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Dolly
29-05-2008, 11:47 AM
I've just started petitioning residents to join an RTM initiative and the response is good.

However, someone has pointed out that because our property is made up of three buildings, we have to treat each one separately and form three RTMs!

I've done lots of reading about RTM and nowhere does it say that.

Our property is listed, so I can't see how one building could be developed separately. Also, our communal gardens could not be split into three, they form the centre piece of the property. In reality, how could three separate companies maintain the property?

Can anyone clarify this?

Thanks
Dolly

Dolly
29-05-2008, 11:54 AM
All three buildings also share an entrance, and a drive way.

Managing Agent
29-05-2008, 11:57 AM
Hi Dolly

I'm afraid that you will need to set up three different companies.

Sorry

jeffrey
29-05-2008, 11:57 AM
Start wth s.72 of 2002 Act. Self-contained structurally-detached premises can be RTMd on their own, it seems. Redevelopability is irrelevant except in dealing with part of a building, self-contained because severable vertically- s.72(3).

Managing Agent
29-05-2008, 11:58 AM
Hi Dolly

I'm afraid that you will need to set up three different companies.

Sorry

That is of course if all residents in each of the blocks want to go RTM.

Poppy
29-05-2008, 12:16 PM
Misleading.

The building must meet certain conditions and a minimum number of leaseholders is required to take part.

the building must be self-contained (or if part of another building, be capable of being redeveloped independently)
it must include at least two flats
at least two-thirds of the flats must be let to qualifying tenants
it can be part-commercial but the non-residential part must not exceed 25% of the total floor area.

If you're offering anonymous "expert" advice (your words not mine) in your capacity as a managing agent, will you please attempt more accuracy.

Managing Agent
29-05-2008, 12:19 PM
Misleading.

The building must meet certain conditions and a minimum number of leaseholders is required to take part.

the building must be self-contained (or if part of another building, be capable of being redeveloped independently)
it must include at least two flats
at least two-thirds of the flats must be let to qualifying tenants
it can be part-commercial but the non-residential part must not exceed 25% of the total floor area.

If you're offering anonymous "expert" advice (your words not mine) in your capacity as a managing agent, will you please attempt more accuracy.

Sorry didn't realise the question raised was about qualification.

Dolly
29-05-2008, 12:28 PM
I've read the Leashold Reform Act, qualfiying part - it's a bit vague and whoever wrote it didn't consider this type of building.

How can our property be treated as three separate buildings? If one part gained RTM, it would be impossible - who would be responsible for re-surfacing the drive, maintaining the entrance archways, maintaining the courtyard garden?

If all buildings gained RTM and used three different managing agents, it just couldn't work. If we were buying the freehold, we would be buying all three buildings.

Poppy
29-05-2008, 12:36 PM
The right relates to a building, so, in an estate of separate blocks, each block would need to qualify separately and an individual RTM notice served. In the case of an estate of flats under the same management, it would be sensible [though not mandatory] to take over the management of the whole estate, but this would have to be accomplished by application in respect of each separate block.


How can our property be treated as three separate buildings? If one part gained RTM, it would be impossible - who would be responsible for re-surfacing the drive, maintaining the entrance archways, maintaining the courtyard garden?
Then ensure that all the blocks get involved for an easier and sensible life.

Dolly
29-05-2008, 13:20 PM
The buildings are physically joined by archways.

The buildings have common parts (gardents, driveways, archways).

The buildings are covered by one insurance policy.

The buildings have always been managed as one property.

Poppy
29-05-2008, 13:31 PM
I'm sorry, has your enquiry not been satisfactorily answered?


If your building can be considered as one, then assess the RTM qualification requirements as I have previously specified.
If your buildings can be considered as three, then each block must assess the RTM qualification separately. Additionally, ensure that all three end up taking part for a "sensible" life (as quoted by the Leasehold Advisory Service).
If you cannot decide if you have one or three, then employ a surveyor for a professional written opinion.

My opinion is to get all three blocks involved ensuring the minimum number of lessees. It's all three or none if you ask me.

Or keep the status quo.

jeffrey
29-05-2008, 13:49 PM
The buildings are physically joined by archways.

The buildings have common parts (gardents, driveways, archways).

The buildings are covered by one insurance policy.

The buildings have always been managed as one property.

The archways are not integral to structures, surely? Sharing of gardens would not be sufficiently compelling evidence that the three blocks MUST be RTMd together. It's not like the blocks are unseverable (inseverable?), although- obviously- everone would gain by a collective RTM.

Dolly
30-05-2008, 14:35 PM
Well yes, the blocks can't be severed, it's a listed building and the arches are part of the design/brickwork.

Having spoken to LEASE it looks like we'll go ahead with an RTM for the whole property. It's obvious that the 2002 act wasn't written with this type of block in mind. It would be ludicrous to split the management here.

jeffrey
30-05-2008, 14:37 PM
Well yes, the blocks can't be severed, it's a listed building and the arches are part of the design/brickwork.

Having spoken to LEASE it looks like we'll go ahead with an RTM for the whole property. It's obvious that the 2002 act wasn't written with this type of block in mind. It would be ludicrous to split the management here.

Listed Building requirements are irrelevant for these purposes. The blocks COULD be severed, even though that would trigger criminal liability!

TomMerralls
01-06-2008, 09:12 AM
Let me see if I can clarify some points here.

First, jeffrey is right in his last post above. The issue is whether there is/are one block or three blocks for the purposes of the legislation. Without going into technical detail, I believe (subject to further investigaiton of the lease plans) the legislation will treat your buildings as three separate buildings. This means three separate notices will need to be served. It also means that you will need at least 50% of the leaseholders in EACH block to participate. If you only get 49% in any given block, that block cannot be taken over by RTM.

Secondly, you CAN use an RTM Company, despite three notices needing to be served. I say this, as I have acted for leaseholders in a similar siutaiton before.

I am happy to discuss for FREE the RTM claim in further detail, using my details below. We can then establish for sure whether the leaseholders qualify for RTM and also whether one or three notices need to be served.

Best of luck!

Tom