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chocolatemalteser
31-03-2008, 12:54 PM
A brand new sofa is broken after two years due to large & tall tenant - it has worn out quicker than it would've done with an average sized tenant...is it fair wear and tear or accelerated wear & tear! T wants it replaced, landlord is unkeen of course....what are LL's obligations?

To be fair to the tenant the sofa was probably not bought from Harrods, but still - shd LL have to fork out?

jeffrey
31-03-2008, 13:03 PM
1. Perhaps T had too many chocolate maltesers?
2. "Broken" does not mean "worn out". T is not liable for fair wear and tear, but breaking the sofa is not within that category of reasonable use.
3. T should therefore be liable for replacement cost MINUS an allowance for w&t.
4. Sofa, so good?

jta
31-03-2008, 16:25 PM
4. Sofa, so good?

Enough already!!!!!!!!!!!!!

atearth
31-03-2008, 16:31 PM
In future do not provide furniture when letting properties.

islandgirl
31-03-2008, 20:30 PM
I would love to see how you would prove that it wore out faster! What constitutes a "large & tall tenant"? How can you say it has worn out quicker than it would have done with an average sized tenant? I am not saying you can't ask the tenant to pay but I am fascinated as to how you would justify it and what "expert witnesses" you would call! Please chair any ideas with the rest of us....

domehead
31-03-2008, 20:38 PM
Sofa parting is such suite sorrow,

islandgirl
31-03-2008, 21:34 PM
Perhaps it is the fact that the sofa has "parted" which has led to us all contributing this evening. I must remember to put on my tenancy forms - "average tenants only" - though that would be discrimination I suppose! Anyway off to bed now - suite dreams everyone.

chocolatemalteser
31-03-2008, 21:48 PM
I would love to see how you would prove that it wore out faster! What constitutes a "large & tall tenant"? How can you say it has worn out quicker than it would have done with an average sized tenant? I am not saying you can't ask the tenant to pay but I am fascinated as to how you would justify it and what "expert witnesses" you would call! Please chair any ideas with the rest of us....

It was brand new 18 months ago - that is not the average shelf life of an average sofa

islandgirl
01-04-2008, 08:20 AM
I would think that legally "average" is somewhat like "reasonable" - extremely difficult to quantify...it might be the "average" life of a cheap, basic sofa though agreed not of a very expensive decent one. However how do you prove it? There is no "control" sofa being sat on by an "average" tenant. I am afraid that if I were the tenant I would ask you to prove that it had been damaged by my height / weight before I agreed to contribute and that may be difficult - but that's just me. I suppose the landlord could ask him...

islandgirl
01-04-2008, 10:12 AM
Just to say as a LL if faced by this situation I think I would replace it because I dont think the accelerated wear and tear will hold water. I would buy a nice clean 2nd hand one... they are so cheap now.

jeffrey
01-04-2008, 10:15 AM
Just to say as a LL if faced by this situation I think I would replace it because I dont think the accelerated wear and tear will hold water. I would buy a nice clean 2nd hand one... they are so cheap now.
Take care: furniture safety requirements?

islandgirl
01-04-2008, 21:08 PM
Good point Jeffrey,thanks - I am sure there are some 2nd hand ones around which comply though...failing that buy a cheap one!

P.Pilcher
02-04-2008, 10:32 AM
UInfortunately the cheapo sofa manufacturers do not design their sofas to wear, but to wear out as they want to sell you a new one next season! They go to enormous lengths to design just sufficient strength and fatigue resistance into their products to ensure that with use by average people at average weights, they will not break until a few days after their guarantee has expired. Thus you can be sure that this will not be the case with an overweight tenant who has no care for the furniture anyway because it doesn't belong to him! Renting unfurnished is always the best bet.

P.P.

Wauden
03-04-2008, 13:08 PM
If you join one of the many Freecycle sites on the net, you can get a sofa for free. You can also recycle goods this way. The aim of Freecycle is to reduce landfill, which is a massive problem in the UK and is threatening the Green Belt. Go green!

Incidentally, on a personal note, I do not like fat people sitting on my good chairs at home; I ask them to use the stronger chair!

attilathelandlord
03-04-2008, 17:16 PM
It wasn't the world's fattest man at 85 stone who sat on it was it?

jeffrey
03-04-2008, 17:18 PM
It wasn't the world's fattest man at 85 stone who sat on it was it?
"Let he who is without stones cast the first sin."

attilathelandlord
03-04-2008, 17:22 PM
First coke then stones, what's with the drug stuff this afternoon Jeffrey?!

jeffrey
03-04-2008, 17:36 PM
First coke then stones, what's with the drug stuff this afternoon Jeffrey?!
Stones? I know, it's only rock and roll but I like it...

jeffrey
03-04-2008, 17:38 PM
...and why don't Americans use 'stones'? They have tons/pounds/ounces but they omit the 14-pounder in between.

bagpuss
06-04-2008, 20:55 PM
I thought many Americans were stoned a lot of the time........... they act like they are............

P.Pilcher
06-04-2008, 21:28 PM
And if you procure a replacement sofa from freecycle, make sure it bears labels indicating that it has been treated to be fire retardent. Illegal to use non treated furniture for tenants.

P.P.

Paul_f
06-04-2008, 22:53 PM
Most of these posts should be on "take a break" forum - but seriously - the law takes the view of an "average" person or persons having reasonable use of a property. If the tenant is fat then they know they are more likely to break furniture if they were to plonk down on it without care. It's therefore not wear and tear but damage.

The manufacturers don't as a matter of course make furniture to last as latterly a DFS suite has proved to 'last' but 4/5 years at best(just when you've paid for it) 50% off only £599 for something that looks really good but is crap inside - and sale MUST end Sunday rubbish - but when have they NOT had a sale?. Several springs came out from the back after 2 years and the fabric was worn pretty well not long afterwards. There's only me and my wife (DINKs) and we are only "average" users. I couldn't even offer it to Age Concern as they would have been embarassed to give it to anybody else! It went down the tip.

Since I've now paid a decent price for a good hand-made suite it's different again and has a 10 years guarantee. You get what you pay for. I know I'm chuntering on but I'm sure you get my drift!

chocolatemalteser
07-04-2008, 11:09 AM
Show me a landlord that is going to pay out for high quality goods!