with the landlord (unless he's the father) :). Rejecting an application on these grounds would be sex discrimination.

I am not a critic of the uk system regarding the homeless, or else ... I am just trying to gather info to help out this friend of mine dear to me .

I know these couple will win the case and the landlord will have to go to court,

He doesn't have a case.

but how would you put it in terms of lies and fraud committed towards the landlord ?
Isn't this system an encouragement to lie and to committ fraud towards other institutins too ? If one can lie with a landlord, one can lie with anybody else using his/her rights .
Can this landlord sue them for giving the wrong info to him ?

No, she might be able to sue him for sex discrimination.

Can the landlord appeal to the fact that they are being irresponsible by giving birth to a baby in a houseshare, where people smoke/use the same toilets/ and where all kinds of germs are there ?

No local councils often put families into situations like this.

Just curious, this forum is good for learning legal staff .

Ideas and private messages welcome

Thank you very much

The landlord can serve notice now as long as it expires after the first 6 months and it covers at least 2 months.

justaboutsane
11-11-2005, 10:57 AM
What these people have done is NOT illeagal, how do you know that the couple knew the lady was pregnant? She may only have found out after taking the tenancy and even so they may have taken the room in a bid to get issued with a section 21 in order to get a council property. This is not illeagal although is frustrating.

What we need to know are the dates the tenancy was created and the length of the agreement. Your friend should then issue a section 21 acordingly and follow the court route to evict them. He can carry out repairs with them in the property, it may be prudent to put them up in a hotel while the work is carried out. But you cannot remove them without a court order and bailiffs. To do so would see your friend on court and seriously out of pocket... and if he tried he would be theone breaking the law.

Although frustrating the laws are in place to protect innocent tenants from unscrupulous landlords. Yes people exploit the law but good people must be protected. So long as your friend follows the law he will regain possesion of his property.

copan
11-11-2005, 11:09 AM
Whhaa, will tell him everythign mate, you seem to know a lot .
Good, good... Think i can do the same with the council ? I would like a house for myself with no rent to be paid , The council will do for that !!
Could you please tell me where to go ?
Also, before i rent a room all for me, shall i say nothing to the landlord about what my plans are, of course ?
Thanks mate, I love this system and i believe foreign know more than British lawyers . How about setting up a "How to make people believe what is not" course ? ..or "How to profit from the system, not at your expenses, as the landlord pays it all" ? This really appeals
That makes money , you know ?!!

Thank you for your advises and pls send me more

copan
11-11-2005, 11:13 AM
Hi Energise

Forgot to say, how about the roof falling down ? The job cannot be done without them to move, it's all on the builder's report . Will that poor guy be responsible for all this ? Do not forget he has provided already an accomodation for them .They don't feel like taking it one day, and the day after they change their mind ?
The house near their house is ready for them ...

Thank you

justaboutsane
11-11-2005, 11:29 AM
Whhaa, will tell him everythign mate, you seem to know a lot .
Good, good... Think i can do the same with the council ? I would like a house for myself with no rent to be paid , The council will do for that !!
Could you please tell me where to go ?

undefined Are you saying the tenants are not paying rent?? Are they in arrears of 8 weeks or more?? If yes then your friend can follow the section 8 route and evict them.

Also, before i rent a room all for me, shall i say nothing to the landlord about what my plans are, of course ?
Thanks mate, I love this system and i believe foreign know more than British lawyers . How about setting up a "How to make people believe what is not" course ? ..or "How to profit from the system, not at your expenses, as the landlord pays it all" ? This really appeals
That makes money , you know ?!!
undefinedYes it is frustrating when people exploit the law, but unless these people are failing to pay rent i cannot see how they are profiting from the system. Circumstances happen, My sister and her partner rented a one bedroom house and then discovered my sister was pregnant, to cap it all her landlady then tried to kick them out with less than one months notice. The laws are there to protect people and give consistent rules to follow. Ok so on occasions they are not followed well but such is life.

Thank you for your advises and pls send me more

undefinedOnce again, what these people have done is NOT illegal. They have commited no fraud, unless they obtained the room in false names. People should find out the facts and relevant laws before going in to this game. You cannot go in half cocked and then complain that something is not going your way.

RichieP
11-11-2005, 13:36 PM
I love this system and i believe foreign know more than British lawyers

I think I get what you're hinting at here.


The job cannot be done without them to move, it's all on the builder's report . Will that poor guy be responsible for all this ?

What, the poor guy that owns the property and is responsible for maintaining it? I feel for him, I really do.

Tax Accountant
11-11-2005, 14:45 PM
Whhaa, will tell him everythign mate, you seem to know a lot .
Good, good... Think i can do the same with the council ? I would like a house for myself with no rent to be paid , The council will do for that !!
Could you please tell me where to go ?
Also, before i rent a room all for me, shall i say nothing to the landlord about what my plans are, of course ?
Thanks mate, I love this system and i believe foreign know more than British lawyers . How about setting up a "How to make people believe what is not" course ? ..or "How to profit from the system, not at your expenses, as the landlord pays it all" ? This really appeals
That makes money , you know ?!!

Thank you for your advises and pls send me more

Make yourself homeless and pennyless.

The council will then put you on their waiting list and move you forward on the list according to the points scoring system. If you are homeless without your fault, they have a legal obligation to find you a roof over your head. This could be a hostel, a hotel, or a house/flat in some council estate. If you want to be choosy where you want to live or the sort of accommodation you want to live in, you will stay on the waiting list for a long time.

The system is there to protect the homeless. Granted it is abused by many, but it also helps a lot of needy people regardless of their colour or creed.

Still think this is what you want to do yourself?

As for your landlord friend, he should have taken all references properly before letting his property. He should also have made sure that his property was in a good condition when let and not in condition that the roof starts falling down after a couple months. He better get it fixed and not use it as an excuse to get the tenants out because he now needs the room for himself.

I am a landlord myself and feel that the law is quite often more on the side of the tenants than the landlords, but there are always two sides to the coin.

Ramnik

Day
11-11-2005, 15:03 PM
Energise you really did hit the nail on the head when you inferred that most of us enter in to this business blindly. I agree. There should be much more awareness given to landlords when contemplating this malarky!
Imagine how shocked i have been to find for the first time in 7 years i try and excercise my landlords right to access the property giving 24hrs notice and being told it's a bunch of old twaddle basically because the tenant can say 'No' and thats that! Bloody great.
Even more mysterious is the world of holiday letting - you try and find ANYTHING about the legalities, rights of landlord and tenants and people stare at you as if you've got five heads and seven tails!
I have to say that the entire business no matter who is good and who is evil in any given situation is stacked in the favour of the tenant.

lucid
11-11-2005, 17:10 PM
Copan

sensible suggestion:

1 Put aside a couple of hours and read the threads on the forum you will learn a lot and most of your questions will be answered. It may then prevent you asking inept questions, and making sweeping statements about English Law, which is there to protect the rights of landlord and tenant.

Renting out property for gain is a business and anyone who endeavored to succeed in this must undoubtedly be aware of the Rules of Law that apply to their business. For an extreme example should I start practicing as a doctor though I am not qualified or offer my services as a mechanic if I had no skills or training in car repair, I think not.

2 use the search facility on the forum 1st for further queries...again your questions will probably be answered.

MrShed
11-11-2005, 18:07 PM
By the way..is he obliged to get a court order ? Can he really let the couple stay in his house for good ; What if they don't pay the rent

Thanks , Thanks a lot to all of you

Yes he is. If they dont pay the rent, he can evict them, via court order. The only legal way to evict tenants not wishing to move, for ANY circumstance, is via the courts.

MrShed
11-11-2005, 18:11 PM
I have to say that the entire business no matter who is good and who is evil in any given situation is stacked in the favour of the tenant.

And in my opinion, rightly so. The tenant is much more in the position to be abused by the landlord than visa versa. And it is only stacked in favour of the tenant if the landlord does not know his legalities from his elbow. Not contradicting you, just giving my tuppence worth :)

Tax Accountant
11-11-2005, 18:46 PM
Thanks for the news fellas

I said to him what you kindly told me on this forum : That unless you issue a court order those poor people will never get a house on their own,,but he keeps on saying he likes them , cos they pay the rent on time and it'll be difficult to get some other good tenants .

By the way..is he obliged to get a court order ? Can he really let the couple stay in his house for good ; What if they don't pay the rent
All answers welcome, especially welcome Justaboutsane/energise/karongo , guys you really know what i don't ..
Hopefully he'll be here by the time you reply

Thanks , Thanks a lot to all of you

Your friend likes them because they pay the rent and not because they are 'poor'. Regardless of the tone of your letter, I am sure that even you would like the 'poor' people and let them stay in your house if they pay rent. And if the 'poor' people cannot pay rent, your friend could consider letting them stay for free until they are able to buy a place of their own.