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View Full Version : Locks on doors (and can/must L or T change locks)?



SALL
28-01-2008, 10:43 AM
If a property gets broken into and a patio door is damaged. who is responsible for fix that? that landlord or the tenant?

johnboy
28-01-2008, 12:00 PM
i would charge the L/L bit of a grey area i think

davidjohnbutton
28-01-2008, 12:03 PM
Definitely the landlord who should be insured against that kind of damage.

jeffrey
28-01-2008, 12:03 PM
L probably has insurance (property cover) for this damage. As T was not to blame for the break-in, L should be responsible and claim on policy.

heather5
28-01-2008, 22:14 PM
One of the downsides of renting a property as a tenant is that the keys have been given to numerous people before you - and they in turn could have made numerous copies and sold on.

Every time I've moved into a property I've changed the locks - but then been presented with a bill for doing so on top of the bill for the locksmith and extra keys demanded.

Despite warning in advance of signing the agreement that this is something I would do - I have always been penalised for doing so - in one case over £250 pounds - for no reason I could ever get to grips with.

Personally, I would like to see it law that every new tenancy agreement = new locks.

I cannot understand why it would be otherwise. I've had previous tenants enter the property whilst I was sleeping in on a Sunday - on the grounds that they had the keys - and were entitled to pickup their post!!!

They weren't but what they hell can I do as a tenant having agreed to past locks being passed on?

My insurance agent won't allow it - as I've been a tenant who's had their identity stolen - I have to pay a premium each year to ensure new locks - paid for by me - but often times I'm penalised for doing it.

To get my insurance - I have to do it - I have to make my premises secure.

Something I think most LL overlook and Lettings Agents who give the keys to goodness knows who.

Surrey
28-01-2008, 22:50 PM
When I let out, I always change the locks before a new tenant moves in. When I move house, I do the same. Same thing when I sold a place, I changed the lock after previous tenant moved out, and assured new owner of the fact (and she could see that the lock mechanism was brand new).

But changing the lock mechanism is a really simple thing to do, and as you would be able to reinstate the original locks at the end of the tenancy, what's the problem? I think you should learn to change a lock yourself, it's really not difficult, rather than having to cough up extortionate amounts. A tenner door should do the trick.

Bel
29-01-2008, 13:45 PM
Heather, you have a point. It doesn't make sense. Anything to make a buck these days.

heather5
29-01-2008, 19:54 PM
Surrey - that's an interesting thing to investigate - wish they did evening classes in such things. Might investigate to see if their is a simple DIY / maintain your property class.

Doing it myself - I'd be scared of the drilling that seems to go on with changing locks.

Did think of changing them back again - and then keeping a stock of locks per property - I move so often.

But then it was the hassle - and plus because I'd had to give out keys to the owner and the letting agents - and had no control who they had then given them to - particularly as nearly all the properties I've rented have been advertised for sale - and the keys have then been passed on to other agencies and then again that impacts on insurance.

Wish I had a landlord that did as you do!

Surrey
30-01-2008, 22:03 PM
No drilling required, if you have the key to the current lock. Honestly, it's dead easy! The only tools you will require are a screwdriver (straight and cross-head to be safe, depending on what the bits of door furniture have been held on with) and possibly a junior hacksaw.

On the side of the door, remove the screws that hold the lock mechanism on. There might also be one on the lock mechanism accessible from the back of the door as well.

Remove the locking mechanism.

Nah, I'm not going to type up instructions, they're on the bit of paper you get in the lock cylinder at B&Q. And you probably only need to buy a new cylinder, not the handle bit or the bit that attaches to the frame. Give it a go, it'll be worth your while and will save you a fortune next time you move!

If you don't want to go giving keys to the agent and landlord, then don't. If they have no reason to try the lock (and why should they?) then they'll never know, particularly if you change the cylinder back at the end of your tenancy.

Saulreal
23-04-2008, 11:53 AM
Hi There

I've recently taken over the management of my house from my parents and have got new tenants moving in on AST. A couple have them have said that they'd like locks on their doors as they're moving in with strangers etc which I can understand.

Does this effect the tenacy? And what about if the tenant fixes the lock and not me?

Can I just fit the locks with no further implications?

Thanks in advance.

Saul

Esio Trot
23-04-2008, 14:20 PM
Does this effect the tenancy? And what about if the tenant fixes the lock and not me?
Yes. And you haven't said how many tenants are moving in. Letting tenants fit locks is a really bad idea. You will not know what sort of botch job might be made until it is too late and the doors ruined.


Can I just fit the locks with no further implications?
No. You may well come under HMO rules, which are council-dependant and variable. If not, then the tidiest way of providing a modest level of privacy is to fit a basic 2-lever sash lock and a decent handle with keyhole. something like this (http://www.screwfix.com/prods/11188/Ironmongery/Door-Furniture/Classic/Urfic-Lock-Door-Handle-Constance-Polished-Brass) is what I have used

Poppy
25-04-2008, 15:30 PM
Please clarify. Is this your home and you are a live-in landlord and therefore the tenants are actually lodgers?

Saulreal
06-05-2008, 14:57 PM
I don't live at the property and so they are tenants are not lodgers and all have separate AST. There are 4 tenants in the house.

caroline7758
09-08-2008, 17:32 PM
I'm asking as the parent of a student rather than as a landlord here. My daughter will be moving into a shared house in September. When I went to see the place it looks a typical student house, the landlord is very experienced and the contract is fine, but the individual bedrooms are not fitted with locks, which surprised me. One of the other students, who has valuable musical instruments, has asked to have a lock fitted and the landlord has agreed to go halves on the cost.
Just wondering if it is normal good practice to put locks on doors in HMOs?

PaulF
09-08-2008, 19:53 PM
Firstly internal doors should be fire resistant in a HMO for at least 30 minutes (I think, but please correct me if not). I don't suppose there is anything to prevent yor daughter having a lock put on the door if no more than for security reasons, but make sure you have the landlord's permission

Tassotti
09-08-2008, 20:05 PM
I think you need to check with the fire regulations.

If a fire occurs, and the only way out is through that bedroom, but it is locked, then it may contravene the laws.

You need to check with the technical officer for HMOs for that area.

Tass

Pete Wyatt
10-08-2008, 10:02 AM
TV Licence - If there is a lock on the door then a tv licence will be needed for the room. if there is no lock then a licence for the house is all that is needed.
Pete

PaulF
10-08-2008, 10:26 AM
TV Licence - If there is a lock on the door then a tv licence will be needed for the room. if there is no lock then a licence for the house is all that is needed.
PeteOnly if you have a TV in the room!

Pete Wyatt
10-08-2008, 11:05 AM
Only if you have a TV in the room!

or a tv card in your computer or a video recorder or anything else that is capable of receiving tv signals!

PaulF
10-08-2008, 16:12 PM
Can you point me to where the TV Licensing Authority specifically states when a lock is on an internal door it requires a TV Licence if there is equipment capable of receiving broadcasts?

johnboy
10-08-2008, 16:44 PM
I have just told my kids they need to buy their own tv licence. Didnt go down well:D

starlettings
10-08-2008, 17:16 PM
So if you have a trendy bath with a tv in you cant lock the door whilst you use it eh..................

Pete Wyatt
10-08-2008, 17:26 PM
Can you point me to where the TV Licensing Authority specifically states when a lock is on an internal door it requires a TV Licence if there is equipment capable of receiving broadcasts?


try this link
http://tvlicensing.metafaq.com/templates/tvlicensing/main/answerPage?_mftvst:answerRef=%24http%3a%2f%2fapi.t ransversal.com%2fmfapi%2fobjectref%2fEntryStore%2f Entry%2fhttp%3a%2f%2fwww.metafaq.com%2fmfapi%2fMet afaq%2fClients%2ftvlicensing%2fModules%2flicensing Info%2fTopics%2fstudents%3a135130%3a4&_mftvst:moduleID=%24licensingInfo&_mftvst:topicID=%24&id=JELUIR5A064DMRNMS254VKLN78


hope it works!

PaulF
10-08-2008, 17:33 PM
Thanks - very interesting, but stoopid! (R & M "laugh in" quote - if you're under 50 you probably won't understand).

justaboutsane
10-08-2008, 18:14 PM
I think you will find that Halls of Residences are different to a shared house. You have always needed a TV License if you live in one but not in a shared house. When I managed a shared house the one license covered the whole building and they had locked doors!

Mars Mug
10-08-2008, 19:01 PM
The 'Landlords and Tenants' link seems more appropriate in particular this;

http://tvlicensing.metafaq.com/templates/tvlicensing/main/answerPage?_mftvst:answerRef=%24http%3a%2f%2fapi.t ransversal.com%2fmfapi%2fobjectref%2fEntryStore%2f Entry%2fhttp%3a%2f%2fwww.metafaq.com%2fmfapi%2fMet afaq%2fClients%2ftvlicensing%2fModules%2flicensing Info%2fTopics%2flandlords_tenants%3a135147%3a1&_mftvst:moduleID=%24licensingInfo&_mftvst:topicID=%24landlords_tenants&id=JELUIR5A064DMRNMS254VKLN78

Pete Wyatt
10-08-2008, 19:17 PM
This might be more to the point.
Pete




http://tvlicensing.metafaq.com/templates/tvlicensing/main/answerPage?_mftvst:answerRef=%24http%3a%2f%2fapi.t ransversal.com%2fmfapi%2fobjectref%2fEntryStore%2f Entry%2fhttp%3a%2f%2fwww.metafaq.com%2fmfapi%2fMet afaq%2fClients%2ftvlicensing%2fModules%2flicensing Info%2fTopics%2fstudents%3a135131%3a3&_mftvst:moduleID=%24licensingInfo&_mftvst:topicID=%24students&id=JELUIR5A064DMRNMS254VKLN78

caroline7758
26-08-2008, 13:47 PM
My daughter won't have a tv in her room, so back to the original question, please! :D Checked with my insurance company today and my home insurance will cover her contents while she's in a student house, but only if it's "under lock and key" in her room, not in any shared areas.
Surely if strangers share a HMO they would expect locks on their doors, why not students? I guess the answer is because they are not strangers, and they are on a joint tenancy, therefore not HMO.
However, the house is three stories, with a group of 6 students on each floor (yes, a nightmare scenario!) so does it come inder HMO regs after all?

Sportingdad
27-08-2008, 07:29 AM
A lot of this locks on doors comes down to a ruling in 1995 of
Barnes V Sheffield City Council in which a group of five students was held to form a single household. The court identified the factors to assist in identifying whether a house was being occupied as a single household or not: the origin of the tenancy; whether the residents arrived in a single group or were independently recruited by the landlord; the extent to which the facilities were shared; whether the occupants were responsible for the whole house (including the common parts) or just their particular rooms; the extent to which the residents can and do lock their doors; the responsibility for filling vacancies: whether that of the existing occupants or the landlord; the allocation of rooms: whether by the occupants or the landlord; the size of the establishment; the stability of the group;the mode of living: to what extent communal and to what extent independent.

So in the eyes of some council locks on doors may mean bedsits, so cookers in each room.

Maybe Jeffery can give us a heads up on the latest rulings especially with the 3 storey and 5 person licenseable HMO's, as most councils I understand do not want locks on doors mainly because of fire issues.

red40
27-08-2008, 08:47 AM
Barnes vs sheffield is old case law, i.e under the 1985 Housing Act. The fact is it would be entirely different result if applied to the 2004 Housing Act.

There is no destinct definition of a shared house or bedsit, apart from they both share facilities.

Again joint tenancy for friends has no bearing on whether its a HMO, they must be related for ther purposes of the Housing Act.

Locks on bedroom doors, presumably the landlord classes it as a shared house, whereby the occuopants rent the whole property? If they rent a room each then it could be classed as a bedsit.

g73m
30-06-2009, 19:05 PM
I am renting a house with some friends, it is a short term tenancy and we are all signing the one tenancy agreement (so from what I understand this is not a HMO, please correct me if I'm wrong)

We are not a single family unit, but as far as I can tell we are not multiple occupants.

The problem has arisen about a few people wanting to put locks on doors, we trust eachother etc but with people going on holidays, people being out and general everyday peace of mind, having locks on doors would be nice.

I can not seem to find the information I am looking for concerning having locks on rooms (not to lock like a front door, but mainly for privacy when you need it!)

I have enquired with the estate agent and was told that having locks is not possible because it is a safety hazard. I've had locks around me all my life and am still alive! So I am not very pleased with such an answer. What are the regulations on such a situation?

Could you please help me! Either pointing me in the right direction or informing me of what my options are.

Thanks.

MrAgent
30-06-2009, 22:42 PM
I am renting a house with some friends, it is a short term tenancy and we are all signing the one tenancy agreement (so from what I understand this is not a HMO, please correct me if I'm wrong)

We are not a single family unit, but as far as I can tell we are not multiple occupants.

There are more than one of you. Therefore you are multiple occupants. How many of you are sharing? If there are 5 or more over 3 stories or more it will require licensing. From memory I think Nottingham brought in licensing pre-housing act 2004 so they may have additional or selective licensing schemes (eg schemes that apply above and beyond the definition of housing act 2004 licensing).

The problem has arisen about a few people wanting to put locks on doors, we trust eachother etc but with people going on holidays, people being out and general everyday peace of mind, having locks on doors would be nice.

I can not seem to find the information I am looking for concerning having locks on rooms (not to lock like a front door, but mainly for privacy when you need it!)

I have enquired with the estate agent and was told that having locks is not possible because it is a safety hazard. I've had locks around me all my life and am still alive! So I am not very pleased with such an answer. What are the regulations on such a situation?

The landlord may or may not agree to you doing this. He could reasonably expect you to put the doors back as they were before you moved in. As for a fire risk, it is very unlikely the agent is an expert in this. A standard for HMOs is to have a lock that is openable from the inside without the use of a key. This is best done with a euro-profile mortice casing with a euro cylinder with thumb turn. It will also need new door handles to fit the euro cylinder. Cost is about £12 for the mortice casing and about £10-15 for the euro cylinder. About £10 for cheap handles and about £35 for fitting per door.

Could you please help me! Either pointing me in the right direction or informing me of what my options are.

Thanks.

See my comments above in blue.

Poppy
30-06-2009, 23:39 PM
You need to ask your landlord whether s/he is willing to install locks. If the answer is no, then it's no.

If you installed locks without the landlord's permission, I bet you will be unable to put the doors and frames back as they were. Not recommended if you want your full deposit returned.

If locks are important to you, you should seek properties that already have locks and keys on bedroom doors.

schocca
01-07-2009, 09:17 AM
Additionally, some councils also deem that locks on doors equates to separate living spaces and then chase the landlord for council tax on the common area (this is especially relevant for student lets).

I don't agree that this is legal, but getting and fighting a council tax demand for several Ks is not a nice experience. Going to court has resulted in mixed outcomes regarding this. To avoid this risk (as a landlord), I specify that all our student HMO accommodation (licensed/non-licensed) comes without internal room locks and a single tenancy contract that covers all tenants.

g73m
02-07-2009, 21:40 PM
Thanks for the help

The council tax point is VERY interesting. I have NO trust whatsoever in my estate agent after all of the hastle I've had. She could have just said it was to do with seperate living areas and council tax but she fobbed locks off as a fire hazard... I don't see how its going to combust but whatever :P