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View Full Version : Owner-occupier dies; does lodger become tenant?



ah84
08-04-2008, 10:12 AM
Owner occupier rents a room in their house to a tenant for donkeys years.

Owner occupier then dies. Does the tenant then become protected in anyway. i.e. can whoever inherits get VP?

jeffrey
08-04-2008, 10:31 AM
Owner occupier rents a room in their house to a tenant for donkeys years.

Owner occupier then dies. Does the tenant then become protected in anyway. i.e. can whoever inherits get VP?

1. Owner-occupier (O) is resident L.
2. So T is only a lodger at best.
3. O's executors (E) step into O's shoes. They should succeed to his rights.
4. T's status cannot spontaneously improve merely because O dies.
5. E should take action asap to evict T as lodger. A simple Notice (non-statutory) ought to be sufficient. e acquires O's right to remove T and gain vacant possession- unless there are any other circumstantial reasons why this cannot be so.
6. Alternatively, E could offer to grant a new AST to T.

Bel
08-04-2008, 10:36 AM
Usually, as soon as LL is not resident at property as main home, lodger would have tenancy rights; he would be tenant of his room, with the rest of the house still being 'shared'. What happens after death in your case, do not know.

Wots VP ?

jeffrey
08-04-2008, 10:44 AM
Usually, as soon as LL is not resident at property as main home, lodger would have tenancy rights; he would be tenant of his room, with the rest of the house still being 'shared'. What happens after death in your case, do not know.

Wots VP ?

VP= vacant possession.

Why do you think that T acquires a tenancy? Once a lodger, always a lodger.

ah84
08-04-2008, 12:30 PM
Thanks Jeffrey.

Bel
09-04-2008, 08:47 AM
VP= vacant possession.

Why do you think that T acquires a tenancy? Once a lodger, always a lodger.

If LL moves to another house, and lodger stays, he becomes tenant as LL no longer resident.

PaulF
09-04-2008, 09:47 AM
You're missing the point Bel that Jeffery is making

jeffrey
09-04-2008, 10:00 AM
Distinguish between:
a. lodger (so it is not a tenancy); and
b. T sharing with resident L (so it is a tenancy but not within 1988 Act).

In case 'a', lodger is never granted a tenancy so never becomes T (even if L moves out or dies).
In case 'b', T is unprotected by Act for so long as L resides too. If L moves out or dies, T then regains Act's protection.

Bel
09-04-2008, 12:16 PM
I'm in a hurry, but see http://www.desktoplawyer.co.uk/dt/browse/law/index.cfm?fs=lga&sid=75918&aid=34768

See bit at bottom about when LL dies.

jeffrey
09-04-2008, 12:37 PM
I'm in a hurry, but see http://www.desktoplawyer.co.uk/dt/browse/law/index.cfm?fs=lga&sid=75918&aid=34768

See bit at bottom about when LL dies.

Irrelevant. It simply tells you what I told you (re case 'b' in my last post). i.e. that the type of tenancy can fluctuate.
Either way, a lodger canot spontaneously acquire tennancy rights.

Bel
09-04-2008, 21:45 PM
What do you define a lodger as Jeffrey?

jeffrey
10-04-2008, 09:42 AM
What do you define a lodger as, Jeffrey?

There's no statutory definition. I'd suggest that a lodger is an occupier given a personal non-assignable licence to occupy an unspecified room with no intention to create any legal estate or interest (to avoid which, the lodger should be granted the licence only for an unspecified room to be selected- and which may be changed to another room- at the absolute discretion of the owner).

attilathelandlord
10-04-2008, 17:00 PM
Now you are just being awkward with the old legalese Jeffrey!!!

Bel
11-04-2008, 08:21 AM
There's no statutory definition. I'd suggest that a lodger is an occupier given a personal non-assignable licence to occupy an unspecified room with no intention to create any legal estate or interest (to avoid which, the lodger should be granted the licence only for an unspecified room to be selected- and which may be changed to another room- at the absolute discretion of the owner).


Yes, but when the intention of the owner changes, ie. they decide to live elsewhere, i do not believe the lodger remains as a lodger (licencee), unless the LL is very careful.

If so many LLs would use this technique to deprive tenants of their rights; by living there to start with and creating a sham licence agreement, before moving out after a couple of weeks.

For the lodger to remain a licencee; I believe the LL would need to show a service is being provided regularly, such as changing and washing the bedding or make the lodger share a bedroom with another lodger not of their chosing.

jeffrey
11-04-2008, 09:06 AM
True, but it cannot be a lease or tenancy if the premises are not specified- letting one room, without precision, can only be a licence.

Bel
11-04-2008, 11:11 AM
The thrust of my meaning is what happens when the LL wants the lodger out if the LL is no longer resident, and the lodger has been living in his bedroom, undisturbed, and does not have a service provided, or share his room.

In this case, a non-resident LL should persue eviction through the courts if the lodger refuses to go;
simply changing the locks as one might do if still a resident landlord could lead to a claim of illegal eviction.