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Jo77
22-04-2008, 23:04 PM
Hi,

I recently moved into new property and the landlord has arranged for British Gas to come out tomorrow. He has just emailed me and said that British Gas will tell me the status of the boiler and if I am happy with that, there is no need to charge for a certificate.

Is this ok? I always thought a gas safety certificate had to be obtained on paper.

I don't want to upset new landlord and incur the cost of a certificate if it isn't neccessary. On the other hand, if it is a legal requirement, I don't want him to get into trouble for not providing one.

Any thoughts??

Many thanks, Jo

susanne
22-04-2008, 23:35 PM
it is a legal requirement for a landlord to produce a Landlords Gas Safety Certificate annually. This can only be produced by a CORGI registered gas engineer. The certificate is in three parts, one for the tenant, one for the landlord, one for the engineer. You must be given your copy of the certificate no later than 14 days after the inspection.

ask to see the gas man's "Corgi Badge"

Landlords should pay for this not tenants !!!!

Ericthelobster
23-04-2008, 00:39 AM
I recently moved into new property and the landlord has arranged for British Gas to come out tomorrow. He has just emailed me and said that British Gas will tell me the status of the boiler and if I am happy with that, there is no need to charge for a certificate.Sounds somewhat odd. What's "status of the boiler" mean? What is he asking this BG guy to do, if not do a proper landlord's safety check? Why isn't he getting it done properly?

I suppose maybe the BG guy is a mate doing a favour, and might well be CORGI-registered but doesn't have the required landlord's safety testing qualification (most don't - all CORGIs are not equal!). Whatever, your landlord's breaking the law and being a total prat if he thinks it's OK to save a few quid this way, and it should certainly say something to you about his professionalism and general attitude towards being a landlord.

Have a read of http://www.trustcorgi.com/consumer/iamatenant.htmx

fallenlord
23-04-2008, 07:56 AM
Hi,

I recently moved into new property and the landlord has arranged for British Gas to come out tomorrow. He has just emailed me and said that British Gas will tell me the status of the boiler and if I am happy with that, there is no need to charge for a certificate.

Is this ok? I always thought a gas safety certificate had to be obtained on paper.

I don't want to upset new landlord and incur the cost of a certificate if it isn't neccessary. On the other hand, if it is a legal requirement, I don't want him to get into trouble for not providing one.

Any thoughts??

Many thanks, Jo


If your property (and therefore boiler) is brand new, one of our Corgi engineers explained that you dont need a certificate until its a year old. Nevertheless, we always obtain one whether its new or not and the landlords pay for it.

susanne
23-04-2008, 10:34 AM
if a new boiler is installed, it has to be installed by a corgi registered gas engineer - it is no skin off their nose to write a Landlords Safety Certificate on installation - i dont know if they legally have to or not, - but whenever i get a new boiler i get a CORGI landlords cert on installation.

Colincbayley
23-04-2008, 15:59 PM
if a new boiler is installed, it has to be installed by a corgi registered gas engineer - it is no skin off their nose to write a Landlords Safety Certificate on installation - i dont know if they legally have to or not, - but whenever i get a new boiler i get a CORGI landlords cert on installation.

The installation certificate is proof of saftey for the first 12 months from the date of installation. Another CP12 ( Gas Cert ) is not required.

The LL in this case is breaking the law and could face a very heavy fine or even imprisonment. The OP on the other hand could end up DEAD!
Advise your LL that the correct paperword is required and if this is not produced then you will refer the matter to your local E.H.O.

glantisant
23-04-2008, 16:09 PM
Hope it's ok to ask a question on the back of this.....

How soon after you (the tenant) moves in must the landlord do this? Obviously asap however is there a limit?

Thanks

susanne
23-04-2008, 16:21 PM
if there is not a current certificate - you should not move in .......

glantisant
23-04-2008, 16:35 PM
if there is not a current certificate - you should not move in .......

thanks for that info.

we've just moved out of a property after 13 months. Our first rental one for years. We're having lots of issues regarding getting our deposit back. I'm in the process of compiling evidence that the whole let has been mishandled. Don't know what good that will do me but it's showing me that in retrospect I think we've been far too flexible about things. and more than a tad naive.

The gas cert was done properly but a few weeks after we took up residency. It resulted in the gas fire being condemned (small gas leak) and disconnected straight away. Landlord never replaced it.

P.Pilcher
23-04-2008, 16:37 PM
It is illegal for a landlord (or his agent) to permit a tenant to take up residence in a dwelling containing working gas appliances for which a Corgi landlords gas safety certificate is not not current. All good agents require a copy of the current certificate before proceding to find a new tenant for a landlord.
As stated above this does not apply to the first year of a new installation made by an appropriately Corgi registered engineer. The completion certificate for the installation fulfills this function.

P.P.

caroline7758
23-04-2008, 17:29 PM
On a course I attended recently, it was said that in addition to the annual check, a check has to be done whenever a new tenant moves in. Is this correct? I guess it would be in case the old tenant has tampered with anything.

Ericthelobster
23-04-2008, 17:43 PM
On a course I attended recently, it was said that in addition to the annual check, a check has to be done whenever a new tenant moves in. Is this correct? I guess it would be in case the old tenant has tampered with anything.No, it's good practice for the reason you state, but isn't a legal requirement. Agents obviously like it to be done, as it's a good back-covering exercise and the LL pays for it, not them; and I'm sure some will not be above telling the LL it's a must when it's actually just their own internal policy.

Personally, I visually check the gas appliances over along with everything else when I inspect the property after a tenant's left, and providing there's nothing to give me cause for concern I wouldn't consider getting another check done until it's due anyway.

susanne
23-04-2008, 18:59 PM
it is possible that when OP moved in there was a current certificate in force, but maybe the previous tenant walked off with it - thats happened to me before - so i would then photocopy my own copy for the next tenant

bagpuss
23-04-2008, 19:20 PM
it is possible that when OP moved in there was a current certificate in force, but maybe the previous tenant walked off with it - thats happened to me before - so i would then photocopy my own copy for the next tenant

Possible, but it sounds like this LL is trying to save money and hasn't got his gas cert for this property. We always have our certs done annually by the same company so there's no gap and we never allow a tenant in until there's a current cert.

Imagine if there was a problem and someone died - it doesn't bear thinking about.

Mars Mug
24-04-2008, 09:35 AM
I very recently purchased my Sister-in-law’s house to prevent her from being repossessed. She of course remained resident during the purchase, but I had to arrange for gas and electricity certification before the purchase completed, at my cost of course. Her solicitor was even starting to hold things up until the checks and tenancy agreement were finished. Quite a peculiar situation, but my stance was that the checks needed to be made and the delay really didn’t cost me anything. We have now completed but with outstanding electrical work to be done.

The outcome of the electrical check was that the consumer unit needed replacing, and given its age and lack of RCD protection I’m happy for it to be changed. The sale has completed now but we are not starting the tenancy until the electrical work and certification is complete. I assume that is legally acceptable?

attilathelandlord
24-04-2008, 10:42 AM
She is your tenant the moment the property completes and she is no longer the owner.

In the absence of a written contract she will be deemed to have a six months AST.

You don't require an electrical certificate for a tenancy (unless HMO). However it is your responsibility to make sure property is safe.

Just make sure it is done asap, but she is already your tenant.

Mars Mug
24-04-2008, 11:08 AM
Then I would see no other legal way to be covered unless she moved out on the day of purchase to then move in on the day the gas/electrical checks were successfully complete? How is this normally done by the people/companies that buy houses and let people rent back?

The gas check was fine by the way, and I am quite happy for the electrical check and modifications to be done regardless of the legal requirement.

jta
24-04-2008, 19:21 PM
I have a rolling contract with British Gas for one of my properties. Unknown to me the tenants at the time (God bless 'em and good riddance) took it on themselves to deny the engineer access to do the check. Nobody contacted me so the first I knew of it was when my agents were trying to sign up new tenants and had no cert. in place. The new tenants were due to take over 1st of March, we managed to get the cert on the 29th Feb.

attilathelandlord
24-04-2008, 19:26 PM
As long as you have the gas safety certificate, that is legally the only certificate you need at the start of the tenancy.

Just have the electrics sorted as soon as you can.

Your sister in law doesn't have to move out temporarily.

Ericthelobster
24-04-2008, 19:59 PM
Then I would see no other legal way to be covered unless she moved out on the day of purchase to then move in on the day the gas/electrical checks were successfully complete? How is this normally done by the people/companies that buy houses and let people rent back?What's to stop it being done before the sale is completed? In any house purchases it's very common for surveyors and builders to be called in before a sale and for works to be carried out as a precondition of the sale going ahead; I don't see this as being any different. That said, if the purchaser were to wait until the sale goes through and immediately instructs a CORGI to undertake the gas check as soon as practically possible, I really can't see any Environmental Health Officer getting too hot under the collar about it.

Mars Mug
24-04-2008, 21:16 PM
There really isn’t a problem for me now because the gas checks have been done, but I had to pay for them to be done before I had bought the house. In my case that was no big deal since the whole point of buying is simply to help the sister-in-law keep her home. But I do wonder if that’s normal practice, before I suggested that I buy from her she was planning to sell to a company that would buy then rent back. Would they have done the same, pay for the gas checks before purchasing, or would they have expected the sister-in-law to pay (who of course has no cash)?

I also got landlords insurance before the sale completion which peeved me a bit since they charge extra for people on housing benefit, regardless of the fact that she’s related and has lived there for 12 years.

Anyway, I shouldn’t hijack someone else’s thread.

Thanks for the advice everyone. :)

billericayboy
29-08-2008, 16:05 PM
I am a director of a MAnagement company and one of the shareholders (each flat owner has a share) lets his property and is refusing to provide us with a copy of is CP12 saying that it is none of our concern. I understand that the Management Company (ie directors) have a responcinbility to ensure that all gas appliances in the flats are inspected once a year when the flats are sub-let and it is recomended for owner occupiers.

Any ideas ?

TenantsLuvMe
29-08-2008, 17:22 PM
The installation certificate is proof of saftey for the first 12 months from the date of installation. Another CP12 ( Gas Cert ) is not required.

The LL in this case is breaking the law and could face a very heavy fine or even imprisonment. The OP on the other hand could end up DEAD!
Advise your LL that the correct paperword is required and if this is not produced then you will refer the matter to your local E.H.O.


There is a subtelty that should be noted here.

When a CORGI gas safety inspection is carried out, the certifcate given is to say that the gas supply and gas appliances in the property are safe at that point in time.
The certificate does not warrant that the gas supply and/or appliances will stay safe for 12 months or for any period after that day.

alfie_gooner
04-09-2008, 10:55 AM
Not wanting to hijack this thread, but as it is the only current one regarding my situation, there is something which i would like to know.

I have an OIL supplied domestic boiler and have no GAS at all, do i require a GAS safety certificate????:confused:

I cannot find any info anywhere regarding oil fed appliances, so any info would be greatly appreciated.

Sorrel
04-09-2008, 12:03 PM
Have a look on - http://www.oftec.org/documents/Landlord_certificates.pdf for regulations. Oil buring appliances and the technicians that service them are regulated by oftec.

Apparently no CP12 needs to be done by law however they do expect a yearly inspection under British Standards.

Hope it helps, otherwise give em a ring.

alfie_gooner
04-09-2008, 21:02 PM
Thanks for that Sorrel, just the information i was looking for, cheers.:)

redex
01-02-2009, 20:58 PM
How would you know if the system/boiler was new? Take the LLs word for it or ask for the relevant paperwork? ie gas safety cert.

mind the gap
01-02-2009, 21:01 PM
How would you know if the system/boiler was new? Take the LLs word for it or ask for the relevant paperwork? ie gas safety cert.

Ask LL to give you the tenant's copy of the CP12 (gas safety certificate). If he says boiler is less than 12 months old, ask him to show you the heating engineer's invoice for fitting it, with date on. (The receipt for the boiler, does not in itself, prove when it was installed).

redex
01-02-2009, 21:06 PM
Thank you, we should have had a new inspection done May 08, but it wasn't mentioned and didnt happen!